Queshi has been in the media eye recently. Perhaps surprisingly, experts in the field of Islamic studies have deigned to comment on his utterances. They are not impressed. First it was Professor Jonathan AC Brown. Now this:
Caner K Dagli is Professor of Islamic Studies at the College of the Holy Cross, USA, and serves as a general editor for the HarperCollins Study Quran.
Categories: Christian extremism, Islam
Blogging Theology 
Experts can see his ulterior motives and his lack of expertise a mile off!
Respect to both Dr Brown and Dr Dagli for calling Dr Nabeel out.
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I have been saying this for years. Thanks they are now coming out to make it clear. This guy Nabeel claims he did not know Islam until learning Islam from David Wood. Learning Islam from David Wood? What a joke and dishonest? Nabeel?
Thanks.
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Hadith – Sahih al-Bukhari 4364—says that “The last complete Surah which was revealed (to the Prophet) was Bara’a (“The Immunity” = 9, also known as Al Toubeh = Repentance.” (another Hadith says Surah 110 was the last one revealed. Other Islamic scholars say that a verse in Surah 5 was the last verse revealed.)
Context of Surah 9:28-30 – Seems to show that these verses were applied generally beyond the battle of Mu’tah and the expedition of Tabuk. (629-630 AD)
What is really interesting is verse 28 – “if you fear poverty, soon Allah will enrich you”. the reason for that was because Muhammad had conquered the Hijaz (the Arabian peninsula, especially around Mecca and Medina, and no pagans or idol worshippers were allowed. That means the Muslims could not get tax or penalty money from the pagans. Surah 9:5 – “fight the unbelievers where ever you find them”, proves this, and several Hadith that says “no two religions will be allowed on the Arabian peninsula” see Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 288, and other Hadiths) If it was only for one time and the pagans at that time, why did they continue to fight against everybody in history and continue to fight until stopped? (Conquering Byzantine, Persia, the Turks, etc. – Spain, attacked Vienna until stopped, wars vs. Hindus, etc. )
They were all killed or driven out or converted to Islam. So now, After Arabia was conquered, there is no revenue from the pilgrimages, so, according to verses 28-29, they will allow the Christians and Jews to be in the Islamic Caliphate state, provided they surrender and don’t fight/resist, and pay the Jiziye with humiliation, and they cannot evangelize or build new churches or even criticize Islam.
Qur’an 9:28—O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
Qur’an 9:29—Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Qur’an 9:30—The Jews call Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Ibn Kathir, The Battles of the Prophet, pp. 183-4— “Allah, Most High, ordered the believers to prohibit the disbelievers from entering or coming near the sacred Mosque. On that, Quraish thought that this would reduce their profits from trade. Therefore, Allah, Most High, compensated them and ordered them to fight the people of the Book until they embrace Islam or pay the Jizyah. Allah says, “O ye who believe! Truly the pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Therefore, the Messenger of Allah decided to fight the Romans in order to call them to Islam.”
Tafsir Ibn Kathir (on Qur’an 9:30)—”Fighting the Jews and Christians is legislated because they are idolaters and disbelievers. Allah the Exalted encourages the believers to fight the polytheists, disbelieving Jews and Christians, who uttered this terrible statement and utter lies against Allah, the Exalted. As for the Jews, they claimed that Uzayr was the son of God, Allah is free of what they attribute to Him. As for the misguidance of Christians over Isa, it is obvious.”
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Ken Temple
We have discussed this over and over. No one abrogates any verse in the Quran except Allah or the prophet Mohammed.
You, Nabeel Quraish or David Wood etc. have no right or intellectually equipped to abrogate any verse in the Quran. Did you get it right?
I have no right or intellectually equipped to abrogate any verse in the Bible. So, you have no right to abrogate any scripture until you claim you are a prophet of God or God Himself.
PLEASE YOU, NABEEL, DAVID WOOD AND MOST CHRISTIANS ARE FOUND ABROGATING OUR SCRIPTURES BUT NOT CLAIMING TO BE PROPHETS OF GOD.
ONLY GOD OR HIS PROPHETS CAN ABROGATE ANY VERSE IN SCRIPTURE.
Scholars who have studied and undergone all the necessary requirement can help us understand where there is any abrogation by God or prophet.
Later verses does not mean older verses are abrogated except specified by God or the prophet.
Ken, we discussed this here and all that you quoted do not mean any abrogation at all please. You are not intellectually equipped because you do not know classic Arabic, the science of hadith etc.
This is chapter 9 of the Quran. It is clear it is about a treaty with the Arab pagans at the time of our prophet and the chapter has verses that clearly states the opposite site must be saved if he is not aggressor.
(Ken you are dishonest to lie that it is about money. Ask Dr. John L. Esposito of Georgetown University who knows classical Arabic and is an Islamic scholar and a practicing Christian and he will call you a liar)
Surah Al-Tawba
Sahih International
[This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.
9:2 So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.
9:3 And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away – then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.
9:4 Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
9:5 And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
9:6 And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.
9:7 How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
9:8 How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.
9:9 They have exchanged the signs of Allah for a small price and averted [people] from His way. Indeed, it was evil that they were doing.
9:10 They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.
http://quran.com/9
This is an Islamic scholar who has passed all the requirements and has memorized the Quran and some hadith explaining things for You. Imam John has spoken of you who interpret Islamic literature without knowledge.
Thanks.
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The gist of this post is that you have to be formally trained in Islamic studies in order to understand its teachings. That means years of study in classical Arabic at the very least – most muslims have not and cannot do that.
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Respectfully i disagree. let me correct you, as there is a need here.
we muslims, need to be formally trained in Islamic studies in order to give a conclusive contention on anything. be it exegesis, jurisprudence, hadith, Sirah. any Islamic science holds the prerequisite that you have studied it for you to draw any conclusions.
Kahan F. Bodur,
B. of Islamic studies, CSU.
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John: The gist of this post is that you have to be formally trained in Islamic studies in order to understand its teachings
You got it all wrong, troll. At the very least, you have to be formally trained in Islamic studies if you want to be a teacher of Islam.
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John
You said;
The gist of this post is that you have to be formally trained in Islamic studies in order to understand its teachings. That means years of study in classical Arabic at the very least – most muslims have not and cannot do that.
I say;
“Understand its teachings”? No. You are wrong. Most Muslims understands Islamic teachings. The post is about scholars interpreting the scripture and other literature. They must know classical Arabic for sure as a starter but that is not enough but there are other important things which must be thoroughly learnt. It started from the time of our prophet Mohammed who taught his disciples everything about the religion and the Quran also advised Muslims to use their brain for sure.
After our prophet passed, his wives and disciples taught their disciples and the cycle continue till today. Sheikh Hamza Yusuf apart from attending Islamic Institutions, has to learn Islam from other scholars from country to country and that is true for most Muslim scholars.
Knowing our religion as Muslims which Most of us do is different than becoming expert in it and interpreting it just like any other faith like Christianity that has Pastors, Bishops, Reverends, Masters in Divinity etc.
A Muslim covert, sister Yvonne Ridley of Taliban and Lauren Booth of Tony Blair cannot start to write book on Christianity about the violence in NT and OT because they are ex-Christians, like Nabeel Quraish writing books as “expert” in Islam claiming to be ex-Muslim, supported by Ken Temple and evangelical Christians.
They will strongly argue sister Yvonne Ridley and Lauren Booth were not Christians to begin but will give Nabeel Quraish, Aayan Ali Hirsi, Irshad Manji etc. platform to speak and write books as stupid, idiots, lying “experts” of Islam.
The fact is that, most Muslims parents do take it as obligation to send their children to a formal Islamic school with the combination of the secular school and by the age of puberty most Muslim children fully understand islamic teachings.
Then, the child will decide whether to become an Islamic scholar or branch to another field. I have technical degrees but not Islamic scholar but have learnt my religion from Islamic school and speak some Arabic and memorized some verses in Arabic and understands them well.
I and any serious Muslim attend tafsir by expert scholars to know more about my religion and so about 99.9% Muslims understand the teachings of Islam.
Those small percentage of Muslims who do not attend formal Islamic school or those who learnt their Islam from David Wood or the likes of Bin Laden are the problem. They claim they are experts in Islam than anyone and writing books, writing opinions in newspapers, killing people in Paris, Belgium etc. speaking on Bill Maher’s show etc. and they know nothing about Islam but their wishful thinking for their whims and caprice.
Mark Hanson there. Hear the expert
Nabeel Quraish? Aayan Ali Hirsi? David Wood? They make me feel like vomiting.
Thanks.
.
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Its hilarious that anyone in the west like Hamza Yusuf who claims to be an influential scholar yet he’s the firstborn of his kind to convert to Islam versus coming from a background and being raised in Islamic family; especially one from the middle east. Moreoever, Hamza has been sanitized in the judeo Christian value system where we are taught to love our enemies not kill them; this is completely contradictory to what Islamic thought is; moreover there are diverse episodes and scenarios that play out depending on surrounding circumstances on which muslims will cooperate especially in the case where they are the underdogs and a minority like in America. Moreover how do muslims believe in the book that openly teaches and propagates violence; for fourteen hundred years Islamic militia mujahedeen have been conquering peoples until thank God Christian Europe stopped them at the gate of Vienna; if its a religion of peace then go back to Saudi Arabia and stay there
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what rubbish
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Adrianne
May be you are ignorant in Christianity and I mean both the Christian texts and Christians. You are wrong Europe under Christianity is not love your enemies. In Europe Christians will kill their enemies and kill themselves until the Christians had severe beatings and freedom of religion forced on them.
America is not different because a ship load of persecuted Jews fleeing Christian persecution in Europe was disallowed entry into the USA and the Jews were returned back to Europe to get some of them die in Holocaust.
American Christians turned to persecute Catholics, Mormons until stopped by the liberals. Today Muslims are under threat by evangelicals in the USA supported by kmac Christian commenter here. InshaAllah the wicked Christians will be stopped by God fearing people be they good Christians, good Jews, good liberals etc. like how the Christians were stopped.
Proof
-he Swiss Reformation began in 1519 with the sermons of Ulrich Zwingli, whose teachings largely paralleled Luther’s. In 1541 John Calvin, a French Protestant who had spent the previous decade in exile writing his “Institutes of the Christian Religion,” was invited to settle in Geneva and put his Reformed doctrine—which stressed God’s power and humanity’s predestined fate—into practice. The result was a theocratic regime of enforced, austere morality.
Calvin had to support the burning of a human being because he did not support the idea of Trinity
-Along with the religious consequences of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation came deep and lasting political changes. Northern Europe’s new religious and political freedoms came at a great cost, with decades of rebellions, wars and bloody persecutions. The Thirty Years’ War alone may have cost Germany 40 percent of its population
Source: http://www.history.com/topics/reformation
On the other hand, there are still non Muslims in Muslim majority lands that have lived with Muslims for centuries and still living today refuted your ignorance of Islam. It is in history than, the a Muslim sultan chartered ships to go to Europe and convey the persecuted Jews into Islamic territories.
It is not only Hamza Yusif who has a believe in non violence in Islam but other Islamic scholars not in the West but in the East if you will or in the Islamic world supports his idea before he Hamza Yusif was born.
Thanks.
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I’m desperate to see just one christian who believes in this
“to love our enemies not kill them”
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Intellect
I think that you have agreed with me on this – you cannot pick up the Islamic texts and come to understand the tenets through your own endeavours. You need an expert to spell it out.
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John
We know the tenets from our Islamic schools when we attanded. And Islam is continuous learning and we do it through tafsirs like the above, reading the Quran and other literature, then learning from our scholars.
It is not good to learn Islam from David Wood who do not know classical Arabic.
Thanks.
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Intellect
But can you learn Islam on your own by reading the Islamic texts?
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John
Yes, Arabic is part of formal Islamic lessons when we start as children. Any Muslim in this world knows some Arabic and memorized some Quran.
Our Islamic teachers write Arabic, speak Arabic fluently and taught us Arabic to understand Islam in Arabic. Some student have become good scholars with fluency in Arabic. Because of our faith, most Muslims speak and understand Arabic than some Arabs and you can see it above.
I cannot interpret any religion in an opinion section of a newspaper because I am not an expert in any religion. Doing that on a religion that I am not expert will make me a liar, dishonest and wicked.
The tenets of Abrahamic faith is very easy to understand from the Torah, NT and the Quran.
God is 1, only and alone and there is no one and nothing else.
Ten commandments is clear
Do not kill, Do not do this etc.
There are other things that needs expert guidance.
You cannot just pick a book of Chemistry and read and understand on your own. You need a chemistry teacher who knows periodic table, substance, matter etc. to explain it to you. So is religion, you have to go to school and know what God says he is in the scripture, how something happened at a certain time and why it happened.
Can Christians learn Christianity on their own by reading Greek? Hebrew? Aramaic? Latin?
Thanks.
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Intellect
I think that the vast majority of Muslims are unable to speak or understand Arabic. But you seem to be admitting that Islamic texts do not provide sufficient clarity to enable people to find the supposed truth contained therein with an “authority” telling them what things mean.
I don’t buy the idea that you have to be proficient in Arabic to truly understand the meaning of texts – that suggests that they are not objective truths that translate over cultures and languages.
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No. I said the vast majority of Muslims have Islamic schools teaching Arabic, writing Arabic and interpreting Arabic for every student who attends Islamic school. That is the mode of study of Islam from the time of our prophet till today. Some people go on to become scholars.
The rest understand the tenets of Islamic religion and continue to learn through tafsir, khutbar, recitations etc. The Quran clearly state we should use our brain too. If a scholar does not follow the Quran, we will know.
If someone like Nabeel is lying about Islam, we will know. I am not Islamic scholar but my understanding of Islam from Islamic school is enough to let me know Nabeel is lying and I keep saying it here for months and now Islamic scholar themselves have come out to point his lies to him and made it clear to him he does not understand Islam.
Thanks.
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Intellect,
I just quoted the AHadith, the Qur’an and the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir. The Tafsir of Ibn Kathir makes it clear as to how Surah 9:28-30 was applied beyond just the battle of Mu’tah and the expedition of Tabuk. I am not lying, just quoting your own Islamic scholars.
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Ken Temple
Ibn Kathir is not always right on everything. Remember, the Quran said clearly we should use our intellect. Christians take everything the Church Fathers says. No, Muslims have to use their brain as the Quran said to reject some things they think is nonsense from an Islamic scholar.
That is why you can find Jews and Christians in Muslims countries till today. The vast majority of Muslims did not take that nonsense some people like you believe that surah is about aggression to Jews, Christians or anyone.
It is completely nonsense and I hope you do not repeat it again because we discussed it here over and over.
How about the verses that clearly said Muslims must live with non Muslims? Christians will use Jizya. Some Christians and Jews are exempted from Jizya and so it is not about money. The Jews became more richer than Muslims even though they pay their tax(Jizya). There were poor Muslims too, in the caliphate. Not paying Jizya but paying Islamic series of taxes did not make Muslims richer than the Jews.
If you watched an expert Imam John Ederer above, he said like I was saying here that, Muslims are obligated to pay more tax in so many occasions and it would not be good to impose their religious duties to others but to let them pay just tax.
Ken, revenue is generated from all tax and so if Allah say they must pay Jizya, any society needs revenue from tax to make it maintain itself and some Jesus disciple was a tax collector.
Thanks.
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Other Islamic scholars agree that Surah 9:5 and 9:29 abrogate Surah 2:256 and 10:99.
“The scholars explained that these two verses, and other similar verses, have to do with those from whom the jizyah may be taken, such as Jews, Christians and Magians (Zoroastrians). They are not to be forced, rather they are to be given the choice between becoming Muslim or paying the jizyah.
Other scholars said that this applied in the beginning, but was subsequently abrogated by Allaah’s command to fight and wage jihad. So whoever refuses to enter Islam should be fought when the Muslims are able to fight, until they either enter Islam or pay the jizyah if they are among the people who may pay jizyah. The kuffaar should be compelled to enter Islam if they are not people from whom the jizyah may be taken, because that will lead to their happiness and salvation in this world and in the Hereafter. Obliging a person to adhere to the truth in which is guidance and happiness is better for him than falsehood. Just as a person may be forced to do the duty that he owes to other people even if that is by means of imprisonment or beating, so forcing the kaafirs to believe in Allaah alone and enter into the religion of Islam is more important and more essential, because this will lead to their happiness in this world and in the Hereafter. This applies unless they are People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians, or Magians, because Islam says that these three groups may be given the choice: they may enter Islam or they may pay the jizyah and feel themselves subdued.
Some of the scholars are of the view that others may also be given the choice between Islam and jizyah, but the most correct view is that no others should be given this choice, rather these three groups are the only ones who may be given the choice, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fought the kuffaar in the Arabian Peninsula and he only accepted their becoming Muslim. And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”
[al-Tawbah 9:5]
He did not say, “if they pay the jizyah”. The Jews, Christians and Magians are to be asked to enter Islam; if they refuse then they should be asked to pay the jizyah. If they refuse to pay the jizyah then the Muslims must fight them if they are able to do so. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allaah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”
[al-Tawbah 9:29]
And it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) accepted the jizyah from the Magians, but it was not proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) accepted the jizyah from anyone except the three groups mentioned above.
The basic principle concerning that is the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):
“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]”
[al-Anfaal 8:39]
“Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent [by rejecting Shirk (polytheism) and accept Islamic Monotheism] and perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”
[al-Tawbah 9:5]
This verse is known as Ayat al-Sayf (the verse of the sword).
These and similar verses abrogate the verses which say that there is no compulsion to become Muslim.
And Allaah is the Source of strength.”
Majmoo’ Fataawa wa Maqaalaat li’l-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 6/219
It’s all right there – 🙂
https://islamqa.info/en/34770
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Why this guy keep talking about the verse of the Sword abrogated peaceful verses, there is no consensus among the scholars? Does Sheikh Salih agree with that Fatwa? Have you read the fatwa Issued by him? this guy seems to me a big troll repeat old refuted nonsense to an ad nauseam extent.
Here is an abstract from the same website:
” It is not permissible for you to force your Christian wife – if you do marry her – to become Muslim. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taaghoot [falsehood, false gods] and believes in Allaah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allaah is All-Hearer, All-Knower”
[al-Baqarah 2:256]
Ibn Katheer said:
Allaah says: “There is no compulsion in religion” meaning: do not force anyone to enter Islam, for it is obvious and clear, and its proof and evidence are apparent. There is no need to force anyone to enter it, rather whomever Allaah guides to Islam and opens his heart to it and illuminates his insight will enter it with conviction; but whoever Allaah makes blind in his heart and seals his hearing and insight will not benefit from being compelled to enter the religion by force. They said that the reason for the revelation of this verse was concerning some people among the Ansaar, even though this ruling is general.
Tasfeer Ibn Katheer, 1/311 ” http://islamqa.info/en/20227
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Good points by Brother In Islam.
Guys like Ken have shown over and over again how they resort to selectively quoting the Quran, Ahadith and the tafsirs to confirm their own biases. An honest researcher would hold off on making idiotic judgments until doing exhaustive research. Case in point: Ken’s babble on Ibn Kathir’s commentary on Surah Tawbah. The fact is that Ibn Kathir says elsewhere very clearly that the “sword” verse has NOT abrogated the earlier verses. In his commentary on Surah Al-Baqarah, verse 190, Ibn Kathir states:
“Abu Ja`far Ar-Razi said that Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that Abu Al-`Aliyah commented on what Allah said:
﴿وَقَـتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ الَّذِينَ يُقَـتِلُونَكُمْ﴾
(And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you,)
Abu Al-`Aliyah said, “This was the first Ayah about fighting that was revealed in Al-Madinah. Ever since it was revealed, Allah’s Messenger used to fight only those who fought him and avoid non-combatants. Later, Surat Bara’ah (chapter 9 in the Qur’an) was revealed.” `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam said similarly, then he said that this was later abrogated by the Ayah:
﴿فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ﴾
(then kill them wherever you find them) (9:5).
However, this statement is not plausible, because Allah’s statement:
﴿الَّذِينَ يُقَـتِلُونَكُمْ﴾
(…those who fight you) applies only to fighting the enemies who are engaged in fighting Islam and its people. So the Ayah means, `Fight those who fight you’, just as Allah said (in another Ayah):
﴿وَقَاتِلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ كَآفَّةً كَمَا يُقَـتِلُونَكُمْ كَآفَّةً﴾
(…and fight against the Mushrikin collectively as they fight against you collectively.) (9:36)
This is why Allah said later in the Ayah:
﴿وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثَقِفْتُمُوهُمْ وَأَخْرِجُوهُمْ مِّنْ حَيْثُ أَخْرَجُوكُمْ﴾
(And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out.) meaning, `Your energy should be spent on fighting them, just as their energy is spent on fighting you, and on expelling them from the areas from which they have expelled you, as a law of equality in punishment.'”
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=235
So here, Ibn Kathir specifically stated that the “sword” verse did NOT abrogate the earlier verses, thereby disagreeing with other scholars who held those views!
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But on 9:28-29 Ibn Kathir said that the revenues from the pagans stopped (if you fear poverty), therefore Allah gave the command to attack the people of the book, and Allah will enrich you by getting the jiziyeh from them.
All it shows that there is lots of disagreement between scholars of Islam – some say this and some that; maybe that is why there is so much disagreement and fighting between Muslims (Shiite vs. Sunni; vs. Sufi, vs. western/liberal vs. Ahmadiye, Wahabi vs. everybody, etc. )
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But Ibn Kathir also said that Surah 9:5 was used by Abu Bakr to force the apostates to turn back to Islam and pay the Zakat.
“Abu Bakr As-Siddiq used this and other honorable Ayat as proof for fighting those who refrained from paying the Zakah.”
So, he did apply it to them, using force, in contradiction to Surah 2:256.
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hardly a contradiction. These were muslims. Calvin and Aquinas would have understood
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LOL, and there aren’t disagreements among Christians?! Don’t make me laugh, Ken!
The fact is that you were exposed for your shabby research. Instead of doing the right thing and admitting that you were wrong, you just changed gears and moved the goal post. Typical behavior of a deceptive Christian apologist.
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true. Be we love Ken all the more for it lol
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Ken Temple
You said;
All it shows that there is lots of disagreement between scholars of Islam – some say this and some that; maybe that is why there is so much disagreement and fighting between Muslims (Shiite vs. Sunni; vs. Sufi, vs. western/liberal vs. Ahmadiye, Wahabi vs. everybody, etc. )
I say;
You forgot disagreement among Christians? Arians, Ebionites etc. killed for rejecting Trinity. You forgot about that? You forgot Calvin ordering the killing of Michael and his body burnt?
Christians killing coptic Christians and burning their scriptures by considering them heretics and heresy.
You forgot the Roman Catholics persecution of protestants, only until the liberals, secularist, suppressed atheist ganged up and beat up the Christians and separated them?
You forgot the killings of Catholics by Christians in the USA in less than 80 years ago? Christians killing Mormons. Evangelical Christians killing black Christians they force converted and prevent them from entering white Churches.
You forgot the burning of black Churches by White evangelical Christians and recently one of the black Churches that suffered series of burning in the negro era was attacked by a white gun man who shot and killed black Christian congregation?
You forgot when the evangelical Christians campaign to stop John F. Kennedy to become president because he was a Catholic?
You forgot white evangelical Christians campaign to stop Obama from becoming a president because they thought he was a Muslim?
You forgot Donald Trump was a champion on that cause? and now Donald Trump is high in polls among evangelical Christians who support his hatred on anyone except white evangelical Christians who are the only ones he did not insult?
Radovan Karadzic was just sentenced a couple of days ago for massacring thousand of Muslims and no one is talking about that except killings at Belgium. The Belgium victims may their soul rest in peace are in the tens but Palestinians killed by the evangelical Christians support for zionism is in hundreds and no one is talking about it but to blame the Palestinians for Israel bulldozers and helicopter gunships.
FACT: DONALD TRUMP HAS INSULTED ANYONE EXCEPT THE WHITE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS AND JEWS.
This shows his is not a man of truth. He only insults the vulnerable less powerful minority people for his political agenda of course supported by the white evangelical Christians and the leader of KKK.
Back to topic. Disagreement on sura 9…… is a proof that it is not Ken what you and Nabeel preached it was. If Muslims vote about the sura we will win hands down.
If we believe it like how you believed it, all Muslims would have joined isis by now. Do you think the Muslims fighting isis do not fear God and believed the Quran?
Do you think Hamza Yusuf do not know classical Arabic and islam? God is 1, only and alone has no disagreement.
You, David Wood, Nabeel Quraish, Sam Shamoun etc. lied and did not say there is disagreement but said it is true and that is a lie.
AN INTELLECTUAL LIKE YOU MUST KNOW EVERY RELIGION IS DIVIDED ON MOST ISSUES AND NOT ISLAM ALONE AND THEREFORE IT IS THEOLOGICAL AND INTELLECTUAL BANKRUPTCY TO KEEP REPEATING THIS, when the topic is about a chapter of a Quran. Muslims disagreements on other issue has nothing to do with the topic.
Thanks.
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An epic response by brothe Intellect! You really put Ken in his place!
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I watched the Hamzeh Yusef video.
Hamzeh Yusef’s playing with the word, Al-nas الناس (people) (plural of Al-Insan الانسان = the human; seemed very forced. For the famous Hadith – Muhammad said, “I have been ordered to fight the people until they say “there is no god but Allah”.
I recognize a lot of those words he used, as we have them in Farsi also. 🙂
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Trump is a con-man and nut. I don’t support him at all.
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I agree that there is lots of disagreement within the house of Islam. But the problem is that too many follow those Muslims (some) who are terrorists like Al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Shabbab, Taliban, etc.
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Ken
Hamza Yusuf is an Islamic scholar who is totally fluent in Arabic.
You by your own admission do not speak the language.
So show some humility.
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Ken
Fact: too many Christians are terrorists killing innocent people around the world today. You ignore them.
These Christians force Muslims (and others) to convert to Christianity or they kill them.
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Arians and Ebionites were not killed. Some Arians were exiled.
They were not Christians.
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Calvin did not order the execution of Michael Servetus – the civil government did, and Calvin eventually agreed; but Calvin wrote letters to him when Servetus was in prison, pleading with him to repent. Also Calvin pleaded with the government to not burn him, but choose a more humane and swift form of execution; but they didn’t listen to him.
Of course I disagree with that (executing a heretic) anyway.
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“Fact: too many Christians are terrorists killing innocent people around the world today. You ignore them.”
before islam came, christians and jews used to kill each other and say nasty stuff to each other. hate, hate and hate.
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I condemn what those Africans are doing in Central African Republic and “the Lord’s Resistance Army” evil cult. I have not heard of any other so called “Christians” that are forcing anyone to become Christians.
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lol Ken don’t sugar coat history. Calvin wanted Servetus executed all along. Today we would call Calvin a terrorist.
And today there are so many many active Christian terror groups around the world killing Muslims and others unbelievers. Forcing them to convert to your faith. Yet you never mention them.
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“I have not heard of any other so called “Christians” that are forcing anyone to become Christians.”
ken, when jesus went around turning over tables in the temple, did all the traders miraculously become pacifists?
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It would be interesting to see a website of documentation of the Muslim scholars who agree that Surah 9:5 and 9:29 abrogate Surah 2:256, etc. and those that don’t, and what country they are from and their reasonings.
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OK Ken now lets look at the massive global problem of CHRISTIAN TERRORISM.
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From Wiki
Mark Juergensmeyer, a former president of the American Academy of Religion, has argued that there has been a global rise in religious nationalism after the Cold War due to a post-colonial collapse of confidence in Western models of nationalism and the rise of globalization.[17][18] Juergensmeyer categorizes contemporary Christian terrorists as being a part of “religious activists from Algeria to Idaho, who have come to hate secular governments with an almost transcendent passion and dream of revolutionary changes that will establish a godly social order in the rubble of what the citizens of most secular societies regard as modern, egalitarian democracies.”[19]
According to terrorism expert David C. Rapoport, a “religious wave”, or cycle, of terrorism, dates from approximately 1979 to the present. According to Rapoport, this wave most prominently features Islamic terrorism, but also includes terrorism by Christians and other religious groups that may have been influenced by Islamic terrorism.[20]
Central African Republic
See also: Central African Republic conflict under the Djotodia administration
Christian militia groups destroyed almost all mosques in the Central African Republic unrest.[21][22] In 2014, Amnesty International reported several massacres committed by the Anti-balaka against Muslim civilians, forcing thousands of Muslims to flee the country.[23][24][25] Other sources report incidents of Muslims being cannibalized.[26][27]
On 20 January 2014, Catherine Samba-Panza, the mayor of Bangui, was elected as the interim president in the second round voting.[28] The election of Samba-Panza was welcomed by Ban Ki-moon, the UN Secretary-General.[29] Samba-Panza was viewed as having been neutral and away from clan clashes.Her arrival to the presidency was generally accepted by the anti-balaka.Following the election, Samba-Panza made a speech in the parliament appealing to the anti-balaka for putting down their weapons.[30]
The next day anti-Muslim violence continued in Bangui,[31] just days after the Muslim former Health Minister Dr. Joseph Kalite was lynched outside the Central Mosque[32] and at least nine other people were killed when attacked when a mob, some of who were from Christian self-defence groups, looted shops in the Muslim-majority Miskine neighbourhood of Bangui.[33] As of 20 January, the ICRC reported that it had buried about 50 bodies within 48 hours.[34] It also came after a mob killed two people who they accused of being Muslim, then dragged the bodies through the streets and burnt them.[35] Within the previous month, about 1,000 people had died.[36] On 4 February 2014, a local priest said 75 people were killed in the town of Boda, in Lobaye province[37] In the southwest, anti-balaka militants attacked Guen in early February resulting in the deaths of 60 people, according to Father Rigobert Dolongo, who also said that he had helped bury the bodies of the dead, at least 27 of whom died on the first day of the attack and 43 others the next day. As a result, hundreds of Muslim refugees sought shelter at a church in Carnot.[38]
In May 2014, it was reported that around 600,000 people in CAR were internally displaced with 160,000 of these in the capital Bangui. The Muslim population of Bangui had dropped from 138,000 to 900. The national health system had collapsed and over half of the total population of 4.6 million were said to be in need of immediate aid. Also from December 2013 to May 2014, 100,000 people had fled to neighbouring Cameroon, Chad and the Democratic Republic of Congo bringing the number of CAR refugees in these countries to about 350,000[39] Amnesty International blamed the anti-balaka militia of causing a “Muslim exodus of historic proportions.[40] Some Muslims of the country were also weary of the French presence in MISCA, with the French accused of not doing enough to stop attacks by Christian militias. One of the cited reasons for the difficulty in stopping attacks by anti-balaka militias was the mob nature of these attacks[41]
India
Tripura
Further information: Tripura rebellion
The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), is a rebel group that seeks the secession of Tripura, North-East India, and is a proscribed terrorist organization in India. Group activities have been described as Christian terrorists engaging in terrorist violence motivated by their Christian beliefs.[42][43][44] The NLFT includes in its aims the forced conversion of all tribespeople in Tripura to Christianity.[45] The NLFT says that it is fighting not only for the removal of Bengali immigrants from the tribal areas, “but also for the tribal areas of the state to become overtly Christian”, and “has warned members of the tribal community that they may be attacked if they do not accept its Christian agenda”.[46] The NLFT is listed as a terrorist organization in the Prevention of Terrorism Act, 2002.[47] The state government contends that the Baptist Church of Tripura supplies arms and gives financial support to the NLFT.[48][49][50] Reports from the state government and Indian media describe activities such as the acquisition by the NLFT of explosives through the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura,[50] and threats of killing Hindus celebrating religious festivals.[51] Over 20 Hindus in Tripura were reported to have been killed by the NLFT from 1999 to 2001 for resisting forced conversion to Christianity.[52] According to Hindus in the area, there have also been forced conversions of tribal villagers to Christianity by armed NLFT militants.[52] These forcible conversions, sometimes including the use of “rape as a means of intimidation”, have also been noted by academics outside of India.[53] In 2000, the NLFT broke into a temple and gunned down a popular Hindu preacher popularly known as Shanti Kali.[54]
Nagaland
Further information: Ethnic conflict in Nagaland
The Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland (NSCN) is also a Christian[55] Naga nationalist Militant group operating in North India.[56][57] The main aim of the organization is to establish a sovereign Christian state, “Nagalim”[58] unifying all the areas inhabited by the Naga people in Northeast India and Burma.[59] The organization’s slogan is “Nagaland for Christ”.[60][61][62][63][64][65] Its manifesto is based on the principle of Socialism for economic development and a Baptist Christian religious outlook ‘Nagaland for Christ’.[66] In some of their documents the NSCN has called for recognizing only Christianity in Nagalim.[67] They believe in Christian theocracy.[68] The NSCN has been declared a terrorist organisation in India under the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, 1967.[69] It is believed that the organisation primarily raises funds through trafficking drugs from Burma and selling smuggled weapons to other insurgent groups in the region.[70] The group reportedly indulges in kidnapping, extortion and other terrorist activities.[71][72][73][74][75][76][77][78][79] NSCN is accused of carrying out the 1992–1993 ethnic cleansing of Kuki tribes in Manipur, said to have leave over 900 people dead. During that NSCN-IM operation, 350 Kuki villages were driven out and about 100,000 Kukis were turned into refugees[80]
On 3 August 2015 NSCN leader T. Muivah signed a peace accord with the Government of India in the presence of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, Home Minister Rajnath Singh, and NSA Ajit Doval.[81]
Assam
In 2009, several newspapers in Assam reported that about fifteen armed Hmar militants, members of the Manmasi National Christian Army, tried to force Hindu residents of Bhuvan Pahar, Assam to convert to Christianity[82][83][84]
Lebanon
Maronite Christian militias perpetrated the Karantina and Tel al-Zaatar massacres of Palestinians and Lebanese Muslims during Lebanon’s 1975–1990 civil war. The 1982 Sabra and Shatila massacre, which targeted unarmed Palestinian refugees for rape and murder, was considered to be genocide by the United Nations General Assembly.[85] A British photographer present during the incident said that “People who committed the acts of murder that I saw that day were wearing [crucifixes] and were calling themselves Christians.”[86]
Uganda
The Lord’s Resistance Army, a guerrilla army, was engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government in 2005. It has been accused of using child soldiers and of committing numerous crimes against humanity; including massacres, abductions, mutilation, torture, rape, and using forced child labourers as soldiers, porters, and sex slaves.[42][87] A quasi-religious movement that mixes some aspects of Christian beliefs with its own brand of spiritualism,[88][89] it is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the spokesperson of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the “Holy Spirit” which the Acholi believe can represent itself in many manifestations.[90][90][91][92] LRA fighters wear rosary beads and recite passages from the Bible before battle.[88][93][94][95][96][97]
United States
See also: Anti-abortion violence in the United States and Terrorism in the United States
Contemporary American Christian terrorism can be motivated by a violent desire to implement a Reconstructionist or Dominionist ideology.[98] Dominion Theology insists that Christians are called by God to (re)build society on Christian values to subjugate the earth and establish dominion over all things, as a pre-requisite for the second coming of Christ.[99] Political violence motivated by dominion theology is a violent extension of the desire to impose a select version of Christianity on other Christians, as well as on non-Christians.
After 1981, members of groups such as the Army of God began attacking abortion clinics and doctors across the United States.[100][101][102] A number of terrorist attacks were attributed by Bruce Hoffman to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ.[103] A group called Concerned Christians was deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999; they believed that their deaths would “lead them to heaven”.[104][105]
Eric Robert Rudolph carried out the Centennial Olympic Park bombing in 1996, as well as subsequent attacks on an abortion clinic and a lesbian nightclub. Michael Barkun, a professor at Syracuse University, considers Rudolph to likely fit the definition of a Christian terrorist. James A. Aho, a professor at Idaho State University, argues that religious considerations inspired Rudolph only in part.[106]
Terrorism scholar Aref M. Al-Khattar has listed The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord (CSA), Defensive Action, the Montana Freemen, and some “Christian militia” as groups that “can be placed under the category of far-right-wing terrorism” that “has a religious (Christian) component”.[107]
In 1996 three men—Charles Barbee, Robert Berry and Jay Merelle—were charged with two bank robberies and bombings at the banks, a Spokane newspaper, and a Planned Parenthood office in Washington State. The men were anti-Semitic Christian Identity theorists who believed that God wanted them to carry out violent attacks and that such attacks will hasten the ascendancy of the Aryan race.[108]
In 2011, analyst Daryl Johnson of the United States Department of Homeland Security said that the Hutaree Christian militia movement possessed more weapons than the combined weapons holdings of all Islamic terror defendants charged in the US since the September 11 attacks.[109]
In 2015, Robert Doggart, a 63 year old mechanical engineer, was indicted for solicitation to commit a civil rights violation by intending to damage or destroy religious property after communicating that he intended to amass weapons to attack a Muslim enclave in Delaware County, New York.[110] Doggart, a member of several private militia groups, communicated to an FBI source in a phone call that he had an M4 carbine with “500 rounds of ammunition” that he intended to take to the Delaware County enclave, along with a handgun, molotov cocktails and a machete. The FBI source recorded him saying “if it gets down to the machete, we will cut them to shreds.”[111] Doggart had previously travelled to a site in Dover, Tennessee described in chain emails as a “jihadist training camp”, and found that the claims were wrong. Doggart pleaded guilty in an April plea bargain stating he had “willfully and knowingly sent a message in interstate commerce containing a true threat” to injure someone. The plea bargain was struck down by a judge because it did not contain enough facts to constitute a true threat.[112][113] Doggart stood as an independent candidate in Tennessee’s 4th congressional district, losing with 6.4% of the vote.[114] He has a number of degrees from a degree mill and an ordination from an ordination mill. Various Muslim groups have declared Doggart a terrorist, though none of the charges against him are terrorism related.[115][116][117][118]
In November 2015, Robert Lewis Dear killed three and injured nine at the Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado.[119]Dear voiced on several occasions his support for radical Christian views and interpretations of the Bible, and praised people who attacked abortion providers, saying they were doing “God’s work.” He also described members of the Army of God, a loosely organized group of anti-abortion Christian extremists that has claimed responsibility for a number of killings and bombings, as heroes[120]In May 1991, Dear was arrested and convicted in Charleston, for the unlawful carrying of a “long blade knife” and illegal possession of a loaded gun.[121]A woman who was married to Dear from 1985 to 1993 told NBC News that Dear had targeted a Planned Parenthood clinic before, by putting glue on its locks, and had a history of violent behavior.In the court document for their 1993 divorce, his ex-wife said, “He claims to be a Christian and is extremely evangelistic, but does not follow the Bible in his actions. He says that as long as he believes he will be saved, he can do whatever he pleases. He is obsessed with the world coming to an end.
Global ideologies
See also: Anti-abortion violence, Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movement
Christian Identity is a loosely affiliated global group of churches and individuals devoted to a racialized theology which asserts that North European whites are the direct descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, God’s chosen people. It has been associated with groups such as the Aryan Nations, Aryan Republican Army, Army of God, Phineas Priesthood, and The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord. It has been cited as an influence on a number of terrorist attacks around the world, including the 2002 Soweto bombings.[122][123][124][125]
These groups are estimated to have 2,000 members in the United States,[126] and an unknown number in Canada and the rest of the British Commonwealth. Due to the promotion of Christian Identity doctrines through radio and later the Internet, an additional 50,000 unaffiliated individuals are thought to hold Christian Identity beliefs.[126] The primary spread of Christian Identity teachings is believed to be through white supremacist prison gangs.
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And today there are so many many active Christian terror groups around the world killing Muslims and others unbelievers. Forcing them to convert to your faith. Yet you never mention them.
What are you talking about? Aside from those in the Central African Republic and the Lord’s Resistance Army?
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I refer you to the MASSIVE list above
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walid shoebat is from the m east and he uses bible to justify bombing muslims, right?
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Ken Temple
You said;
I agree that there is lots of disagreement within the house of Islam. But the problem is that too many follow those Muslims (some) who are terrorists like Al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Shabbab, Taliban, etc.
I say;
There is a lot of disagreements in the house of Christ, hence most white evangelical Christians are supporting Donald Trump to trash everybody except white evangelical Christians alone like how the Christian ancestors did in Europe where there was no single Muslim or any religion there including other Christians except the dominant Christian alone.
What lot of disagreement is more than evangelical Christians killing everybody except themselves? They consider their race and religion is superior than anyone. They vote for war in Muslim lands to create isis and blame it on disagreement with Muslims, boko etc.
This disagreement were there but no isis, boko, al shabab etc. until the white supremacist evangelical Christians voted for Bush and forced him to go to a war which is based on lies just they thought they can convert Muslims during the war.
They could not convert Muslim adults, they turned to vulnerable children and women in refugee camps polluting them and brainwashing them to worship a man Jesus thinking their religion and race is superior and they are saving people.
They forced converted blacks and later discriminated about them by not allowing them in their Churches. Ken have you ever seen a black Mosque and a White Mosque?
Have you ever seen any Muslim in refugee camp with pamphlets on Islam to preach? except when to donate things for the refugees.
Visit Syria refugee camp and see Muslims only donating but Christians donating and pamphlets of Jesus as loving to the vulnerable children and their mothers to convert them under this situation. The evangelical Christians create war on Muslim countries to take the vulnerable to Christ because they can force convert them now like how they did in the past.
Leave peoples children for them. It is for them to teach them their religion and if they reach puberty and know right and wrong, you can preach them.
There is a lot of disagreement on the house of Jesus Christ and led to blood shed among Christians just on who Jesus is.
WHO JESUS is has caused Christians to kill themselves for centuries and who is right or wrong has Cause has caused a lot of disagreement among Christians and they continue to butcher and kill themselves until separated by force with the help of liberals, secularist who ganged themselves to defeat the Christians.
Thanks.
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and then in the recent past we see these horrendous acts of Christian terror:
Ku Klux Klan
After the American Civil War of 1861–1865, members of the Democratic Party (United States) organized the Protestant-led[12] Ku Klux Klan (KKK) organization and began engaging in arson, beatings, destruction of property, lynching, murder, rape, tar-and-feathering, whipping and intimidation via such means as cross burning. They targeted African Americans, Jews, Catholics, and other social or ethnic minorities.
Vehemently anti-Catholic, Klan members had an explicitly Protestant Christian terrorist ideology, basing their beliefs in part on a “religious foundation” in Protestant Christianity.[13] The goals of the KKK included, from an early time onward, an intent to “reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible”, and they believed that “Jesus was the first Klansman.”[14] From 1915 onward, Klansmen conducted cross-burnings not only to intimidate targets, but also to demonstrate their respect and reverence for Jesus Christ, and the ritual of lighting crosses was steeped in Christian symbolism, including prayer and singing hymns.[15] Within Christianity the Klan directed hostilities against Catholics. Modern Klan organizations remain associated with acts of domestic terrorism in the US.[16]
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“I have not heard of any other so called “Christians” that are forcing anyone to become Christians.”
ken, when jesus went around turning over tables in the temple, did all the traders miraculously become pacifists?
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I’ve mentioned the following link before:
http://aattp.org/here-are-8-christian-terrorist-organizations-that-equal-isis/
Ken and other Christian apologists are just blind hypocrites who resort to double standards and deception to spread their propaganda. Of course, one can’t blame them. Their mentor Paul, the true founder of Christianity, was not above lying to spread the Christian agenda!
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“They could not convert Muslim adults, they turned to vulnerable children and women in refugee camps polluting them and brainwashing them to worship a man Jesus thinking their religion and race is superior and they are saving people.”
we need to do more to combat this sickness.
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Ken have you ever seen a black Mosque and a White Mosque?
well, yes; the “Nation of Islam” – Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farakan. They are black racists. I know they are not true Muslims. They killed Malcolm X for his stand against them.
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Here are 8 Christian Terrorist Organizations That Equal ISIS
The right-wing is quick to condemn all of Islam like it’s a singular entity, and hold every Muslim accountable for the actions of a handful bad apples. As I’ve often said, no one religion — not even Buddhism — has the “right” to claim they’re non-violent. Holy War is one of those things that cuts across all religions equally. And while you can point this out to right-wingers, they won’t listen: they’re quick to invoke Boko Haram, ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Al-Sheebab, or some other terrorist agency and pretend they’re the sum total of all Muslims.
Well, there are Christian terrorist agencies that are just as scary, and some of them just as bad if not worse, than ISIS. A few of these you may have heard of, but since our so-called “liberal media” gets cold feet at naming Christian Terrorism what it is, some of them slip under the radar or aren’t as associated with Christian terrorism as they should be in the popular imagination.
8. Lord’s Resistance Army
Active: 1980s-Present, about 30 years
Who are they? The Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA) is a Christian Fundamentalist terrorist group originally from Uganda, but now active in the Sudan, the Central African Republic, and other places. Uganda, you may remember, is a hotbed of Christian Fundamentalism, so it makes sense that a group who calls themselves “Christianist” would come from the country. The LRA surfaced in the popular conscious sometime ago when Joesph Kony suddenly became a meme on the internet; up to that point, their main claim to fame is child sex slaves and children soldiers. Indeed, the LRA is known to orchestrate kidnappings, railroading young boys into fighting while forcing young girls into sexual slavery. Those who refused to fight were hacked to pieces. The young girls are forced to be “brides” for the soldiers, and thus helping to spread HIV. They’re especially brutal towards civilians, as well, wiping out entire villages and attacking refugee camps.
The goal of the LRA is pretty straight froward: they want a Bible-based state that uses the Ten Commandments as guide posts. That’s something any right-wing politician or Christianist can sympathize with, right?
7. Ku Klux Klan
Active: 1860s-Present, 149 years
Who are they? These guys don’t need any introduction; every American knows who the Invisible Empire is. The Klan name probably comes from the Ancient Greek ‘κύκλος‘ (kuklos), which means “circle.” There’s a frightening overlap between White Supremacist ideology and Christian terrorism in the Western World, and the Klan is the tip of that iceberg. There’ve actually been three Klans; the first one was formed in 1865, in Pulaski, and drew on former members of the Confederacy Army. They were a vigilante group, and they wore the sheets as a reminder of their fellow Confederates who died (think the classic “sheet ghost” and you’re not far off). Everything about the Klan is geared towards terrorism and psychological war, from the uniform to the cross burning. And while it’s true the Klan got their start as an arm of the Democratic Party, it was back when the Republicans were Theodore Roosevelt and not Sarah Palin, so I dare you to tell a modern Klansman they voted for Barack Obama.
While the Klan started out hunting down and terrorizing freemen and women, that wasn’t their sole target. The Klan is a far right-wing Protestant organization, and being a Protestant organization, they hate Catholics. As a result, Klan has targeted both Catholics and Jews in the (not-so-distant) past. The KKK’s history is so violent, in fact, that many draw a comparison between the KKK and Al Qaeda, although I think that’s an unfair comparison, as I’ll explain below.
6. National Liberation Front of Tripura
Active: 1989 to present, about 30 years
Who are they? You’ve probably heard of the Lord’s Resistance Army and the KKK, but this is a group that I’m pretty sure you haven’t, unless you’re from India. It’s easy for us to forget, as Americans, just how big India is; it’s far more diverse than Europe is, culturally speaking, and it’s roughly the same size. It’s called the “world’s largest democracy” for a reason, but as the United States shows, no democracy is without it’s secessionists. And these folks are just some of the many secessionist organizations in India.
According to their manifesto, the NLFT wants ” to expand the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura,” and often does so at the point of a gun. They threatened anyone celebrating the Hindu Festival of Durga Puja with death, and are backed by a Baptist Church that’s selling them arms. They’ve orchestrated at least two massacres, and used rape as a tool of intimidation. While the Nayanbasi faction has been shut down, the Biswamohan faction has promised to fight on. So here we have a Christian terrorist group spreading their faith in India “by sword,” metaphorically, and at the point of a gun more prosaically — small wonder we haven’t heard anything about them in the West, huh?
5. Antibalaka
Active: 1990s to present, about 25 years
Who are they? I’ve cited the Central African Genocide in at least two articles now; these are the militia behind that genocide. Their name means “anti-machete” in the Sango and Mandja languages, and they first formed to defend Christians and Animists who were on the receiving end of politically motivated violence carried out by Muslims. As these things often do, the tables turned, and now the Antibalaka is doing what right-wingers only wish they could do: ethnically cleanse their country of all Muslims. This includes children, who they’ve targeted and murdered in the past. Now, the Antibalaka now stand accused of crimes far worse than anything that Séléka, the Muslim rebel group, are guilty of.
4. Catholic Reaction Force/Protestant Action Force
Active: 1983 till 1994; at least 2002 for other groups using the CRF name; 1970s till 1990s for PAF
Who are they? Really, anytime some claims that Christians aren’t violent, all you have to do is direct them to Ireland. I could do a whole entry on what happened in North Ireland, beginning in the 1970s. Americans like to pretend that Eire is Guinness, the Blarney Stone, and leprechauns, but during the 1970s, religious violence a la the Thirty Years’ War was painting the Emerald Isle ruby red. The Irish call this time period The Troubles, and that’s an understatement if there ever was one.
The Provisional IRA is perhaps the best known terrorist agency from the period and would definitely earn their spot on this list, if I weren’t aiming for more obscure groups, but the Catholic Reaction Force and Protestant Action Force were also active and, in the case of the latter, also responsible for a large number of murders. For those who are unfamiliar with the Troubles, it occurred in North Ireland and, as so many European conflicts do, pitted Protestants against Catholics in unmitigated bloodshed. The CRF was behind the Darkley killings, in addition to several mailed bombings in the early 2000s. The PAF, which was far more effective in their killings, has a rap sheet a mile long. You can find it on the Wikipedia page, here.
3. The Orange Volunteers
Active: Early 1970s to Present, about 40 years
Who are they: We’re staying in Ireland for this next group. Fans of science fiction probably remember the Orange Catholic Bible from Frank Herbert’s Dune, but may never have understood why that name was so subversive, or why it was similar to Herbert’s other Coca-Pepsi religious hybrids like Zensunni. Orange is the color of Protestantism in Ireland, and green is the color of Catholicism; when you wear green on St. Patty’s Day, you’re proclaiming your Catholic heritage. The Orange Volunteers, then, are a Protestant terrorist organization.
The OV are Protestant Fundamentalist, and responsible for a number of violent attacks in North Ireland. While the police have been cracking down on the group, the group is still considered to be active and is still terrorizing Catholic citizens and hitting “soft targets.”
2. The Aryan Nations
Active: Unknown, to the Present
Who are they? “The Aryan Nations” is an umbrella agency that nets a large number of White and Christian Supremacist agencies ranging from certain breeds of Neo-Nazi to the KKK itself. It’s heyday was in the 1980s and the 1990s, when various White Nationalist groups would convene at the group’s Idaho compound for their annual congress.
The Aryan Nations got their start in the Christian Identity movement, but has since fractured into no fewer than three factions, with one faction even looking to buddy-buddy with Al-Qaeda in 2005. The Phineas Priesthood is another branch, and they’ve made headlines here on AATTP before. The last faction is the Aryan Nation Revival, which holds to their Christian Identity heritage like small-town Conservatives cling to their guns and Bibles.
1. The Christian Identity Movement
Active: 1920/1930s to Present, about 95 years
Who are they? When you’re dealing with White Nationalism and White Supremacy in the United States, it’s turtles all the way down, but you can almost certainly find God at the top of the heap. That’s what the Christian Identity Movement is; it’s not necessarily an organization so much as it is a loose affiliation of organizations like the Aryan Nations.
The Christian Identity Movement is a very weird movement; they actually have hostile relations with Evangelicals and other charismatic Protestants — not because they’re racist bigots, no; it’s because the CIM is Post-Millennial, where the vast majority of Evangelicals are Pre-Millennial. This distinction is lost on anyone who hasn’t studied the Scofield-Derby Heresies, but the basic idea is that the Tribulation has already occurred and the goal is to build up the world to the second coming. Their theology is just as skewed, though; for instance, members of the CIM believe that non-Caucasians don’t have souls, and therefore, can’t be saved.
The CIM is made up of various Christian terrorist organizations, like Americans Promise Ministries, who are responsible for terrorist attacks and bank robberies; the aforementioned Aryan Nations; the Covenant, the Sword, and the Arm of the Lord; the Oklahoma Constitution Militia; and the South African Groups that were behind the 2002 Soweto bombings.
This group is why I consider the comparison between the KKK and Al-Qaeda to be unfair. The CIM is a worldwide movement, with adherents across the Commonwealth and former-Commonwealth Countries, as well as the United States, and is responsible for ideologically motivated terrorism. This, I think, makes the Christian Identity Movement a much better comparison to Al-Qaeda than the KKK.
So this is it?
Nope. There are hundreds more. I mentioned a few of them in the article — the Covenant, the Sword, and the Arm of the Lord, the Oklahoma Constitution Militia, and the Provisional IRA are just a few who didn’t get entries but deserve noting anyway. By now it should be apparent to anyone watching that Christian Terrorism is a thing, it exists, and it’s just as bad and widespread as Islamic Terrorism. The only difference between Christian Terrorism and Islamic terrorism is that Christian Terrorism never makes the evening news.
Source: http://aattp.org/here-are-8-christian-terrorist-organizations-that-equal-isis/
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“well, yes; the “Nation of Islam” – Elijah Muhammad and Louis Farakan. They are black racists. I know they are not true Muslims. They killed Malcolm X for his stand against them.”
they are black christians worshiping black person. where do you think worship of human being comes from? christianity.
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The KKK was totally condemned and almost non-existent today. They were not Christians. I don’t believe any of them were truly born again.
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Ken I’m not really interested in you takfiring all these Christian terror groups around the world.
My point is to highlight how Christians are persecuting Muslims on a massive scale today and forcing them to convert to Christianity – or face death.
Your media ignores all this.
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The KKK is not “almost non-existent”. It still exists, though it’s not as powerful as it used to be. Ken, when will you stop with the deception and double standards? Why not have some decency and admit that your views are erroneous?
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Ken comes from a religious community that world-wide is engaged in many shocking acts of terrorism, persecution of Muslims, and forced conversions.
But I totally accept that he personally is not involved in this and distances himself from them.
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I appreciate the second part, but even the first part of your statement is totally untrue. Those nut groups have nothing to do with my religious community.
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glad you disown them Ken. We must all fight against Christian extremism and terrorism.
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Well Ken, they feel exactly the opposite. They feel that they are the true Christians.
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there are many horrendous texts in the Bible that advocate genocide and killing of unbelievers.
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Like Christians of the Appalachian who believe they are true Christians by dancing with poisonous snakes in the name of Jesus Christ as is stated in the NT(New Testament). Then poisonous snakes keep killing them one by one.
Ken is not a true Christian because he does not follow the NT to dance with rattle snake and black cobra coiled around his neck.
In all seriousness let all fight terrorist in all religions, liars, haters, wicked etc. We will not mind calling isis killers but Ken will not call Nabeel Quraish a liar except poor Donald Trump who is not spreading Christianity but Nabeel preaches with lies.
Thanks
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With the name of Allah
KT: //Intellect,
I just quoted the AHadith, the Qur’an and the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir. The Tafsir of Ibn Kathir makes it clear as to how Surah 9:28-30 was applied beyond just the battle of Mu’tah and the expedition of Tabuk. I am not lying, just quoting your own Islamic scholars.//
Where did Temple get the idea that Surah 9:28-30 in Ibn Kathir commentary was applied beyond the expedition of Tabuk ??
Here is Ibn Kathir original commentary and it is clear that he connects this verse with the Tabūk expedition.:
أَمَرَ اللَّه رَسُوله بِقِتَالِ أَهْل الْكِتَابَيْنِ الْيَهُود وَالنَّصَارَى وَكَانَ ذَلِكَ فِي سَنَة تِسْع وَلِهَذَا تَجَهَّزَ رَسُول اللَّه صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لِقِتَالِ الرُّوم وَدَعَا النَّاس إِلَى ذَلِكَ وَأَظْهَرَهُ لَهُمْ وَبَعَثَ إِلَى أَحْيَاء الْعَرَب حَوْل الْمَدِينَة فَنَدَبَهُمْ فَأَوْعَبُوا مَعَهُ وَاجْتَمَعَ مِنْ الْمُقَاتِلَة نَحْو مِنْ ثَلَاثِينَ أَلْفًا وَتَخَلَّفَ بَعْض النَّاس مِنْ أَهْل الْمَدِينَة وَمَنْ حَوْلهَا مِنْ الْمُنَافِقِينَ وَغَيْرهمْ وَكَانَ ذَلِكَ فِي عَام جَدْب وَوَقْت قَيْظ وَحَرّ وَخَرَجَ رَسُول اللَّه صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ يُرِيد الشَّام لِقِتَالِ الرُّوم فَبَلَغَ تَبُوك فَنَزَلَ بِهَا وَأَقَامَ بِهَا قَرِيبًا مِنْ عِشْرِينَ يَوْمًا ثُمَّ اِسْتَخَارَ اللَّه فِي الرُّجُوع فَرَجَعَ عَامه ذَلِكَ لِضِيقِ الْحَال وَضَعْف النَّاس كَمَا سَيَأْتِي بَيَانه بَعْد إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّه تَعَالَى
Here Ibn Kathir says the reason this verse is revealed was to fight the Romans (the byzantine) then the Prophet summoned various Arab areas around Madinah to gather forces an army of thirty thousand, and the Prophet of Allah head towards Ash-Shamand he reached Tabuk, where he set camp for about twenty days next to it. The Prophet then prayed to Allah for a decision and went back to Madinah.
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Ibn Kathir was clearly referring to the Tabuk expediton. Another lies “made in Temple”.
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