hate? lol Nabeel is a Christian missionary whose whole life it seems is dedicated to attacking Islam and Muslims – often with outrageous lies. You don’t care about that of course.
Well I cannot honestly say that I have seen where he has lied or disseminated misinformation about Islam.
In his defence, my own experience on your blog has been eye-opening since your Muslim commenters seem unable to articulate any meaningful argument for something as basic as tawhid. In fact, a search of your blog returns exactly four posts with the label “tawhid” none of which actually describe its particulars.
The point is that it is difficult for me to take seriously the charge that anyone is lying or spreading misinformation about Islam when your own blog and army of Muslim commenters won’t – or can’t – even form a coherent argument for the tawhid. If you guys won’t tell us the particulars of your faith, then it is irrational to say that others are lying when they have to try and, objectively, figure things out for themselves and come up with a different interpretation.
See what I mean? I ask you a simple question about why you think your objection is so phenomenal and you accuse me of trolling – next you’ll accuse me of attacking Islam.
As rabbi Immanuel Schochet said, there has been so much war and killing since the arrival of Jesus p and much of it was done in his name!
For people of Nabeel’s belief, have you thought whether killings, rapes and other huge sins stopped during the 31-33 years you believe Jesus p was on this earth? If not why not, after all this evil would have taken place during the presence of Jesus whom you believe to be divine..
You ask about Nabeel’s misinformation. Great, let me ask you to look into a couple of matters and then I can certainly furnish you with a few more:
And check this one out where Nabeel Qureshi is shamelessly misusing this Verse in the aftermath of the horrific Paris attack (Nabeel has a habit of misusing tragedies and human suffering for the purpose of attacking Islam)
“… the brightest light stepped into the deepest darkness …” This sheds a light on the very very strong grecoroman gnostic roots of Gentile Christianity
I watched the first only though and did not really see how bruv Nabeel misrepresented anything. The problem you have is that if we cannot take the Quran at face value, then why should we assume that it is divine truth?
What I mean is that if you have to reference extra-Quranic material to interpret Quranic revelation, then the extra-Quranic material is vastly more important than the Quran. In this case, Surah 5:32 when read at face value and approached objectively one has little choice but to agree with Nabeel’s interpretation.
Think of it this way; if all the hadith and other traditions were lost, and only the Quran remained, would investigators read that Surah and take it the same way as the hadith? I think not. This leads to more problems – if human interpretation is necessary to give meaning to Quranic verses, why should I accept the interpretations of your sources over Nabeel’s? Such an approach leaves us with the notion that GOD cannot impart understanding to humans – even with HIS direct word – without human intercession.
I hope you can see the problem that you have – there’s no reason to view Nabeel’s interpretation as less valid than anyone else’s.
As for Chomski – I agree that there is some of that going on (terrorism is a response to western policies) – but if it was only that then you have to ask why SE Asians did not carry out terrorism against the west when the US and France were carpet bombing them?
For people of Nabeel’s belief, have you thought whether killings, rapes and other huge sins stopped during the 31-33 years you believe Jesus p was on this earth?
Maybe you can shed light on this issue – Paul won’t tell me the point of this objection. What point are you guys making when you say – and I paraphrase – “the world is still a lousy place after JESUS”?
“Paul won’t tell me the point of this objection. What point are you guys making when you say – and I paraphrase – “the world is still a lousy place after JESUS”?”
the point is very obvious. Nabeel talks of a great light coming into this world and changing it forever. But it does not look very changed.
You are not a fool, neither are you stupid or idiot. I repeat you are not but David Wood and Nabil Quraish are fools, idiots and stupid. Why did I say so?
If verse 5:32 is for the Jews ONLY and ALONE as you want us to believe, then why was it in the Quran? Why was it in the Quran at all? Why was it repeated in the Quran?
The verse did not say “We ordained to the Jews only and alone”. Any one who interpret it that way is a fool and idiot.
If I warned my younger son by saying.
———————
Son, I have warned your elder brother not to kill anyone except for defence, but son, if some one attacks you and is trying to kill you fight him back and if you realize he is an armed robber and is bend on killing you and your family then during the struggle between you and him kill him in self defence if you have the chance.
———————
Does that means that killing in self defence is applicable to only my elder son? not my applicable to my younger son? only a stupid person with no brain will think so.
This is the verse from the Quran;
It does not need interpretation and commentary from anyone. It is clear unless one is stupid.
//
Quran 5:32
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
//
The above have left an option for the children of Israel to kill for the corruption don in the land. So what are they talking about? Wood and Nabeel except being fools who do not want to attend school and learn Arabic and learn Islamic theology and get good degrees in it before attacking Islam.
Non Muslims like a Christian John Esposito of Georgetown university, Lesley Hazelton, Karyn Armstrong and many non Muslim Islamic scholars who learnt and speak Arabic and research Islam in academic circles have interpreted it differently than these stooges(Nabeel and Wood).
Dr. James White is not a fool and will not interpret the verse like Wood and Nabeel. It is no wonder that David Wood has brainwashed Nabeel Quraish to the point that he(Nabeel) sees him(David Wood) in dream leading him to heaven.
And respectful Christians like Ken Temple deeply believed that and read this stupid book of Nabeel. Dr. James White has really shown that he is very intelligent and will not take this nonsense.
When he talks of a great light coming into this world and changing it forever, he probably means it not coming into this world and not changing it forever at the same time.
Easy.
I’m loath to deem those who view things differently as fools, idiots and stupid, yet I appreciate your forthrightness.
I strongly doubt that the non-Muslim scholars you cite would have studied the Quran without reference to the traditions. I, therefore, still would maintain that a problem remains with any objective interpretation of the passage alone.
But I think that we both agree that the verse is open to interpretation – it does not specifically say that the teaching applies only to Jews but there is no reason to think that it applies to any group other than the Jews.
Dirk I understand very well. By “accepting that such a being exists outside of time” you mean “not accepting that such a being exists outside of time” at the same time.
Easy.
Thanks. We are all learning and as people of faith, no matter what faith, we must be truthful. I differentiated between you and Dr. White on one hand and Nabeel and Wood on the other hand.
Dr. White of late has decided to be objective and he must be commended for that. The reason why I used stupid and fools for David Wood and Nabeel Quraish is that it has been established with facts, just like the fake “ex-Muslims” like Ergun Carner, Walid Shoebat, Aayan Ali, Irshad Manji and many more who deliberately tells lies to Christians about Islam to get rich is the hallmark of Nabeel Quraish trained by David Wood.
Such people must be exposed with regards to their lies because they are not good to both Muslims or Christians and they want to put hate among us.
I treated you and Dr. White differently because I do not hate Christians but I hate lies and a deliberate liar like Nabeel Quraish. If he does not repent from such lies, fire is waiting for him according to both the Bible and the Quran.
Back to topic.
Verse 5:32 is telling Muslims about what Allah commanded the Children of Israel “not to do” and “what to do”. It did not say the command is “only’ for the children of Israel “alone”.
My question was;
Why was the same command repeated in the Quran? I brought a scenario about what can be commanded to an elder son to be used as a reminder to a younger son.
I then said only a stupid person will say a repeated command from a father reminding the younger son of the same command he made for an elder son is applicable to the elder son alone but not the younger son.
Any rational person will know for sure that a repeated command from a past generation is also applicable to the newer generation it is been addressed. So verse 5;32 is not for the children of Israel alone but for all humanity and the Quran has similar commands from the original people addressed to we the younger generations. It is applicable to us all.
There are so many Islamic scholars including many non-Muslims and sometimes Christians who are Islamic scholars who had studied, researched and teach Islamic studies in higher academic Institutions. The first thing they do is to learn Arabic and then Islamic History, fiq, aqeedah, Nahw, science of hadith and so many modules.
These scholars, if even non-Muslims, because of their independent years of research about Islam and will not want to taint their research always come out with Arabic interpretation of their findings and not rely on any interpretation or any commentary.
The commentaries are some scholars observations and some can be overwritten but others cannot but verse 5:32 is clear that it not for the children of Israel alone but for all humanity
Mark is a smart guy. Using one’s intellect is the same as thinking very well but it does not mean it is the same person changing names. Wait a minute. It is 2 persons 1 being(human being).
It could be like 3 Persons 1 God(Divine being). So Mark, it should not surprise you. I am not intellect but thinkverywell.
Any rational person will know for sure that a repeated command from a past generation is also applicable to the newer generation it is been addressed.
Interesting points.
I’m not entirely convinced that the it is a generational issue – it’s more a question of revelation to specific peoples. The Old Testament is regarded as a revelation to – and only to – the Jews. Non-Jewish groups were not required to keep Jewish laws or adhere to Jewish beliefs. So I do think that there is room to doubt the universality of 5:32.
Not that adhering to it is a bad thing – it’s a good thing!
You said
Same long winded comments and with poor grammar. I’m betting u are the same person.
I say;
I am not the only one making mistakes here. Even Robert Wells who claimed to be a White living in the West and has English as his first language will be corrected several times here. Many others do mistakes due to the nature of commenting in haste to reply to others.
I can decide to write good grammar like you by using spell and grammar check before posting but my intention is to convey the message and counter attack on Islam.
Fortunately, people do understand my comments and do reply to them including you. That is my wish and not my grammar.
Why and what is the reason for spell, grammar and other checks in word processing? if it is a shame for us not to speak Queens English?
Mark, it is not much more about English here but theology and I am doing well on that.
I’m not entirely convinced that the it is a generational issue – it’s more a question of revelation to specific peoples. The Old Testament is regarded as a revelation to – and only to – the Jews. Non-Jewish groups were not required to keep Jewish laws or adhere to Jewish beliefs. So I do think that there is room to doubt the universality of 5:32.
Not that adhering to it is a bad thing – it’s a good thing!
I say;
In Islam, some of the Jewish law like 5:32, not eating pork, halal meat, praying etc. has been repeated for us as Muslims to do and follow.
Dirk, it’s a mystery. You can understand if you have a close personal relationship with God, then He will reveal it to you. Just believe, you can do it.
Blogging Theology 
lol You are getting under his skin
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Paul
Why foster all the hate for bruv Nabeel?
LikeLiked by 1 person
hate? lol Nabeel is a Christian missionary whose whole life it seems is dedicated to attacking Islam and Muslims – often with outrageous lies. You don’t care about that of course.
LikeLiked by 4 people
Paul
Where did he attack Muslims and Islam in that tweet?
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not in that tweet. Are you not aware of his lies and misinformation about Islam he continuously spews out? You do not protest about that – of course.
And don’t you agree that the world has not changed for the better at all?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Paul
Well I cannot honestly say that I have seen where he has lied or disseminated misinformation about Islam.
In his defence, my own experience on your blog has been eye-opening since your Muslim commenters seem unable to articulate any meaningful argument for something as basic as tawhid. In fact, a search of your blog returns exactly four posts with the label “tawhid” none of which actually describe its particulars.
The point is that it is difficult for me to take seriously the charge that anyone is lying or spreading misinformation about Islam when your own blog and army of Muslim commenters won’t – or can’t – even form a coherent argument for the tawhid. If you guys won’t tell us the particulars of your faith, then it is irrational to say that others are lying when they have to try and, objectively, figure things out for themselves and come up with a different interpretation.
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yawn. You have been ably refuted over and over.
How can anyone take seriously someone who is a self-confessed “troll”? Your questions are silly and you fail to engage with the responses.
Don’t blame others for your faults dear boy.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Paul
What’s your point here? If this is an amazing objection, then your threshold for the amazing is set extremely low.
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Paul
I think that I have been unfairly labeled.
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oh well. I’m ending the discussion here. One must never feed the trolls. Bye
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Paul
Pity. I actually wanted to hear why you think you have come up with a resounding objection.
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bloggingtheology motto: do not feed the trolls
LikeLiked by 1 person
Paul
See what I mean? I ask you a simple question about why you think your objection is so phenomenal and you accuse me of trolling – next you’ll accuse me of attacking Islam.
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yawn…. Trolling is in your DNA. You once described yourself in a comment as a “troll”.
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As rabbi Immanuel Schochet said, there has been so much war and killing since the arrival of Jesus p and much of it was done in his name!
For people of Nabeel’s belief, have you thought whether killings, rapes and other huge sins stopped during the 31-33 years you believe Jesus p was on this earth? If not why not, after all this evil would have taken place during the presence of Jesus whom you believe to be divine..
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@Dirk
You ask about Nabeel’s misinformation. Great, let me ask you to look into a couple of matters and then I can certainly furnish you with a few more:
And check this one out where Nabeel Qureshi is shamelessly misusing this Verse in the aftermath of the horrific Paris attack (Nabeel has a habit of misusing tragedies and human suffering for the purpose of attacking Islam)
Oh and if you’re a Christian, you would label him as a false teacher:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArcvOvSxgeU
LikeLiked by 1 person
“… the brightest light stepped into the deepest darkness …” This sheds a light on the very very strong grecoroman gnostic roots of Gentile Christianity
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yahya Snow
Thanks for the vids!
I watched the first only though and did not really see how bruv Nabeel misrepresented anything. The problem you have is that if we cannot take the Quran at face value, then why should we assume that it is divine truth?
What I mean is that if you have to reference extra-Quranic material to interpret Quranic revelation, then the extra-Quranic material is vastly more important than the Quran. In this case, Surah 5:32 when read at face value and approached objectively one has little choice but to agree with Nabeel’s interpretation.
Think of it this way; if all the hadith and other traditions were lost, and only the Quran remained, would investigators read that Surah and take it the same way as the hadith? I think not. This leads to more problems – if human interpretation is necessary to give meaning to Quranic verses, why should I accept the interpretations of your sources over Nabeel’s? Such an approach leaves us with the notion that GOD cannot impart understanding to humans – even with HIS direct word – without human intercession.
I hope you can see the problem that you have – there’s no reason to view Nabeel’s interpretation as less valid than anyone else’s.
As for Chomski – I agree that there is some of that going on (terrorism is a response to western policies) – but if it was only that then you have to ask why SE Asians did not carry out terrorism against the west when the US and France were carpet bombing them?
Maybe you can shed light on this issue – Paul won’t tell me the point of this objection. What point are you guys making when you say – and I paraphrase – “the world is still a lousy place after JESUS”?
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“Paul won’t tell me the point of this objection. What point are you guys making when you say – and I paraphrase – “the world is still a lousy place after JESUS”?”
the point is very obvious. Nabeel talks of a great light coming into this world and changing it forever. But it does not look very changed.
capish?
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Paul
So it’s just a petty quibble about nothing theologically significant.
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Duck your comments are being moderated. Don’t try an wriggle out of it lol
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Dirk
You are not a fool, neither are you stupid or idiot. I repeat you are not but David Wood and Nabil Quraish are fools, idiots and stupid. Why did I say so?
If verse 5:32 is for the Jews ONLY and ALONE as you want us to believe, then why was it in the Quran? Why was it in the Quran at all? Why was it repeated in the Quran?
The verse did not say “We ordained to the Jews only and alone”. Any one who interpret it that way is a fool and idiot.
If I warned my younger son by saying.
———————
Son, I have warned your elder brother not to kill anyone except for defence, but son, if some one attacks you and is trying to kill you fight him back and if you realize he is an armed robber and is bend on killing you and your family then during the struggle between you and him kill him in self defence if you have the chance.
———————
Does that means that killing in self defence is applicable to only my elder son? not my applicable to my younger son? only a stupid person with no brain will think so.
This is the verse from the Quran;
It does not need interpretation and commentary from anyone. It is clear unless one is stupid.
//
Quran 5:32
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.
//
The above have left an option for the children of Israel to kill for the corruption don in the land. So what are they talking about? Wood and Nabeel except being fools who do not want to attend school and learn Arabic and learn Islamic theology and get good degrees in it before attacking Islam.
Non Muslims like a Christian John Esposito of Georgetown university, Lesley Hazelton, Karyn Armstrong and many non Muslim Islamic scholars who learnt and speak Arabic and research Islam in academic circles have interpreted it differently than these stooges(Nabeel and Wood).
Dr. James White is not a fool and will not interpret the verse like Wood and Nabeel. It is no wonder that David Wood has brainwashed Nabeel Quraish to the point that he(Nabeel) sees him(David Wood) in dream leading him to heaven.
And respectful Christians like Ken Temple deeply believed that and read this stupid book of Nabeel. Dr. James White has really shown that he is very intelligent and will not take this nonsense.
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When he talks of a great light coming into this world and changing it forever, he probably means it not coming into this world and not changing it forever at the same time.
Easy.
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thinkverywell
Thanks for the kind words!
I’m loath to deem those who view things differently as fools, idiots and stupid, yet I appreciate your forthrightness.
I strongly doubt that the non-Muslim scholars you cite would have studied the Quran without reference to the traditions. I, therefore, still would maintain that a problem remains with any objective interpretation of the passage alone.
But I think that we both agree that the verse is open to interpretation – it does not specifically say that the teaching applies only to Jews but there is no reason to think that it applies to any group other than the Jews.
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Burhanuddin1
I think that attempts at placing temporal limitations on the capacities of GOD fail if you accept that such a being exists outside of time.
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Dirk I understand very well. By “accepting that such a being exists outside of time” you mean “not accepting that such a being exists outside of time” at the same time.
Easy.
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Burhanuddin1
Not sure what you mean here.
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Dirk
Thanks. We are all learning and as people of faith, no matter what faith, we must be truthful. I differentiated between you and Dr. White on one hand and Nabeel and Wood on the other hand.
Dr. White of late has decided to be objective and he must be commended for that. The reason why I used stupid and fools for David Wood and Nabeel Quraish is that it has been established with facts, just like the fake “ex-Muslims” like Ergun Carner, Walid Shoebat, Aayan Ali, Irshad Manji and many more who deliberately tells lies to Christians about Islam to get rich is the hallmark of Nabeel Quraish trained by David Wood.
Such people must be exposed with regards to their lies because they are not good to both Muslims or Christians and they want to put hate among us.
I treated you and Dr. White differently because I do not hate Christians but I hate lies and a deliberate liar like Nabeel Quraish. If he does not repent from such lies, fire is waiting for him according to both the Bible and the Quran.
Back to topic.
Verse 5:32 is telling Muslims about what Allah commanded the Children of Israel “not to do” and “what to do”. It did not say the command is “only’ for the children of Israel “alone”.
My question was;
Why was the same command repeated in the Quran? I brought a scenario about what can be commanded to an elder son to be used as a reminder to a younger son.
I then said only a stupid person will say a repeated command from a father reminding the younger son of the same command he made for an elder son is applicable to the elder son alone but not the younger son.
Any rational person will know for sure that a repeated command from a past generation is also applicable to the newer generation it is been addressed. So verse 5;32 is not for the children of Israel alone but for all humanity and the Quran has similar commands from the original people addressed to we the younger generations. It is applicable to us all.
There are so many Islamic scholars including many non-Muslims and sometimes Christians who are Islamic scholars who had studied, researched and teach Islamic studies in higher academic Institutions. The first thing they do is to learn Arabic and then Islamic History, fiq, aqeedah, Nahw, science of hadith and so many modules.
These scholars, if even non-Muslims, because of their independent years of research about Islam and will not want to taint their research always come out with Arabic interpretation of their findings and not rely on any interpretation or any commentary.
The commentaries are some scholars observations and some can be overwritten but others cannot but verse 5:32 is clear that it not for the children of Israel alone but for all humanity
LikeLiked by 1 person
Intellect is now thinkverywell. Why the change of facade?
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Mark is a smart guy. Using one’s intellect is the same as thinking very well but it does not mean it is the same person changing names. Wait a minute. It is 2 persons 1 being(human being).
It could be like 3 Persons 1 God(Divine being). So Mark, it should not surprise you. I am not intellect but thinkverywell.
LikeLike
Same long winded comments and with poor grammar. I’m betting u are the same person.
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As a Christian should you not show some manners?
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thinkverywell
Interesting points.
I’m not entirely convinced that the it is a generational issue – it’s more a question of revelation to specific peoples. The Old Testament is regarded as a revelation to – and only to – the Jews. Non-Jewish groups were not required to keep Jewish laws or adhere to Jewish beliefs. So I do think that there is room to doubt the universality of 5:32.
Not that adhering to it is a bad thing – it’s a good thing!
LikeLike
Mark
You said
Same long winded comments and with poor grammar. I’m betting u are the same person.
I say;
I am not the only one making mistakes here. Even Robert Wells who claimed to be a White living in the West and has English as his first language will be corrected several times here. Many others do mistakes due to the nature of commenting in haste to reply to others.
I can decide to write good grammar like you by using spell and grammar check before posting but my intention is to convey the message and counter attack on Islam.
Fortunately, people do understand my comments and do reply to them including you. That is my wish and not my grammar.
Why and what is the reason for spell, grammar and other checks in word processing? if it is a shame for us not to speak Queens English?
Mark, it is not much more about English here but theology and I am doing well on that.
Thanks.
LikeLike
Dirk
You said;
Interesting points.
I’m not entirely convinced that the it is a generational issue – it’s more a question of revelation to specific peoples. The Old Testament is regarded as a revelation to – and only to – the Jews. Non-Jewish groups were not required to keep Jewish laws or adhere to Jewish beliefs. So I do think that there is room to doubt the universality of 5:32.
Not that adhering to it is a bad thing – it’s a good thing!
I say;
In Islam, some of the Jewish law like 5:32, not eating pork, halal meat, praying etc. has been repeated for us as Muslims to do and follow.
Thanks.
LikeLike
@ Dirk “Not sure what you mean here.”
Dirk, it’s a mystery. You can understand if you have a close personal relationship with God, then He will reveal it to you. Just believe, you can do it.
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