Reza Aslan, an academic at the University of California, was asked ‘Does Islam promote violence?’ when he was interviewed on CNN last September about female genital mutilation in “Muslim countries”.
And luckily for everyone, he nailed exactly why making generalisations about Muslims is so impossible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT3nmw5NjWQ
Blogging Theology 
The inaccuracies in this video are so widespread. Reza is a joke
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freedomfighter1995
The stupidities in your comment are so widespread. freedomfighter1995 is a joke
Actually, Reza makes an excellent point.
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Islam doesn’t promote peace. Yup great answer I totally agree.
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Bobby boy. No one on this blog gives a damn what you think. Just saying.. 😉
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“Islam doesn’t promote peace. Yup great answer I totally agree.”
And neither apparently does Robert Wells
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Patrice said “And neither apparently does Robert Wells”
My response: “There is a time for peace and a time for war”, the time of peace has past the time of war is on us. I have a simple solution for Muslims. Convert you, deport you, put you in prison, or Kill you. I really do not have a preference.
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We know what you are Robert.
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Paul yes and I blame Islam for my Islamaphobia. You know whats funny is that you fools think that it is ISIS and Al Quida that promotes Islamaphobia. When in fact its Muslims like you who take a horrible act of violence committed by your co coreligionists and play the victim. You rock and tree submitters have no shame.
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Bobby boy you are a self confessed troll. What you say has no importance and is not worth anything.
Just saying 🙂
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Robert Wells
You said;
My response: “There is a time for peace and a time for war”, the time of peace has past the time of war is on us.
I say;
US? Who are this US?
The Palestinians who were killed daily and their Churches, Mosques and farmlands being bulldozed by the Zionists terrorists?
The victims of the Paris terror attacks?
The bomb being dropped on civilians by the drones of the US and Britain in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan and other places?
The US could be defined by any one to mean war to another. We hope all peace loving people should condemn and disassociate themselves from injustice, occupation, terrorism on all religions rather than limit it to one religion. Then we will move forward. Blaming one religion has not solved the problem because there are evangelical Christians who install the US president like Bush to follow their policies of war.
Dr. Ben Carson has raised more than million dollars in 24 hours from evangelical Christians when he talked against the whole Islam and Muslims, credit CNN and Christian Amanphour reporting.
Fortunately Dr. Carson turned out to be a liar and a believer in Egyptian ancient religion rather than Christianity and now the conservatives are biting their fingers for having a wrong choice to do their dirty job for them.
Thanks.
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Bobby your overtly simplistic take on both Islam and Muslims is certainly a war alright.
A war on both common sense and decency.
Perhaps if you spent more time dedicated to prayer and the pursuit of piety, you might realise just how fragile and in need of aid people often are.
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Robert Wells said:
My response: “There is a time for peace and a time for war”, the time of peace has past the time of war is on us. I have a simple solution for Muslims. Convert you, deport you, put you in prison, or Kill you. I really do not have a preference.
In response to this rhetoric, I say:
1. Either put up or shut up.
2. If you decide to put up, I urge you to try it on me. I’ll kick your sorry cowardly butt from here to whatever miserable cave you came out of! 😉
3. If you decide to shut up, like most cowards who are all talk, then I suggest you actually educate yourself instead of blinding yourself due to your ignorance.
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“I have a simple solution for Muslims. Convert you, deport you, put you in prison, or Kill you. I really do not have a preference.”
Robert,
Is the irony really so lost on you?
freedomfighter1995,
Would you kindly care to point out said “inaccuracies”?
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Patrice wrote…”obby your overtly simplistic take on both Islam and Muslims…”
That’s right, simple solutions for simple minded people who worship a “simple” god, and listen to and submit to rocks and trees
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Faiz where do you live?
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I live in New York, Bobby boy. Where do you live? 😉
I would love to make a visit if you’re close by! Maybe talk some sense into that decrepit brain of yours…
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Robert said:That’s right, simple solutions for simple minded people who worship a “simple” god, and listen to and submit to rocks and trees.
LOL! As opposed to fanatic Christian blockheads and their man-god hybrid! Three is one but also three…Riiiight!
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LOL nice try Paul try harder lol.
Faiz New York is a big place can you narrow it down a bit like street address. I mean how are you going to “. I’ll kick your sorry cowardly butt ” for trying to convert you if I can’t find you.
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I have a solution to deal with the bin Ladens, the Joseph Konys, the Robert Wells, the KKKs and the ISIS of the world. Put them together one by one and let them chew each other up like the animals they are.
I don’t know how well this will work, but that’s for the world’s leaders to figure out. LOL.
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Robert, you didn’t answer question. Where do you live? Let’s deal with this one question at a time. So, where do you live? Any particular cave I need to look for?
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Faiz still waiting for that address so you can “. I’ll kick your sorry cowardly butt ” when I try to convert you. Or are you like “like most cowards who are all talk,”
BTW Paul how did you like that blank page? Try that again and you will get worse than a blank page.
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I see Bobby simply won’t answer my question. Don’t you get it Bobby? I’m offering to come to you (if you live close by) to talk some sense into you! Lol.
Now, where do you live? Let’s start with country. Do you live in the US? The UK?
And it’s not due to your attempts to “convert” me to your nonsensical, self-contradictory religion. It’s due to your ramblings about killing, deporting or imprisoning Muslims. That is why I suggested that we lock people like you in a room with other fanatics and let you eliminate each other. The world will be a better place without you.
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Faiz of course I wont answer you. I didn’t threaten you. You’re the tough guy who threatened me remember. You’re are going to “kick [my] sorry cowardly butt” if I try to convert you.
So are you going to “put up or shut up”?
.
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You didn’t threaten me, huh? Oh right. You just threatened people like me…other Muslims. You threatened my people with imprisonment, deportation or murder. Hmmm….
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I did no such thing sir. So converting you is a threat? And yes if you where to ” kick [my] sorry cowardly butt” for trying to convert you then yes you would go to prison, and then hopefully get deported. And yes if you where to live your fantasy and join the Calipha then yes I have no problem in my government Killing you. So its a WIN WIN.
So one last time tough guy you going to give me your address.
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Lol, walking back on your fantasies of genocide, huh? So, if I refuse to convert to your idiotic way of life, you would try to imprison me, deport me or kill me. That’s what you said. Now, you’re walking back on that. NOW, you claim that what you meant was that if someone only tried to hurt you for your missionary efforts, only then would you support having them killed as a last resort!
Who’s the tough guy? Certainly not yoy Bobby boy!
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Bobby boy is a self-confessed “troll”. He is tolerated on this blog like the village idiot for anyones amusement.
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So I guess you are now shutting up on your threat. Ok we can move on then.
So western civilized way of life is idiotic to you? I can understand I mean we don’t chop peoples heads off, we don’t sever peoples limbs for stealing, we don’t stone people for adultry, we don’t kill witches, we don’t own slaves and have sex with slave woman… yeah I can see how coming from your Islamic world view this would be idiotic. And YES I DEFINITELY want PEOPLE like YOU who have such views to be DEPORTED. or THROWN IN JAIL, or yes EVEN KILLED if you try to act out your Islamic fantasies.
But since you consider the civilized western way of life to be “idiotic” then why do you live in New York. Please make your hidra to the wonder world of IS
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Brother Paul, I am aware that Bobby boy is just a troll. But engaging trolls can be fun from time to time! Lol.
Bobby, you’re trying to change the subject. When you get embarrassed, that’s what you cowards do. It’s in your nature!
You have proven that you are nothing more than the Christian version of ISIS. You have fantasies of waging a crusade to spread your particular ideology through violence, because you know that reasonable people will not willingly follow it. You are incapable of rational discussion, as your posts show. Sorry to have embarrassed you, but you know you deserve it! 😉
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lol poor bobby
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Does Islam promote violence? The question approaches Islam in an essentialistic way. I don’t believe the traditional understanding of Islam promotes violence but the harsh, black and white view of Wahabi-Salafi Islam DOES. How many of these terrorists strictly follow one of the 4 schools of law? How many of these terrorists are Ashari or Maturidi in creed?
It is true that people project their biases on to the religion they follow. Equally true is that values are shaped by religion. In the case of Jihadists, it is the former.
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never seen anybody handle Robert so well, like Faiz just did! stick around more bro, even if it’s just going to be for the ‘anti -bobby pest(troll ) spray!
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Jazak Allah Khair brother. Yes, I do intend to stick around, inshaAllah. I would love to stick it to these charlatans. But I do also hope to have reasonable discussions. Not with Bobby of course, LOL. But with reasonable people.
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Internet Tuff Guy Faiz wrote…
“Bobby, you’re trying to change the subject. When you get embarrassed, that’s what you cowards do. It’s in your nature!”
My response: The subject was that you where going to “Kick my cowardly butt” but then you chickened out. So looks like you embarrassed yourself.
Internet tuff guy Faiz wrote…
You have proven that you are nothing more than the Christian version of ISIS.
My response:
Why? Because I want head chopping Muslims to be put in jail, deported or killed? So your saying you don’t want that? You’re ok with Head chopping Muslims living next to you in the New York City? BTW France is Rockin -n- Raqqa right now. Let me guess you’re going to scream and shout with Paul Williams that innocent babies and animals oh and don’t forget about the trees being killed.
You wrote…
You have fantasies of waging a crusade to spread your particular ideology through violence, because you know that reasonable people will not willingly follow it.
My response: Where did I ever say anything about a crusade? I simply want Muslims like yourself who are so miserable living in civilized 21st century countries, to live where they will be the happiest. In the 7th century wonderful world of IS.
Internet tuff guy Fiaz wrote…
Sorry to have embarrassed you,
My Response: No need for an apology since you did no such thing.
Well you let me know tuff guy when you want me to come out so you can kick my butt and you can begin your journey to allahs whore house.
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Paul Williams wrote
lol poor bobby
My response: No poor Muslims, better to be a Troll as you say on a Muslim blog then a Muslim in real life.
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Internet tuff guy Fiaz,
If your not an ISIS Muslim (which I doubt there is such a thing) then the only difference between you and ISIS is that you have either yet to hear the rocks and trees telling you to kill people or you have heard them and just have not yet submitted to the rocks and trees.
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Oooh, looks like Bobby is pissed!
Let me break this down for you, since you seem to have your head up a certain part of your anatomy 😉
You were the one who said that you would either convert Muslims, deport them, imprison them or kill them. You made [b]no[/b] distinction between extremists and regular, law-abiding Muslims such as myself and 99% of my fellow Muslims. Therefore, you are the Christian version of ISIS, because ISIS also makes no distinctions between the people it harms, including its number one victims: Muslims.
I said I would kick your cowardly butt (and you have more than proven yourself a coward LOL) if you tried your pathetic crusade on me, because I would defend myself. You can try to “convert” me (if by “convert”, you mean having a civilized discussion), but you would only embarrass yourself because I have done my research, as you can see by my blog. And in the event you then tried to break out your inner Christian ISIS because of your frustration and hatred of Muslims, then yes I would have no qualms against kicking your butt back to the cave you came from and then handing you over to the authorities.
My family has lived in the US for 24 years. We are citizens. We pay our taxes and follow the law. But if you threaten me, my family or my people, then yes, be ready to have butt handed to you. I wouldn’t blame an African-American man for beating the hell out of a KKK redneck who threatened his family, so I don’t think I would deserve any blame if some twisted animal such as yourself ever thought about getting adventurous with my fellow Muslims.
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Bobby, you’re confused, just like any other internet troll. You live in your own fantasy world. Instead of trying to understand people, you take the road of bigotry and ignorance, just like any other prejudiced idiot.
You might want to check out Luke 19:27 before pointing your decrepit finger at others. 😉
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And by the way Bobby, the hadith you are referring to, about rocks and trees telling Muslims to kill people, refers to people who will be fighting against Muslims. Islam allows Muslims to defend themselves against those who would harm them. There is nothing wrong with that, you ninny.
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Did you know that one of my nicknames in high school was “tuff”! Believe it!
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Internet Tuff Guy Fiaz wrote…
You made [b]no[/b] distinction between extremists and regular, law-abiding Muslims such as myself and 99% of my fellow Muslims.
My response: Thats because the only distinction is that ” regular, law-abiding Muslims” have yet to hear and submit to the rocks and trees. To put it another way The only distinction between ISIS Muslims and a ” regular, law-abiding Muslims” is that ” regular, law-abiding Muslims” are the don’t worry we will oppress and kill you later kind of Muslims, where as ISIS Muslims are the “We are oppressing and killing you now” type of Muslims.
Fiaz you dream and fantasize about the things ISIS Muslims are doing, you believe the same thing that ISIS Muslims believe. The only difference, is that ISIS Muslims are not dreaming and fantasizing about it. They are doing it.
Internet tuff guy wrote…
I said I would kick your cowardly butt (and you have more than proven yourself a coward LOL)
My response: Really cause I’m perfectly willing to travel to NEW YORK City and show up at your house if only you would give me your address, which you are un willing to do.
You wrote…
“My family has lived in the US for 24 years. We are citizens. We pay our taxes and follow the law.
My response: News flash, what is the one thing that all Muslims families say about their Jihadi’s children, after they go to allahs paradise. “They were good MUSLIMS”. Like I said the only difference between you and them is that you have yet to submit to the rocks and trees.
Tuff guy Fiaz wrote…
“But if you threaten me, my family or my people, then yes, be ready to have butt handed to you. ”
My response: So converting you is a threat? So putting criminals in jail is a threat is a threat to you and your family? Deporting Muslims who have come to this country to do harm is a threat to you and your family? Killing head chopping suicide bombing Muslims is a threat to “regular, law-abiding Muslims”.
You’re proving my point, that the only difference between ISIS Muslims and “regular, law-abiding Muslims” is that the latter is actually doing what the former only dreams of doing.
Well have fun dreaming about the Caliph and chopping off heads and limbs, about stoning woman to death and having sex with what your right hand posses.
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Bobby you said:
” My response: “There is a time for peace and a time for war”, the time of peace has past the time of war is on us. I have a simple solution for Muslims. Convert you, deport you, put you in prison, or Kill you. I really do not have a preference.”
now you didn’t make any distinction there between ‘head -chopping muslims’ you want to kill (believe me I’ll be glad if you can do that, just take the next flight to your companions in raqqa ) or others….
at least be sincere in your bigotry.
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Still not getting it? Man, this is like trying to teach a monkey how to do math!
“My response: Thats because the only distinction is that ” regular, law-abiding Muslims” have yet to hear and submit to the rocks and trees. To put it another way The only distinction between ISIS Muslims and a ” regular, law-abiding Muslims” is that ” regular, law-abiding Muslims” are the don’t worry we will oppress and kill you later kind of Muslims, where as ISIS Muslims are the “We are oppressing and killing you now” type of Muslims.
Fiaz you dream and fantasize about the things ISIS Muslims are doing, you believe the same thing that ISIS Muslims believe. The only difference, is that ISIS Muslims are not dreaming and fantasizing about it. They are doing it.”
LOL. Like a typical bigot, you presume to know what the “other” is thinking or planning on doing!
Oh, you got me Bobby! How did you know?! You blew the lid off my secret plot to take over America!
No but seriously, you really are an idiot and a bigot. You keep proving it over and over again.
“My response: Really cause I’m perfectly willing to travel to NEW YORK City and show up at your house if only you would give me your address, which you are un willing to do. ”
LOL. You are just hilarious. You have YET to even hint at where you live, despite my repeated requests.
And since you obviously have reading problems, let me repeat what I wrote:
“I said I would kick your cowardly butt (and you have more than proven yourself a coward LOL) if you tried your pathetic crusade on me, because I would defend myself. You can try to “convert” me (if by “convert”, you mean having a civilized discussion), but you would only embarrass yourself because I have done my research, as you can see by my blog. And in the event you then tried to break out your inner Christian ISIS because of your frustration and hatred of Muslims, then yes I would have no qualms against kicking your butt back to the cave you came from and then handing you over to the authorities.”
Did you get that, Bobby? This isn’t about beating one’s chest and proving who is tougher. If you thought that, then you’re more of a child than you let on. 😉
If you’re “perfectly willing” to show up at my house, then it proves a few things about you:
1. That you have nothing better to do (not much of a home life, eh Bobby?).
2. That you hate being embarrassed so badly that you would actually travel to the home of a person you met on the internet just to get revenge (a bit too insecure about ourselves, are we Bobby?).
“My response: News flash, what is the one thing that all Muslims families say about their Jihadi’s children, after they go to allahs paradise. “They were good MUSLIMS”. Like I said the only difference between you and them is that you have yet to submit to the rocks and trees.”
Um, news flash. This is what any misguided fanatic would say, including KKK garbage and of course animals like you. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
The only difference between you and the ISIS thugs, who in your mind, apparently “submit” to rocks and trees (?), is that you submit to a man-god hybrid who called for anyone who refused to serve him to be killed before him (Luke 19:27). I don’t think that puts your in better company. Ouch!
“My response: So converting you is a threat? So putting criminals in jail is a threat is a threat to you and your family? Deporting Muslims who have come to this country to do harm is a threat to you and your family? Killing head chopping suicide bombing Muslims is a threat to “regular, law-abiding Muslims”.”
Um, Bobby! Baby! Try to get your head out of that certain part of your anatomy! When did I say that attempting to “convert” was a threat? Can’t you read? Here is what I said:
“You can try to “convert” me (if by “convert”, you mean having a civilized discussion), but you would only embarrass yourself because I have done my research, as you can see by my blog.”
I am all for civilized discussion, if that’s what you mean by trying to “convert” me. It ain’t gonna happen, but you can certainly try! I’ll even offer you some tea!
The problem is that you do not distinguish between the “criminals” and those who abide by the law. You have proven your unwillingness to do that because of your own vile hatred and bigotry. You represent the classic example of a bigot. Thus, you are no different than the “criminals” you want to arrest, deport or kill. You belong with them.
“You’re proving my point, that the only difference between ISIS Muslims and “regular, law-abiding Muslims” is that the latter is actually doing what the former only dreams of doing.
Well have fun dreaming about the Caliph and chopping off heads and limbs, about stoning woman to death and having sex with what your right hand posses.”
LOL, you’re such a confused bigot. All bigots are! The longer you keep at it, the bigger hole you dig yourself in. You might want to see a psychiatrist Bobby baby. I am worried about you. You really should be on anti-psychotic medication.
Well anyway, have fun dreaming about your savior’s second coming and the bloodbath to follow. I guess you could call it “Bloodbath & Beyond” 😉
“But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me” (Luke 19:27).
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“That’s right, simple solutions for simple minded people who worship a “simple” god, and listen to and submit to rocks and trees”
Bobby your religion commands you to love you G-d with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength as well as to love your neighbour as yourself. Jesus explained in the parable of the good Samaritan, that ones neighbour did not simply mean the person from the same race or culture as your own but rather any human being who is in need of aid, especially so if you see them across the way.
Seems pretty simple to me. What are you not doing it?
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Robert “Pussycat” Wells promotes violence
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Robert Wells
You said;
“But if you threaten me, my family or my people, then yes, be ready to have butt handed to you. ”
My response: So converting you is a threat? So putting criminals in jail is a threat is a threat to you and your family? Deporting Muslims who have come to this country to do harm is a threat to you and your family? Killing head chopping suicide bombing Muslims is a threat to “regular, law-abiding Muslims”.
You’re proving my point, that the only difference between ISIS Muslims and “regular, law-abiding Muslims” is that the latter is actually doing what the former only dreams of doing.
Well have fun dreaming about the Caliph and chopping off heads and limbs, about stoning woman to death and having sex with what your right hand posses.
I say;
You Robert Wells is dreaming like your Christian mentor John Calvin who ordered people who do not believe in Christianity to have their head chopped off and burned according to the command of scary hybrid God-Man at the same time who will not allow anyone who do not believe in him to live peaceful.
That is why Christians chopped peoples heads i.e. Muslims and Jews heads were chopped off by the Christians and when the Christians finished that, they turned on themselves and started chopping the hell of their head off till the agnostic, liberals and atheists in the West managed to fight back and overcome the Christians and stopped them.
The law and order, freedom of religion in the West is through the courtesy of liberals, agnostic, and atheists who fought the Christians and managed to win power otherwise no one would have been allowed in the Christian West including Christians themselves and Robert Wells that is your mentality as you start to talk about deportation.
To your disappointment, your thought of not living with “others” will not happen and you will die with hatred and your pain will send you to your grave because you cannot achieve total extermination and annihilation of the “others” as your Christian ancestors did.
You should have prayed to have born in the era where your Christians exterminated everybody including themselves, so that you will be happy but you are not happy today to be living among “others” you cannot kill and exterminate like your Christian ancestors.
Few years ago, Roman Catholic Christians and Mormons were beating and killed in the USA by people like Robert Wells and we thank God today law and order has prevented him from doing so. Mr. Wells would have killed Muslims if he gets the chance as people have been burning Mosques at night to escape law and order.
Thanks.
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Intellect said:
“The law and order, freedom of religion in the West is through the courtesy of liberals, agnostic, and atheists who fought the Christians and managed to win power otherwise no one would have been allowed in the Christian West including Christians themselves and Robert Wells that is your mentality as you start to talk about deportation.”
That is absolutely true. I always laugh when I see pathetic Christians like Bobby try to take credit for how much the western world has advanced. Christianity had nothing to do with it! It was the Enlightenment and the scientific revolution which advanced the west. Christianity was holding it back.
Even America was founded as a secular republic, and not as a Christian nation, as the Republican liars would have you believe.
Bobby is one of those frustrated fanatics who is just biding his time for when he and his fellow nutjobs can relaunch the Inquisition and Crusades, which is ironic given his accusations against Muslims, LOL. Even American law enforcement considers the threat of domestic militias as much more severe than any threat from so-called “Islamic” terrorists. The Christian terrorists are the biggest threat to America.
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Really interesting brothers! Haven’t laughed this hard in ages. My day is surely made.
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http://www.salon.com/2015/11/14/our_terrorism_double_standard_after_paris_lets_stop_blaming_muslims_and_take_a_hard_look_at_ourselves/
Here is a really good article from Salon, exposing the double standards and ignorance of morons like Bobby.
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Chocoboy, I’m glad that made your day!
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By the by brother Williams, would you mind publishing my first official article on this very blog. It is meant to serve as a refutation to Sam Shamoun’s claim (in a discussion on this site) that Jesus forgave sins and hence must have been God.
The highlights are rather simple. The article seeks to create a link between the oft recited ‘your sins have been forgiven’ verses and the less recited ‘forgive them father for they know not what they do’ as well as forgotten ‘I can of my own accord do nothing’. Additionally, it discusses role of the disciples who we are told forgave sins in the name of Jesus.
Interestingly, the ending pips the sincere christian and challenges him to clear a double standard. ‘How does Jesus who admits ignorance regarding the hour because he (as Charles Wesley explained) ’emptied himself of ALL but love’ suddenly transcends into the sphere of divinity because he forgives sins?’ the article had challenged. ‘No good answer will ever be given’ the author is sure.
Everything is still a work in progress however. Several problems have hindered the completion (the greatest being the recent loss of half my sources with the corruption of my invaluable drive). Optimist however as I am, I strongly believe it will soon be over. The onus is on Paul Williams to help spread it
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If the answer is no, how then do Muslims rationalise the sunnah of Muhammad?
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what is there to ‘rationalise’? Unclear what you are asking
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Clarification: how would you Muslims commenting here rationalise Muhammad’s life/legacy? (Allowing for broad spectrum of interpretation)
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Muhammad’s sunnah is quite obviously full of violent narratives. If Islam is not violent, then how does one rationalise Muhammad’s sunnah (in that he is the perfect example)?
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God’s sunnah in the Bible is obviously full of violent narratives, ditto Jesus’s story too in the NT.
If Christianity is not violent, then how does one rationalise God’s/Jesus’s sunnah (in that he is the perfect example)?
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Mark are you seriously suggesting that Jesus did not use violence on an industrial scale in the Bible?
Are you seriously suggesting that he is a “perfect” example to follow?
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Well, I guess a simple answer to compare would be that the Old Testament narratives are never communicated as a “perfect example” for Jews or Christians to follow.
Now, would you mind answering my question?
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To be clear, there seem to be two persons using the name “Mark” on this blog. I’m NOT the one who has posted the preceding comments on this thread, but I am the one who – among other things – had a lengthily discussion with Eric here: https://bloggingtheology.net/2015/11/08/christians-the-bible-and-the-messiah. In the last days, I’ve also commented here (https://bloggingtheology.net/2015/11/16/and-now-for-some-light-entrainment/) and here (https://bloggingtheology.net/2015/10/25/3344/).
To avoid further confusion between the two, I will change my name to Marcus.
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Mark “Well, I guess a simple answer to compare would be that the Old Testament narratives are never communicated as a “perfect example” for Jews or Christians to follow.” Lol.
Mark, I think you should learn to differentiate. Are you seriously saying there is no form of legal violence for Jews or Christians based on biblical arguments? Seriously?
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Actually Paul in 2Timothy 3:16 teaches that the Old Testament is a very useful source of examples to follow!
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Christianity is celebrating the torturous murder of an innocent human being as God’s ultimate expression of love! John 3 16
Christians are “redeemed by the blood of Christ”!
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Mark seemingly only cares about violence in other religions but ignores it in his own.
Classic double standards.
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OK, so I guess no answer is forthcoming. I can only assume that the Paul and Burhanuddin1 are unable or unwilling to explain to those reading how one can rationalise the violence of Muhammad’s life with the claim that Islam is not violent. I find that extremely disappointing on a number of levels.
To finish my engagement here,
Burhanuddin1: No, only that there is no narrative that teaches Jews or Christians that the events mentioned are a “perfect example” as Muslims are told with Muhammad.
Paul: “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness”. No mention of a “perfect example” to emulate in that text. You would need to demonstrate that this verse is somehow teaching a positive attribution to the violent narratives in the OT (which of course is impossible without committing gross eisegesis) as opposed to, say. those texts being a point of rebuke or correction. Anyhow, it seems odd that you appeal to a text that in any other discussion you would dismiss as forgery, and somehow compare that to the description of your prophet as a perfect example.
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Yes it is a forgery but you accept it as inspired word of God so it is perfectly correct to cite it to expose your hypocrisy.
The passage in 2 Tim says all the Old Testament is usable for teaching and training in righteousness (!) And as an example to follow.
Ok the word ‘perfect ‘ is not there but that is irrelevant. Throughout history Christians have used these OT narratives to justify genocide and murder (eg in the USA against the indigenous population)
Your failure to confront the violence in the Bible is typical of fundamentalist Christians. And do not forget that Jesus commits genocide on an industrial scale in the last NT book, or maybe you have not read it?
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Mark, as I said one has to differentiate. Between legal and illegal violence.
Between aggression and defense. Like in all legal systems, all religions, all walks of life.
That’s how the “violence” of Muhammad’s life is rationalized with the claim that Islam is “not violent”.
That’s common sense and that it has to be pointed out seems ridiculous.
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Mark.
Prophets Moses and Mohammed, David and most prophets of God had populations to protect unlike Jesus Christ who has no population to protect and is under the control of the Romans and or Greek government and therefore it easy for him to say “turn the other cheek” which I personally think it is not a command from God.
If Jesus had populations to protect like women, children, old, weak, the sick, etc. will and the enemy constantly wants to exterminate and annihilate them by attacking them, will Jesus then sit down and follow his stupid command to “turn the other cheek”? without fighting back? and let his girls raped? and his population finished?
Mark, is that a perfect example in this scenario to “turn the other cheek” commanded by Jesus Christ?
The “turn the other cheek” is a bad command and every religion, not Christianity alone has forgiveness to the enemy only if the enemy will not attack. But it is a crime and a sin to sit down and “turn the other cheek” and let your girl be raped knowing very well you can fight the rapist and probably overpower him.
EVERY RELIGION WILL MOSTLY ADVOCATE FORGIVENESS IF THE ENEMY STOPPED ATTACKING AND WILL NOT ATTACK AGAIN BUT NOT ONLY CHRRISTIANITY. PUT THIS IN YOUR HEAD. I CAN GIVE YOU EXAMPLES UPON REQUEST.
Even under Roman control, Jesus did violence by calling poor people dogs and insulting people here and there and ransacking tables. Is this violence by Jesus a perfect example to follow? Mark you can answer this question if you are sincere.
Prophet Mohammed and Moses and all prophets of God are perfect example to follow. If I have population like my wife and children and they are attacked to be raped, InshaAllah I will fight back and try to save them from being killed. That is a perfect example to follow than to turn the other cheek and let your population(family) being raped and killed. Turning the other cheek will be coward, wicked, sin and crime against humanity.
Thanks.
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Mark,
As others have already pointed out, you exhibit the classic Christian hypocrisy that we are all so used to. First of all, who are you to judge the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) when your Bible is FULL of horrific stories of massacres, bloodbaths and even infanticide? You said that those laws were not “perfect”. Well, I say that is the understatement of the year! Forget “perfect”. Those laws were just Satanic. So, who are you to talk about Islam and violence?
Also, you asked a vague question about the Sunnah of Muhammad (peace be upon him) and violence. What about it? Can you provide specific examples? Go ahead and Google them from sources like Answering Islam or JihadWatch. We will all wait here for you. 😉
Third, even if you try to dismiss the “Old Testament” examples of violence, you are not in the clear because the “New Testament” is NOT a peaceful book, as apologists like you claim. The Biblical Jesus spoke of violence in a few places:
Luke 19:27 – “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.”
Luke 22:36 – “He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
Matthew 10:34 – “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”
Finally, as all of us know, the so-called “peaceful” Christians of the 1st-century were expecting the Second Coming in their lifetimes. They believed that in that time, the unbelievers would meet a bloody judgment. That’s not exactly a “peaceful” outlook!
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I think Mark is a little out his depth here.
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“I think Mark is a little out his depth here. ”
I wholeheartedly agree! LOL.
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Did anyone else hear about this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/muslim-hugs-paris-video_564d12a5e4b08c74b73453a4
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nice!
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I would be happy to discuss OT violence or even the (misuse) of Jesus’ words if, in fact, we had Christians or Jews committing murder and terrorism on a daily basis AND appealed to the texts you mentioned as justification.
But what we are facing is an Islamic problem. It is Muslims doing these things based on their interpretation of the sunnah. I was seeking clarification from you moderates.
Thank you but handful for explaining that you believe Muhammad’s violence is justified because you believe it was legal or in defense.
Now, would you therefore emulate your prophet and do the very same things since he is the perfect example?
And can you define what is “defence” so I know when to expect Muslims to fight?
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‘I asked you to provide specific examples from the Sunnah by using your usual research technique (i.e. Googling). You didn’t bring any such examples. Until you do, your question is vague. Why do I get the feeling that this is intentional?’
Indeed. Well said. Mark is being a little sly…
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Mark,
It’s no surprise that your response is so evasive and illogical. The fact is that Jews and Christians ARE committing daily acts of violence around the world and using the Bible to justify it (Zionist Jews and Christians are a perfect example). Just because you are stuck in your own little bubble does not change this fact. I can refer you to a nice blog written by a Christian who has personally witnessed the daily acts of violence that Palestinians suffer from extremists. Would you like that?
I asked you to provide specific examples from the Sunnah by using your usual research technique (i.e. Googling). You didn’t bring any such examples. Until you do, your question is vague. Why do I get the feeling that this is intentional?
It’s interesting how you try to claim that Jesus’ words in the Bible are “misused”. Oh how convenient! But it doesn’t seem to occur to you that perhaps the acts of violence done in the name of the Sunnah of Muhammad (peace be upon him) could also be the result of “misuse”. There goes that classic Christian hypocrisy again. LOL!
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Slyness is the hallmark of Christian apologists.
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Mark, you should read this:
http://www.juancole.com/2014/05/resistance-children-fundamentalism.html
The western media hardly ever reports on the atrocities committed by the “Lord’s Resistance Army”, which is a Christian…that’s right, a CHRISTIAN terrorist organization which has killed and enslaved tens of thousands of people, including women and children. And yes, it justifies its atrocities and barbarism by appealing to the…(drum roll)…the BIBLE! Ding, ding, ding!
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Mark
You said;
But what we are facing is an Islamic problem. It is Muslims doing these things based on their interpretation of the sunnah. I was seeking clarification from you moderates.
I say;
When Dr. Ben Carson made an insulting comments to all Muslims, within 24 hours he raise over a million dollars from evangelical Christians(CNN Christian Amampour reporting). The creation of isis and daily killings in Iraq, Syria, Palestine is the by evangelical Christian Zionists and some(not all Jews) Jews.
They voted and supported war in Iraq and now actively supporting war in IRAN with the same lies Bush and Blair made to attack Iraq. Tony Blair admitted a couple of weeks ago that the war in Iraq created isis.
A British Jewish Zionist who happens to be Parliamentarian resigned as a Zionist in the floor of British Parliament and now dedicated all his efforts to help Palestinians and other injustices in the world because he realized it is evil and sin to commit massacre as Israel did with the support of evangelical Christian Zionists by killing babies in the UN compound recently and continue to do it today because of Biblical passage.
The founder of Israel and his son and most Jews have realized the evil and daily killings of Palestinians because of Biblical interpretations and resigned as Zionist but now supporting the Palestinians and are good friends to the Palestinians and God bless them(Miko, Blumenthal etc.)
Tariq Aziz, a practising Iraqi Christian was vice president of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and there was law and order and so no isis or any interpretation of scripture to massacre anyone. What prevents extremist Christians in USA to use their Bibles to harm people like how they burn blacks, kill Catholics, persecute and kill Mormons etc. is law and order and still some of them do kill people in black Churches recently, shootings in a cinema theatre recently and previously David Koresh, Jim Jones, Timothy Mark Vey, Warren Jeff, KKK, black panther etc. and so many do harm people in the name of Christianity.
The evangelicals must stop war on other countries.
Thanks.
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Robert Wells
You said;
“I have a simple solution for Muslims. Convert you, deport you, put you in prison, or Kill you. I really do not have a preference.”
I say;
CNN’s Jason Carol has just put a good documentary on how poor Jews were escaping prosecution in Europe to the USA and the US lawmakers sent them back to where they came from, just to be killed in Nazi concentration camp. It is unfortunate for people like Wells to behave as such when considering the fact that his grand fathers also emigrated to the US with boats and ships.
In the same piece, Catholics from Italy were beaten and persecuted by the Protestant Christians. The Japanese were put in concentration camp in the USA.
This land USA is for the native Indians who were killed and persecuted by the early Christian settlers and Robert Wells have seen nothing wrong with that.
I bet, law and order is holding Robert Wells back, he would have killed a Muslim by now considering his hatred, anger, and ignorance about Muslims.
Some hard core like him managed to cause arson on Mosques here and there and attacked innocent Muslim women here and there but the law and order is keeping them at bay,
The evangelical Christians want a Presidential candidate like Dr. Ben Carson who will always insult all Muslims and the latest is comparing Muslims like Rabid dog and this Doctor is the favourite of the evangelical Christians to do their dirty job for them.
Fortunately, the Doctor is a liar and not a true Christian but believed in ancient Egyptian religion. The evangelical Christians especially in the US must stop supporting wars on other peoples land to spread their religion in refugee camps and stop fanning war on Iran as they caused hardships to Iraqi citizens by supporting Bush and Blair war there.
Blair admitted the war created isis a couple of days ago and when Saddam Hussein was president his vice was a Christian and there was law and order and no isis no one can interpret any scripture be it Bible or Quran to attack anyone.
All these violene finds its doorsteps to the evangelical Christians. Muslims lived centuries upon centuries with their Christian and Jewish brothers and nothing of this magnitude happened until the Bush Blair war supported by the evangelical Christians and now they are pushing for war with Iran and it can be seen on the republican campaign were every presidential candidate has to indicate his willingness to abrogated the peaceful deal with Iran and replace it with violent one.
God help us from anyone who wants violence be it isis, book, or any Christian who want war but not peace.
Thanks.
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correction.
Jews were escaping persecution
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Jeb Bush, Presidential Candidate(Republican): Prioritise the processing of Christian Syrian refugees rather than Muslims.
Useless presidential candidate than his brother. The Syrian Christians lived in Syria for centuries back to Jesus time and if Muslims took your wicked stance, no Christian would have been in Syria by now.
His poll is low and he wants more support from evangelical Christians.
Dr. Carson and Rubio had their insults on Muslims as well. They will all not win the nominee.
Do anything bad to Muslims and you will get support to US evangelical Christians and that is were the problem of the world is.
Thanks.
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Faux, I’m not sure why you need to assume so much about me. Nonetheless I wasn’t interested in debating the hermeneutics of the Bible (a red herring which you seem to ironically miss as illogical for all your complaint against me) nor Middle East politics.
I was merely wondering how those here rationalise the sunnah of Muhammad with the claim that is Islam is peaceful. I’m still waiting. It seems to me that those commenting here don’t seem able to offer an answer. All I’ve received is a vague comment about defense, so I asked for some kind of definition on a practical level for that claim.
Why not answer the question for those of us disgusted by the actions of certain Muslims and the documents used as justification
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Mark
May be you are new to this blog or pretending to be new, for we have answered this questions in detail over and over with passages and hadith to indicate any command in the Quran is self defence and there are passages just after or before any fight passage to ask Muslims to stop if the aggressor and or the attacker stops.
In is there in the passages in the Quran if you are sincere to read it with open mind and I do not need to explain it to you it is clear.
It said “Allah does not love an aggressor”. “If the aggressor stops fighting you, then stop fighting him”, “If the polytheist seek your help, then help him to a safe place so that he may hear the word of Allah”, “If you kill one person, it is as if you kill the whole of mankind” etc. and many more warning not to be an aggressor but to defend yourself.
So what isis is doing is un Islamic if one reads the Quran and Sunnah with open mind.
Jesus said in the New Testament but not the Old but the NEW, NEW, NEW TESTAMENT to “slay anyone who do not believe in him” and that is what the Zionist Christians are doing in the middle east by imposing war through their presidential candidates to spread Christianity by force and in the refugee camps and help Israel to exterminate and annihilate the Palestinians and if you are a sincere person you should be disgusted by the actions of the evangelical Christians as well. It is equally disgusting as isis or any terror attack.
Thanks.
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@ the Mark who wrote:
Muhammad’s sunnah is quite obviously full of violent narratives. If Islam is not violent, then how does one rationalise Muhammad’s sunnah (in that he is the perfect example)?
We contextualise it. So for example, Prophet Muhammad and the early Musllims attacked the caravans of the Quraish – this was a group whch had began hostilities against Muslims. This is something that is a state-level decision (Prophet Muhammad was the ruler of a state).
The same applies to the wars Prophet Muhammad was involved in against the pagan Meccan aggressors. Again, this is a state level decision.
Thus the violence in the Seerah is not a Sunnah I or any Muslim here can involve ourselves in:
We aren’t state rulers.
We aren’t (thank God) being attacked by another state.
Peace
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Thanks yahyasnow.
France, Russia, US, Mali etc. are attacking isis in Syria, not in France to protect their citizens, so Muslims in our prophet time as a state in Medina can attack the Quraish to get their stolen property back and to protect their citizens.
JazaKAllah Khairan
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So Mark is once again avoiding having a rational conversation. Somehow, I am not surprised. Rationality and reason seem to be anathema to Christian apologists.
Mark, you still haven’t provided specific examples from the Sunnah, as I asked. I don’t know why it is so difficult for you. I’m sure you have Googled this before ;).
Until you provide specific examples, you are just blowing hot air (another characteristic you seem to share with many apologists).
Most importantly though, it needs to be pointed out that Muslims do not owe you any explanations. Who do you think you are, sitting high and mighty in judgment on us? Do you think we even care what you think about Islam? Hell no! You forget your place, buddy. You are not the judge and jury. We owe you nothing, so stop pretending like your opinion counts for anything.
I see you are now running away from discussing the “red herring” of Christian and Jewish terrorism. How convenient! Of course, it’s not a surprise. Christian apologists run from anything that makes their religion look bad when a non-Christian applies the same double standards that Christians use so often to attack Islam. Do you acknowledge that your ignorance has betrayed you? Do you acknowledge that Christians and Jews have committed and are still committing barbaric atrocities around the world? Yes or no?
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Yahya.
Thank you. Can you clarify: are you suggesting that Muhammad only ever acted in self defense against aggressors?
Fiaz.
You come across as hostile and arrogant, not withstanding your gross oversimplification and generalisations about non Muslims. I don’t see any reason to engage with you.
And frankly, it is frightening that you think Muslims have nothing to answer for
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LOL, yes Mark, run away from another conversation, as you hypocrite Christians usually do.
Still no examples from the Sunnah? Hmmm…
Speaking of arrogance, does anyone else see the irony of Mark’s accusations? What’s more arrogant than sitting in judgment expecting Muslims “to answer for” the acts of others. I guess Mark really thinks that Muslims have to answer to him and other non-Muslims every time some “Muslim” does something bad. But I will wager that he will not expect the same from Christians every time organizations like the Lord’s Resistance Army or the KKK or the Aryan Nations kill or enslave anyone who does not agree with their perverted views. Yup, nothing unusual there!!!
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Mark
Your said;
And frankly, it is frightening that you think Muslims have nothing to answer for
I say;
Muslims answer for what? to whom? You? You must be joking. What have we done? Terrorism?
You forgot the Zionist Christians and some(not all Jews) Jews massacring of babies recently in the United Nations shelter in Gaza? Through their Biblical interpretations?
You forgot a White supremacists Christian recent shooting in black Church to massacre the black Christian congregation?
You forgot a White supremacist Christian recent shooting in a cinema theatre and massacred a lot of people in the USA?
You forgot some brainwashed white Christians youth shootings in schools(many) in the USA?
You forgot an atheist who was caught in the USA trying to persecute Muslims and law and order dealt with him? and if there was law and order in Iraq and Syria and Libya, there would have been no isis and the conservative evangelical Christians voted for the war in Iraq and now trying to push for another war with Iran and any republican candidate who says he will drop peace with Iran and replace it with violence his polls goes high?
You forgot when the Christians persecuted Muslims and Jews and exterminated them and turn to exterminate each other(Christians Catholics, Protestants, Mormons etc.)? and the atheist agnostics etc. stopped them?
You forgot when Jesus Christi said in the New Testament that “bring my enemy and murder him in cold blood in front of me”?
If there is something to answer it is the Christians who have so many atrocities to answer. When the Christian crusaders were going for a kill the march and sing a song like “onward Christian soldiers” and kkk has cross of Jesus Christ on their cloths and burn a cross before hanging a poor black.
You have to answer for all this atrocities. Spain has started compensating for Jews by giving them citizenship and it was announced by the government of Spain to pay for their crime against humanity in trying to exterminate and annihilate others.
I or any Muslim has not done anything to any one. It is issis or any Muslims who harm someone, he has something to answer for and not me or any Muslims who is minding his business to work and cater for his family.
We can only refer people to our scripture to read where it says;
“Allah does not love an aggressor”. “If the aggressor stops fighting you, then stop fighting him”, “If the polytheist seek your help, then help him to a safe place so that he may hear the word of Allah”, “If you kill one person, it is as if you kill the whole of mankind” etc. and many more warning not to be an aggressor but to defend yourself.
We thank God for the law and order, some Christians like Robert Wells and probably Mark as well would have repeated what their ancestors did to Muslims and Jews by exterminating and annihilating them and refuse their ship load entry to the USA and return to Germany just be killed in holocaust.
Some managed to escape law and order and cause arsons to Mosques and attacked some poor Muslims ladies who are minding their business. I am happy, Mayors, Politicians and ordinary people are willing to support the Muslims against this haters like Robert Wells and Mark.
CNN played the documentary of Jews being returned to Germany then by haters like Robert Wells and Mark, just to be killed in the Nazi concentration camp and now the republicans want to do the same on Muslims by separating Muslims and Christians and grant only the Christians entry and courtesy Jeb Bush.
These Christians were with Muslims in the Middle East for centuries and if Muslims had acted the same way, you would not have found a single Christian is Iraq or Syria.
God help us from ignorance and hatred.
Thanks
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Just to add, many Christian missionaries try to undermine some of the social media responses which distance ISIS’ murders from Islam (by referencing Quran 5:32). Missionaries try to claim this Verse was only applicable to the Jews. This does not seem to be the case.
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@Mark
It will be easier for you tell me what you think (if anything) was not self-defence and then we can look into it
Thanks.
Peace
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