Dear readers,
For your information, I have just deleted two articles written by Ibn Anwar under the title: “Did Jacob wrestle with God, Jesus, or an angel? “ and “Dismantling the Trinitarian perception of John1:1” at the request of the author himself.
The articles have stimulated interesting discussion and have attracted over 40+ comments. This is an apology for all who has contributed and those who may want to learn from reading it that these articles have to be deleted.
Yours faithfully.
Eric bin Kisam
Categories: Miscellaneous
Blogging Theology 
I am not blaming anyone. Pride, arrogance, satanic influence is a very bad thing we all have to distance our selves from.
There was good articles we are all commenting, learning and arguing for the truth. Satan has reared his ugly heard to divide us from pursuing the truth.
I wish brothers Anwar and Paul reconciled, so that he has his articles here again. Eric, you know both of them and speak to them. We need all of them as brothers.
Disagreement on points does not mean disagreement on faith and fight, insults, degrees, Phd, Masters etc. We are all learning here.
Ken Temple is a highly learned in theology than me, but he accepts my argumentation and replies to my questions. It does not make Ken Temple less qualified but Mr. Temple thinks he can still convert Muslims with his illogical religion. This is no insults but my friend Temple believes his religion is the most logical anyone can follow and we continue to search for truth with no fight for a long time.
That is how it should be.
Thanks.
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correction
Satan rear his ugly head……….
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Thanks “Intellect”. I appreciate your comments.
Only God can convert a heart/soul on the inside. Only the Spirit of God works on a person’s heart to convert them to the truth.
Muslims are not harder than other atheists, modern party animal (drunkards, promiscuous) types, Buddhists, Hindus, western secularists, or un-regenerated Southern Baptists (those that go to church and think they are believers, but are not truly born again) or Roman Catholics, etc.
It takes just as much as the grace of God to convert a teen-age American who goes to church as it does a Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu or atheist.
We are all equally sinners in need of grace.
The Lord had to open Lydia’s heart. Acts 16:14
The Lord grants repentance. 2 Timothy 2:24-26;
“if perhaps God may grant repentance . . . ”
Acts 11:18
“Wow . . . God has granted to even the Gentiles the repentance that leads to life!”
God takes the words and the message and applies it to the heart and mind.
We are just servants/messengers with a message.
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Thanks Eric for your explanation.
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Ken Temple
You said;
It takes just as much as the grace of God to convert a teen-age American who goes to church as it does a Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu or atheist.
I say;
I worship the only one and alone true God of Abraham and I have been and always will provide proof from the Bible as I did with great detail from the just deleted Ibn Anwar’s article and how dare you convert me to paganism of worshiping man Jesus? or a hybrid God-Man who is nowhere in the Bible?
Also, you lied to us that Jesus Christ possess all the attributes/roles/names/functions/description/duties/jobs/works/characteristics/features etc. of the Father.
The Son cannot generate/create the Father or himself(Son). Anyone who is Son/son is not God. To say God is Son/son to anyone is a big blaspheme punishable by hell fire.
Thanks.
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Ken Temple
Son/son, be it, or whether metaphorical, literal, word, description, generated/created, understood by Church Fathers or Christians in any way shape or form is not a good name to call God. It does not befit God to be Son/son to anyone, no matter how you view the Son/son.
Certain names are blasphemous when ascribe to God. Any Good name or attribute is what is Good for God. Father is ok. Creator/Generator of Everything, sustainer, Merciful, Magnificent, Gracious etc. are all Good. Brother is not good for God. Sister is not Good for God. If brother is not good for God, how can Son/son be good for God?
Is the religion of calling someone who is Son/son God, that you want to convert me to? The Only One and Alone true God of Abraham as Jesus said
“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent,” (John 17:3).
is my God but not Son/son whatsoever.
Jesus did not mention “3 persons 1 God”, “Hypostatic union God” etc. so has already converted my heart/soul on the inside but outside counts as well in that one must accept the truth and continue to perform ritual like Jesus falling down on the ground to pray and follow God’s law to avoid satanic temptations, because that temptation continues today.
The Blood of Jesus Christ could not stop it.
Thanks.
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The Qur’an does not use the exact word “Towid” توحید , so how is that an argument?
Theological statements are expressions sometimes using other words that communicate the concept or thought that is the meaning of the text, not necessarily using the exact same words.
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The Father is not the Son, and the Son is the not the Father.
What I mean is that the Son possesses all the attributes of God (the nature of God) that the Father also has. – Omniscience, Omnipotence, Love, Truth, Mercy, Compassion, Holiness, Wrath against sin; Wisdom, Sovereignty, etc.
I can agree with you that the Son does not have the attribute of “Father” that makes God the Father, the Father, ok.
But the Son Jesus possesses all the attributes of God that make God God.
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Ken Temple
You said;
I can agree with you that the Son does not have the attribute of “Father” that makes God the Father, the Father, ok.
But the Son Jesus possesses all the attributes of God that make God.
I say;
What you said above is oxymoron because how can the Son possess all the attributes of the Father but he does not possess the Father attribute? You see what makes Christianity man-made religion?
What you said is “My Son do not posses my Father attribute, but my son possess all my attributes” Excuse me Mr. Ken it is a big lie. I will continue to hold you liar on this one until you convert to Islam(laugh) or drop it.
(You said God became man and that is why we are arguing so you cannot accuse me of comparing God and man)
The Father is God. You cannot disagree with me. God is One, Only and Alone. You cannot disagree with me.
The Father possess the attribute/role/name/duty/assigned duty/features etc. and He is the only one who possess the Father attribute that to generate/create the Son/son.
So the Son do not possess the Father attribute to generate/create the Father or the Son because they are limited to 3 persons.
So, the Son do not possess all the attributes of the Father. The Father possess all His attributes, including the Father attributes as God.
The Son do not possess all the Father attributes because the Father attribute itself the Son do not possess and so the Son Jesus Christ is not God.
Thanks.
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Thanks “Intellect”. I appreciate your comments.
lol, Yes showed it with your double quotations, and I really appreciate your “honesty”
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The Qur’an does not use the exact word “Towid” توحید , so how is that an argument?
should have been:
The Qur’an does not use the exact word “Towhid” توحید , so how is that an argument?
sorry for typo.
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Tauhid means 1 God without 3,2,4,5…………
Trinity means 3 person 1 God and without 3 persons no God.
Tauhid means 1 without any number of persons.
Trinity is derived from 3 and therefore there can be no God without 3 persons. Tri=3
Tauhid has no problem but Trinity has the problem of 3 persons.
Do not say 3, desist, it is better for you.
Thanks.
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Some Muslims here in my country never heard the Word Tawheed, do they not know Allah is one? of course they do.And I am pretty some Muslims has died without knowing the word Tawheed. Even if Muslim doesn’t know the word Tawheed he still a Muslim. Because the meaning of the word Tawheed exists in the Qur’aan.
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Five years back when I was in finishing my high school, I wasn’t supposed to write an essay using more than 200 words. When I present an essay to my teacher, He says after looking at it you have used more than 200 words, I replied to him I was very careful I didn’t even use the WORD once. That’s how silly, it’s sounds to me when people say Tawheed is not present in the Qur’aan.
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LOL
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The more precise Latin terminology in the early church was Trinitas Unitas and Unitas Trinitas.
The English word Trinity or Tri -Unitas is derived from the two Latin words. Unfortunately the English word Trinity feels like “Three” (because of “tri”), but the Unitas (One, Oneness, Unity) part is lost.
The early church fathers and writers studied the Bible and saw the passages that speak of “God is One” (Uno (Spanish), Unitas (Latin) – where we get the English word, Unity. The ones that Intellect quotes all the time like Deuteronomy 6:4, which Jesus quoted in Mark 12:29 – God is one.
They also noticed the NT passages that speak of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and now they relate to one another, speak to one another, testify of each other, the Son prays to the Father, the Father sends the Son, the Holy Spirit testifies to the Son, etc.
The Latin word Trinitas is the result of the seeing the 3 persons in the text.
So, the meaning of Unitas Trinitas (One in three) and Trinitas Unitas (3 in One) is there in the text, even though the words Trinitas or 3 persons are not used.
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Because the meaning of the word Tawheed exists in the Qur’aan.
Exactly! The meaning is there, even though the exact word is not there.
In the same way, the meaning of the Unitas Trinitas (one in three) (Trinity) is in the New Testament, even though the exact words Trinitas/ Trinity and the phrase “three persons” is not used in the text. The three persons are there – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; and the One God (God is One) is constantly there. That is doing theology based on the exegesis and thinking through the meaning of the texts and harmonizing them together in a rational and cohesive way.
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Ken Temple
You said;
Because the meaning of the word Tawheed exists in the Qur’aan.
I say;
You are wrong Ken. “God is One” is in the Quran. It might not mean tawheed. If it means tawheed, that is fine to those who use tawheed. God is clear He is 1.
Ken, Muslims worship “One God” and not Tawheed. We did not discover Tawheed is God. Tawheed is not God. The difference is that Trinitarian God is Trinity. Your God is not “One God ” but your God is Trinity.
“God is 3 persons in 1 God” is not in the Bible but “God is 1” is both in the Bible and Quran
Ken Temple, with all due respect, it is not about meaning bu clarity to what God said He is and it is clear God is 1.
If we are going to follow what you think is the meaning of God, the Rastafarians has the meaning of Trinity to include Emperor Haile Selaissie and Mormons have their multiple Gods.
If God wants us to worship Unitas Trinitas, He would have been clear about that like how He is very,very,very clear all over OT, NT and the Quran that He is 1, ONLY and ALONE.
Are the early Church fathers wiser than God? to know the Trinitas? but God did not know the Trinitas? God keeps saying “I am 1” without any Trinitas.
God said I am 1. That is what is clear and needs to follow but not tawheed or unitas or trinitas. Tawheed is used to teach and it has no 3,24,5………. whatsoever but the 1.
I am telling you today, our God is 1 but not Tawheed. Can you tell me your God is One but not Trinity?
You worship Trinity which is not in the Bible
Muslims do not worship Tawheed but worship Allah who is in the Quran and He is clearly 1. Muslim do not necessarily have to know Tawheed but every Muslim is supposed to know Allah is the only God to worship and He is 1, that is it.
Tawheed is for learning purposes. You might not know or worship tawheed as a Muslim and you are 100% Muslim if worship Allah alone and say He is 1 as is there in the Quran.
Do not ever compare Tawheed and Trinity-which is your God- 3 persons-which is not in the Bible.
Thanks.
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Ken Temple
You said;
The more precise Latin terminology in the early church was Trinitas Unitas and Unitas Trinitas.
The English word Trinity or Tri -Unitas is derived from the two Latin words. Unfortunately the English word Trinity feels like “Three” (because of “tri”), but the Unitas (One, Oneness, Unity) part is lost.
I say;
With all due respect and Rastafarian will say Nuff Respek, do not lie to Latin or English. They have nothing to do with your 3 Gods.Your God is 3 persons 1 God. You cannot worship God without 3.
Trinitas means 3 and your God cannot be God without Trinitas. It goes against the Bible because the Bible clearly said God is 1. It might be Unit or Unitas but might not be. I will take the Unit or Unitas just like tawheed because it is clear God is 1. Trinitas is 3 and there is no where in the Bible that says God is 3-That would be polytheism and idlolatry. If the Church Fathers have discovered God sending son, it is not a big deal. No one sends God.
If God is in relationship, not a big deal God is in relationship to all of us because He guides us all everyday.
Thanks.
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Because the meaning of the word Tawheed exists in the Qur’aan.
I just want to point out this wasn’t said by the Ken Temple, intellect.
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I am 20 years old what do I know, but if this is deliberate and intentional to have a go at Shahid pakistani indirectly that just wrong. Brother intellect.
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No Couple Before Nikah
Relax my brother. I am not dealing with you at all. How can I have a go at you when you are helping me to protect the truth-Islam?
Ken Temple wants us to believe if the meaning of Tawheed is in the Quran, then the meaning of Trinity or 3 persons 1 God is in the Bible.
I corrected Ken that what is in the Quran is “God is One” but it could be the meaning of Tawheed or not and so the right thing to say is “God is One” because that is in the Koran. If God is One is Tawheed then we do not worship Tauhid but Allah alone who is one. Tawheed is used to teach God is One but Tauhid itself is not God.
Unlike Trinity which means Trinitas Unitas, Triune, 3 persons 1 God etc. which is a Trinitarian God Himself, Tawheed is not a Muslim God but it is used to teach Allah is One.
A Muslims can say I never heard of Tawheed as you rightly said, but believe Allah is One, Only and Alone and still a Muslim, but a Trinitarian cannot say his God is not Trinity or Trinitas Unitas or 3 persons 1 God.
I am not throwing Tawheed out at all but I want to make the word less relevant, otherwise, Trinitarians will compare it with their Trinity.
I hope I have clarify my point. If you need any clarification from me, please let me know and I will clarify my point.
Thanks.
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No Couple Before Nikah
Sorry Brother. I am not against you at all. My intention was to make Tawheed look as a word not God unlike Trinitarians Trinity is God and is 3 persons 1 God. Tawheed is used for teaching. I know the relevance of Tawheed in Islam. Trinitarians compare it with Trinity which is God. Tawheed on the other hand is not God but it is used to teach Allah is 1.
Thanks.
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Nikah thinkyou were having go at me, that’s fine :). I don’t mind at all, I am here to learn. I am learning a lot here.
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