An empirical study reports that the Old Testament and the New Testament are both more violent than the Quran. Having studied all three in detail I already believed this to be true.
Advanced text mining platform scours Quran, Old and New Testaments in just minutes to reveal most violent content
Reblogged Odin Text, January 20, 2016
OdinText, Inc., developers of the Next Generation Text Analytics SaaS (software-as-a-service) platform, today announced results from a comparative analysis of the Quran and the Old and New Testaments using the latest data mining technology to uncover with as little bias as possible the extent to which the content of any of these texts is more violent than that of the others.
The project was inspired by pundits’ claims that the rise of terrorism connected with Islamic fundamentalism reflects something inherently and distinctly violent about Islam compared to other major religions.
“Obviously, to understand any religion one must start with its literature. So, we thought it would be an interesting exercise to compare the primary books of Islam and Judeo-Christianity—arguably the core of their philosophies and tenets—using the advanced data mining technology that Fortune 500 corporations, government agencies and other institutions routinely use to comb through large sets of unstructured text to identify patterns and uncover insights,” said Tom H. C. Anderson, CEO of OdinText.
“The topic and data sources selected for this project constitute a significant departure from the consumer intelligence applications for which clients typically turn to OdinText,” he added. “Given the complexity of the data sources and the sensitivity of the subject, we were eager to see what a higher level and therefore less biased analysis would reveal.”
OdinText initially scans all data with the exact same assumptions. This allows for completely fair and 100 percent consistent coding across all data.
OdinText completed the analysis of all three combined texts in fewer than two minutes to produce objective reads of sentiment—positive and negative—and to quantify the emotional nature of the respective texts across eight primary categories derived from modern psychology: joy, anticipation, anger, disgust, sadness, surprise, fear/anxiety and trust.
A look at the combined Old and New Testaments—i.e., the Bible—compared to the Quran revealed the texts are fairly uniform in levels of ‘surprise,’ ‘sadness’ and ‘disgust’, but the Bible registers higher in ‘anger’ and the Quran rates higher in ‘joy,’ but also in ‘fear/anxiety’ and ‘trust’ (See figure).
Analyzing the Old and New Testaments separately against one another and the Quran yielded more specific findings:
–Of the three texts, the content in the Old Testament appears to be the most violent. Killing and destruction are referenced slightly more often in the New Testament (2.8%) than in the Quran (2.1%), but the Old Testament clearly leads—more than twice that of the Quran—in mentions of destruction and killing (5.3%).
-The concept of ‘love’ appears most often in the New Testament (3.0%), significantly more than in either the Old Testament (1.9%) or the Quran (1.26%).
–The concept of ‘forgiveness/grace’ occurs significantly more often in the Quran (6.3%) than in the New Testament (2.9%) or the Old Testament (0.7%).
-On the concept of ‘faith/belief,’ the Quran leads (7.6%), followed by the New Testament (4.8%) and the Old Testament a distant third (0.2%).
OdinText uncovered what appears to be a significant difference with regard to the extent to which the texts distinguish between ‘members’ and ‘non-members.’
Both the Old and New Testaments use the term “gentile” to signify those who are not Jewish, but the Quran is somewhat distinct in referencing the concept of the ‘Unbeliever’ (e.g.,“disbelievers,” “rejectors,” etc.). And in two instances, the ‘unbeliever’ is connected directly to the term “enemy.”
“While we’ve only scratched the surface here, it appears safe to conclude that some commonly-held assumptions about and perceptions of these texts may not necessarily hold true,” said Anderson.
“For instance, those who have not read or are not fairly familiar with the content of all three texts may be surprised to learn that the content in the Quran is not more violent than that of the Bible,” he said.
Blogging Theology 
Quite interesting.
Yes, at least this study is not as biased as the Islamic detractors.
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I expected this result with the Old Testament, but I am surprised that the New Testament has more violent content than the Qur’an.
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The book of revelation is full of violence
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But Islam is much more than the Qur’an. Are you a “Qur’an Only” Muslim? Islam also includes the Ahadith (many collections and even different collections between Sunnis and Shiites), the Sira, the Tarikh, the Tafsirs, the books of Sharia law (Fiq), etc.
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Does the study distinguish between the sinful violence of humans vs. the just violence of God?
A lot of the violence in the book of Revelation is about God’s justice on judgement day – when Christ returns on a white horse, He will wage just and righteous war. Revelation 19:11
Don’t you also believe in God’s justice to judge and send people to hell?
Don’t you believe in the justice of the Mehdi and Al Masih when they return at the end of time? (In Sunni Islam, that is the belief, right?)
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Another problem is avoiding the progressive revelation aspect of OT to NT – law to grace. Law has more punishments, holy war, political state of Israel unity with religion – but the NT separates polticial and military power out from the church; New Covenant & Church is not allowed to wield the sword of government/police/military power, etc.
Islam seems to be ignorant of NT text and only knows about a few random things about the NT (that Al Masih was born of the virgin Mary, for example, taught the gospel, did miracles, is called “the Word of God”; is a “Spirit from God”), but not much else. Islam seems to have skipped the NT and grace went back to the law of Moses, and added a lot more things, thus changing some things of God’s revelation, even though totally acknowledges both the OT (Torah and Zabur) and NT (Injeel) as revelations from God.
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‘Another problem is avoiding the progressive revelation aspect of OT to NT – law to grace. ‘
That is a classic anti-semitic Christian prejudice that thankfully most Christian theologians have now repented of. But the prejudice still lingers on in the fundamentalist heartlands of the US.
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Why do you call that “anti-semitic”? That is not fair. It is not “anti-semitic” to see that the NT is about the gospel spreading to all nations, cultures, and countries, and the NT does not demand legal punishments (like the Huddud punishments in Islam) for the things in the OT law that was only for Israel as a political state. There is nothing about being racial or against the Jews as people, etc. (or any other Semitic people group – God is working in all people groups and loves all peoples and cultures and is drawing people to Himself – Revelation 5:9
“people out from every people and tribe and tongue and nations were purchased by the blood of the Lamb for God.” Revelation 5:9
In Christ, there is no Jew or Gentile or slave or free or Scythian or barbarian – all are equal. Colossians 3:9-11; in Galatians 3:26-28 – male and females are equal in Christ.
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it is very fair indeed to call it anti-semitic as the Christian tradition has vilified the Jews and distorted their religion as you do. But happily, there has been a revolution in biblical studies since the 1980s and the old Lutheran law contra grace model has been rightly abandoned. Read EP Sanders, NT Wright and JDG Dunn.
And Jesus was a torah observant Jew who upheld the Law including executions for various offences.
Note: Jesus was not a Christian or a Calvinist or an American.
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Ken
You make a good point about the Hadith not being included in the study but nevertheless for the average Islamophobe, the claim is the Quran is a violent book thus it’s a really interesting study to help refocus the Islamophobe’s mindset.
Just touching on the anti-semitic point, I have just read that in a book which responds to Craig Evans. Yeah there was anti-Jewish sentiment in the way Christian scholarship represented the beliefs of the Jews (in particular the Pharisees) but also that general theme of we have grace they don’t have it. The author cites Sanders on the caricatures of Jewish belief:
“The position is basically this: We (the Christians. or the true Christians) believe in grace and forgiveness. Those religious qualities characterize Christianity, and thus could not have been present in the religion from which Christianity came from”
Christian scholars represented them as folk who did not have a concept of grace and forgiveness. Ask rabbi Tovia Singer about forgiveness in the Hebrew Bible and he will tell you it exists and rest assured he will not tell you anything about a human sacrifice which sadly the Christians ended up believing in.
You may also be interested in some of the views and instructions of Martin Luther concerning the Jews which are outlined in that book. Let’s just put it this way, he would be banged up with Anjem Choudary if he was calling for that stuff in this day and age.
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Yahya thank you for pointing all that out. To be honest I just run out of patience with some Christians who should know all that but seemingly wilfully remain within their discredited views about Jews and Judaism.
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it is very fair indeed to call it anti-semitic as the Christian tradition has vilified the Jews and distorted their religion as you do.
no; not fair.
The New Testament never does that; as I PROVED it by the verses I gave you. Most of the writers are Jews themselves. (all except for Luke)
And the NT is not against God’s law, it is against the legalism of thinking obeying all the laws was conditions and merit and earning God’s favor.
Some of the law was fulfilled in Christ – the ceremonial law, temple sacrifices, feast days, change of Sabbath Day, circumcision, and the punishments. Oh, and the land promises to Israel – fulfilled and no longer. (Hebrews chapters 11, 12, 13; Galatians 4:26; Revelation 21-22
Injustice, bigotry, violence against Jews as people was a later violation of the New Testament, not a part of the NT. Inquisitions, Crusades, and What Luther wrote at the end of his life was wrong and sinful; but you cannot blame the NT for that.
Luther “lost it” at the end of his life.
Luther was right on justification by faith and Sola Scriptura (Scripture is the only infallible rule/standard of faith); but he was very wrong in his writing against the Jews at the very end of his life.
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Christianity never denies there is grace, forgiveness, and the love of God in the Old Testament.
The OT never taught salvation by works – Genesis 15:6 – “Abram believed in the LORD, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” Abram was justified by faith, not by works. Abram believed in the LORD and the promise to bring Messiah into the world through his own offspring. (15:1-6; 12:1-4 – the one who would come from Abraham and bless all the nations)
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Ken we are at cross purposes here. Enjoy your religion. In mine knowledge and & learning are encouraged. I just don’t have the patience to educate you in the scholarship of the last 30 years. You need to read up about it yourself. But that would mean coming out of your intellectual straight jacket – something you have never done.
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But you don’t even look at the verses I cited nor the argumentation. The NT is NEVER anti-semitic.
Jesus and John the Baptist opposed the Pharisees because they thought being Jewish saved them or their works earned God’s favor. “Do not say to yourselves, ‘we have Abraham as our father”; for God is able to raise up stones to Abraham”
The Pharisees were the ones who mis-interpreted the OT as earning one’s salvation by being Jewish and obeying the rituals and external laws.
I am fully aware of the “New Perspectives on Paul” by E. P. Sanders, Dunn, and Wright.
It is you who need to read up and read John Piper’s answer to N. T. Wright on that issue.
The Future of Justification: A Response to N. T. Wright, by John Piper (Crossway, 2007)
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Sadly the NT contains a number of nasty anti-Semitic verses that even Christian scholars are now admitting. These verses have resulted in the persecution of Jews down the ages. This is well known.
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John the Baptizer – یحیی = Yahya in Islam –
Matthew 3:1-12
1. Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying,
2 “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
3 For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet when he said,
“The voice of one crying in the wilderness,
‘Make ready the way of the Lord,
Make His paths straight!’”
4 Now John himself had a garment of camel’s hair and a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey.
5 Then Jerusalem was going out to him, and all Judea and all the district around the Jordan; 6 and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, as they confessed their sins.
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;
9 and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.
10 The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
11 “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you [h]with the Holy Spirit and fire.
12 His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
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Jesus Al Masih عیسی المسیح said:
“Beware of the teaching of the Pharisees and Saducees” – Matthew 16:11-12
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No; there is nothing anti-semitic in the NT.
Some verses were twisted by people centuries later (Inquisitions, Crusades, Luther at end of life);
but the NT was only talking about certain Jews that opposed Jesus and paid Judas Ischariot to betray Jesus and instigated the crowds to manipulate Pilate to have Jesus killed on the cross and persecuted the apostles.
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Yes; there is anti-semitic teaching in the NT. Christian scholars now admit it.
‘Jesus Al Masih عیسی المسیح ‘
Dude speak English on my blog. Im not from the middle east!
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Hello Mr. Williams and Mr. Temple. I don’t know if you remember me, but I’m a Catholic that used to comment on your blog. I disappeared for a while due to life circumstances but now I’m back and blogging at allanruhl.com.
Now, regarding the topic of the NT being anti-semitic. I will write a blog post on this but I just want to throw out the fact that we need to make a distinction between anti-judaism and anti-semitism. They are not the same thing. I don’t think either side has made that distinction. I will fully admit that the NT is anti-judaism.
Nice chatting with you all again and I will comment more in the future. God Bless
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hi there. I see no difference between anti-judaism and anti-semitism. Either way Jesus was a Jew who practiced Judaism.
Christians today are usually neither.
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Dude speak English on my blog. Im not from the middle east!
At the very top of your blog, you have Allah in Arabic script. الله
You don’t translate it (to “God”), nor transliterate it to “Allah”.
Many other articles of yours have Arabic and verses from the Qur’an in Arabic.
Al Masih is easy for you to understand, since you are so erudite and educated and scholarly.
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You also have بسم الله الرحمن الرحیم
at top (when one hits the home page icon) without translating it or transliterating it.
I can read it. (smile)
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Hello Mr. Williams,
The difference is that not every Jew practices Judaism. It is the traditional Jewish religion but many jews are secular and some have converted to other religions. In Nazi Germany, if you were a Jew by blood you were rounded up and sent to camps. That is anti-semitism. Edith Stein is a saint in the Catholic Church. She was a jew by birth but converted and became a nun. She was rounded up and sent to Auschwitz where she died solely because of her jewish blood.
In Catholic Spain, it was anti-judaism but not anti-semitism. The jews were told to leave or convert in 1492. Some left, some truly converted, and some falsely converted. The inquisition was set up to expose false converts. There was many true converts as well, some became great priests and nuns. Edith Stein would have had no problem in medieval Catholic Spain since she was a true convert.
That is the difference between anti-judaism and anti-semitism. The rest will be in my post.
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Ken Temple “… the sinful violence of humans vs. the just violence of God?”
Just violence of God? To kill an innocent deliberately to let the guilty go free is unjust.
“He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.” Proverbs 17:15
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The Qur’an only Muslims? This is a comparison between God’s Words, We Muslims don’t believe Prophet’s sayings are God’s word. If the prophetic saying goes against or contradict the Qur’an, we reject it. We judge the Hadith in the light of the Qur’an
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But there is no way to understand the Qur’an without the Asbab ol nozul اسباب النزول – the reasons for the revelation, that is, the historical context for why the revelation came down, which is only spread out among Ahadith, Sira, Tarikh, Tafsirs, etc. The Qur’an has very little historical context and jumps from subject to subject. Very unorganized thought.
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We judge the Hadith in the light of the Qur’an. That stills stands out this is the Ijma of the scholars. The Qur’an is a Tafsir of itself. It’s your opinion Qur’an is VERY UNORGANIZED. by dropping Arabic words you think you are kind of making an impression on us.
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its Kens attempt to ‘relate’ to Muslims, he thinks we all read Arabic lol
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The Qur’an introduces itself as the guidance for the worlds (Quran 3:96); and the manifest light (4:174) … Qur’an says: “and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything (16:89)
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Paul –
Asbab ol nozul اسباب النزول – the reasons for the revelation
I translated and transliterated for you. 🙂
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Lol show off
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Uncle Paul, They know majority of Muslims don’t speak Arabic, they try to intimidate Muslims by using Arabic, back off I know what I am talking about seems to me a missionary tactic.
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I really hope I am wrong.
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Another important point is that just because one puts violent words and terms into a computer, without context, grammar, sentences, historical background, it comes out with a skewed outcome, because many times God is warning against killing and violence – for example, just 4 examples right off the top of my head:
Genesis 4 – when Cain kills Abel – it is written to warn against being violent and the roots of violence and murder – jealousy, anger, false worship.
The Lord saw that the earth was corrupt and full of violence. Genesis 6:11-12
Ten Commandments – “You shall not murder – Exodus 20:13 and Deut. 5:17
God told David he could not build the temple because he was a violent war-like man who shed much blood in war – 1 Chronicles 22:8 and 28:3
The whole project of that (Odin Text, Inc. Text Analysis), that you re-blogged here is worthless, because it doesn’t analyze context, grammar, how sentences are used, historical background, and author’s intended meaning.
Also, 2-3 more off the top of my head:
in the NT – “put to death the (sinful) deeds of the flesh” (Romans 8:13)
and
Colossians 3:5 – “put to death the sinful members of your body that cause you to sin . . . ”
and
Ephesians 6:17 – “take the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God” – so that you can fight the devil / Satan – see context Ephesians 6:10-18
The computer, without knowing the context, will just add those texts up as “violent” in a negative way, but they are positive against sin and violence and wickedness, etc.
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To use Arabic words and also translate and transliterate them is not intimidation nor a “missionary tactic”, but it actually shows respect for your religion, because your own scholars use things like the Asbab ol Nozul (reasons for the revelation) to know the context of the verses of the Qur’an.
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dude it doesn’t come across as respectful. Just sayin..
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Then why to Muslim speakers start their speeches, etc. by reciting Arabic phrases, some more than others – some are rebuking Satan, etc. They don’t translate them many times.
After the bismillallah al rahman al rahim,
Allah t’aalah . . . (Allah the exalted)
“I seek refuge with Allah from the cursed Satan . . . “
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Understanding the Asbab ol Nozul in Islam is respecting your religion. seeking knowledge and understanding of the other side is respectful.
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dude they begin like that cos they are Muslims, its part of the sunnah. You use Arabic to impress and for your missionary agenda. Come on admit it. Muslims just don’t write the way you do.
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Not trying to impress. Just seeking to use your own religion’s phrases and words – getting to the original source.
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The whole project of that (Odin Text, Inc. Text Analysis), that you re-blogged here is worthless, because it doesn’t analyze context, grammar, how sentences are used, historical background, and author’s intended meaning.
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see above. Violence and anger, etc. needs to be understood in context. when God is commanding against murder and violence, the computer program does not distinguish. Therefore, worthless article.
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‘Just seeking to use your own religion’s phrases and words’
Dude if yo were actually a Muslim ok, but you are not. You are a missionary. Stop playing games.
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Also the OT and NT are much more violent than the Quran. Nowhere in the Quran does God target babies for slaughter.
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Sir Ken Temple, I am sorry I was just speaking my mind, I hope you didn’t get offended. I have seen some people here who do that.
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NT is not more violent than Qur’an.
You can argue that OT is, but NT, no.
The Qur’an speaks of punishing people by having their finger tips cut off and their feet and heads cut off.
These are commands for Muhammad and his followers to do to the unbelievers. Never in the NT is such a command given.
The OT commands like that in Deut 7-9; Joshua and I Sam. 15 were temporary and only for the political state of Israel, and only for getting the pagans out of the land of Israel. They are NO MORE, as abrogated by the New Testament.
Qur’an is more violent because it actually commands it for TODAY, whereas NT abrogated that aspect of OT.
Surah 8:12
[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, “I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.”
Surah 5:33
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
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Sir Ken Temple, I am sorry I was just speaking my mind, I hope you didn’t get offended. I have seen some people here who do that.
I appreciate that. I am not offended; thanks for your efforts.
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Again, no one has attempted to respond to this, because there is not a good response. Therefore, the whole article is a totally bogus argument.
The whole project of that (Odin Text, Inc. Text Analysis), that you re-blogged here is worthless, because it doesn’t analyze context, grammar, how sentences are used, historical background, and author’s intended meaning.
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Violence in the New Testament:
“Beware, I am throwing [Jezebel] on a bed, and those who commit adultery with her I am throwing into great distress, unless they repent of her doings; and I will strike her children dead.” (NRSV Revelation 2:22-23)
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death. (KJV 2:22-23)
Jezebel is one of the false prophets that Jesus mentions by name. Not only will she be punished, but her children will be killed. Ouch.
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[The evil locusts] were told not to damage the grass of the earth or any green growth or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. They were allowed to torture them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torture was like the torture of a scorpion when it stings someone. And in those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will flee from them. (NRSV Revelation 9:4-6)
And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. (KJV 9:4-6)
Nice. God lets the locusts torture people but not kill them (even though they’re dreaming of death). Do the people notice that Christians aren’t being tormented? Why aren’t they jumping on that bandwagon?
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The four angels were released, who had been held ready for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, to kill a third of humankind. (NRSV Revelation 9:15)
And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. (KJV 9:15)
More murders. A third of the population gone. Just like that.
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The heads of the horses were like lions’ heads, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths. By these three plagues a third of humankind was killed, by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths. For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails; their tails are like serpents, having heads; and with them they inflict harm. (NRSV Revelation 9:17-19)
And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt. (KJV 9:17-19)
Another third of humanity is killed here. Between Death and the four angels, and these weird horses, there can’t be too many people left alive, right? And why does God do it in thirds?
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The angel swung his sickle over the earth and gathered the vintage of the earth, and he threw it into the great wine press of the wrath of God. And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the wine press, as high as a horse’s bridle, for a distance of about two hundred miles. (NRSV 14:18-20)
And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. (KJV 14:18-20)
Probably the grossest image in all of Revelation. The fact that we’re given the exact measure of how much blood there was makes this just a tiny bit more disturbing. Luckily we’re not quite sure how big a furlong is.
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From [Jesus’s] mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron; he will tread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. (NRSV 19:15)
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (KJV 19:15)
So Jesus gets in on the violence a bit, too.
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All of those passages in Revelation about God’s judgment (don’t you believe that Allah has the right to judge ?) –
there is not one that is a command for believers to do that in the NT;
unlike the Qur’an, which gives commands for Muslims to kill non-believers.
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Jesus judges at the end of time, yes. when He returns, He will judge.
God judges by sending people to hell.
You also believe that principle; and you also are obligated to believe in God’s sovereignty and that He punishes people in this life also as consequences for sin.
So, all of the Revelation texts are irrelevant, because they are NOT commands for NT believers to do.
You have ignored the context of the passages. (as what that Text Analysis article did.)
But the Qur’an violent passages are commands for Muhammad and Muslims to kill and smite and cut off heads and feet and finger tips of unbelievers.
Big difference.
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Ken
Revelation is full of war, genocide, and destruction; it is probably the most violent book in the entire Bible.
Glad you admit that the NT contains many violent passages where the unbelievers are slaughtered on a massive scale – in some passages by Jesus himself.
This same Jesus also in the OT commands the slaughter of women, children and babies in a number of passages (see 1 Samuel 125).
I agree that during Jesus’ very short career in Palestine he only committed a few violent acts (overturning the tables in the Temple, and whipping people)
Yet he endorsed such commands as:
‘And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.’ –Lev.20:14
He needlessly killed some animals,
Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favourably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. Mark 8:27-37
Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” 10:34-36
Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment:
“He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (See Ex 21:15, Lev 20:9, Dt 21:18-21)
So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7
He taught violence to ones own body:
Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it’s better to be “maimed” than to suffer “everlasting fire.” 18:8-9
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2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness
This refers to what we call the OT. Christians throughout the ages (including Americans) have identified non-Christians in other lands as latter day Amalekites and have found the OT inspiring for the genocide they committed against them. These are facts of history.
Thank God more liberal Christians now reject this use of the Bible
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You know Jesus did not mean that in Matthew 18:8-9 or Matthew 5:29-30 as literally. It is hyperbole – exaggeration to make a point of how serious it is. Jesus was saying cut out sin in your life – deal seriously with sin – need a new mind and heart (thoughts and motives and imaginations) and need to cut out activities that are going to lead you back to your old life – for example, a person who used to get drunk and party, etc. after conversion has to cut off his friendships with those people who would “cause him to stumble”. If watching TV causes one to stumble, cut out TV, etc.
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No, 2 Tim. 3:15 is about the OT, but 3:16 expands it to include the NT.
Christians in first 350 years did not apply OT commands to kill people. You are wrong.
The later Inquisitions and Crusades, etc. were wrong in many ways; and NOT a proper application of OT passages, if they even used those passages to justify them.
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2 Tim is only about the OT as the NT was not finally canonized until the 4th century.
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Ken you are just spinning the text to avoid the plain and natural meaning, like saying Jihad just means struggle. Some early Christians (top experts in the Bible) knew differently and castrated themselves
But I applaud your more liberal reading of the words.
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Is this not to be taken literally too? Yet Jesus endorsed such commands as:
‘And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.’ –Lev.20:14
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That (Lev. 20:14) was only for Israel as a political state – there is no more Biblical Israel as a politicial state. It ended in 70 AD.
Jesus – “I am taking away the kingdom from the Jews and giving it to a nation producing the fruit of it.” Matthew 21:43-45
The Pharisees understood He was talking about them.
The NT understands the punishment for those sins, is excommunication from the church – 1 Corinthians 5:1-13.
But Ali burnt atheists, and Muslims were commanded to kill apostates for leaving Islam, as the famous Hadith says:
Sahih Al Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Narrated ‘Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to ‘Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn ‘Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'”
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“NT finally canonized in 4th century” = means only that a few of the books were questioned by some in some areas, as all the 27 NT books were individual scrolls sent to different areas in the first century.
They all existed individually by 96 AD. if they existed and were God-breathed, that means they were also “criterion” / “law” / “standard” at the time they were written.
the “canonization” process you refer to is about the historical process of discovering and discerning which ones were already apostolic in the first century, and indeed God-breathed, and therefore already “canon”.
most of them are recognized as canonical / inspired by 150-200 AD – Irenaeus and Tertullian mention most as holy and inspired Scripture. Just because they don’t mention books like 2-3 John or 2 Peter does not mean they didn’t exist or were not considered inspired. Others quote from them.
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Those that castrated themselves or plucked out their eyes also confessed, “O God, I can still imagine a beautiful woman in my mind, even though I plucked out my eyes !!” – so he realized too late that Jesus did not mean that literally, but was calling for a radical renovation of the mind and heart – renew your mind towards holy and clean thoughts and motives.
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ken temple , this is the command of your failed “messiah”
36 He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this scripture must be fulfilled in me, ‘And he was reckoned with transgressors’; for what is written about me has its fulfilment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.
jesus gets interviewed by pilate
jesus: my kingdom is not of this world if it were my followers would have fought….
pilate : BULL SHIT! i just found out that you told them to purchase swords and that one of your companions chopped off an ear
jesus : i was fulfilling prophecy
pilate : guards take him away and crucify him upside down
i think verse 37 may be an interpolation in luke .
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jesus response ” have you come …with swords and clubs to capture me?”
kind of a silly question because what else are the authorities to come with ? roses? and who are they protecting people from? from people who give command to purchase swords. don’t you agree that question was kind of silly?
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ken temple, let me tell you some good news. jewish people in israel consider your jesus and the new testament dead .
now i will quote to you ,
“But the LORD will have compassion on Jacob and will again choose Israel, and will set them in their own land; and aliens will join them and attach themselves to the house of Jacob. And the peoples will take them and bring them to their place, and the house of Israel will possess them in the LORD’s land as male and female slaves; they will take captive those who were their captors, and rule over those who oppressed them.
(Isaiah 14:1-2; RSV).
so you, ken temple, according to IS 14:1 will be possession of the jews?
your jesus always says , “moses said…” can you tell me what he thought about isaiah 14: 1-2?
what is going to be done when you and your family will be possessed property? orthodox jews in israel use passages like this in thinking that you will be their property.
you love “messianic prophecies” but you don’t like discussing passages like isaiah 14:1-2 ?
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Isaiah 14 was about the Jews return to the land after the Babylonian Captivity (606 BC – 536 BC = 70 years)- keep reading – verse 4 – a judgment on the King of Babylon . . .
Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon exiled most of the Jews to Babylon in 606 BC (Daniel and his friends were taken then) ( 2 Kings 24)
then later, Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 586 BC. (2 Kings 25)
Isaiah is prophesying about the future judgment on Babylon, after coming back to the land, which Cyrus the Persian allowed them to go back in 536 BC.
Isaiah wrote around 750-730 BC.
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ken temple, let me tell you some good news. jewish people in israel consider your jesus and the new testament dead .
ok, but the Qur’an honors Jesus by calling him Al Masih and virgin born.
modern Jews are wrong about Jesus. We should pray for them and preach the gospel to them.
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lol christian apologist telling me to read things in context. what a joke.
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do jews in israel see this verse as a future prophecy, yes or no?
“But the LORD will have compassion on Jacob and will again choose Israel, and will set them in their own land; and aliens will join them and attach themselves to the house of Jacob. And the peoples will take them and bring them to their place, and the house of Israel will possess them in the LORD’s land as male and female slaves; they will take captive those who were their captors, and rule over those who oppressed them.
(Isaiah 14:1-2; RSV).
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funny thing is jews are waiting for your halocaust (revenge) and you are waiting for holocaust 2
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i understand method of christian apologists now.
1. try to find jesus in torah to make prophecy fulfilment
2. if you come across verses like , ” i have not come to bring peace but division…”
“how i wish the fire was already kindled”
reinterpret them because you know they are anti family, against loving the neighbour and disrespect toward mother and father
and golden nugget
the verses about division could be interpreted in light of deu 13:8-9 where god tells jews to KILL family members who do not follow jewish religion
this the game of christians and christianity
scavenge torah for only human sacrificial rituals and other pre conceived pagan notions
point to note : do you see how jesus purpose clauses in mat 10:34 -37 are very close in wording to the purpose clauses in “think not that i have come to abolish….”
let those with ears hear.
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“jesus response ” have you come …with swords and clubs to capture me?”
kind of a silly question because what else are the authorities to come with ? roses? and who are they protecting people from? from people who give command to purchase swords. don’t you agree that question was kind of silly?”
Not really no, it could have just been rhetoric rather than actually asking them what they were there for as if they took a wrong turn someplace like bugs bunny 😉
y’know cause some folks are capable of that, even in the first century!
I imagine a Prophet of God would not be overly afraid of what a few neaderthals with clubs might do to him, after all Jesus instructed us rather to fear he who can destroy us and cast us into the hellfire (thats God by the way, not the Romans which was often the point of Jesus’ message in case your interested)
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