On the great Martin Luther, hero of evangelical Christians.

lossy-page1-600px-Martin_Luther_by_Cranach-restoration.tifMartin Luther (November 1483 – February 1546) was a German professor of theology, priest, monk and a seminal figure in the Protestant Reformation. Luther came to reject many of the teachings and practices of the Medieval Catholic Church. Many evangelicals today see him as a great Spirit-filled Christian and sure guide to the gospel truth. 

However he had a dark side. Wikipedia comments:

Luther denounced the Jewish people and urged for their harsh persecution and destruction. In a paragraph from his On the Jews and Their Lies he deplores Christendom’s failure to expel them.[1] Moreover, he proposed “What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews”:[1]

  • “First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools … This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians …”
  • “Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed.”
  • “Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them.”
  • “Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb …”
  • “Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside …”
  • “Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them …”
  • “Seventh, I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow … But if we are afraid that they might harm us or our wives, children, servants, cattle, etc., … then let us emulate the common sense of other nations such as France, Spain, Bohemia, etc., … then eject them forever from the country …”

On the Jews and Their Lies

In 1543 Luther published On the Jews and Their Lies in which he says that the Jews are a “base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth.”[13] They are full of the “devil’s faeces … which they wallow in like swine.”[14] The synagogue was a “defiled bride, yes, an incorrigible whore and an evil slut …”[15] He argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness,[16] afforded no legal protection,[17] and these “poisonous envenomed worms” should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time.[18] He also seems to advocate their murder, writing “[w]e are at fault in not slaying them”.[19] Luther calls prophet Jeremiah a heretic: “Jeremiah, you wretched heretic, you seducer and false prophet”. He claims that Jewish history was “assailed by much heresy”, and that Christ the logos swept away the Jewish heresy and goes on to do so, “as it still does daily before our eyes.” He stigmatizes Jewish Prayer as being “blasphemous” (sic) and a lie, and vilifies Jews in general as being spiritually “blind” and “surely possessed by all devils.” Luther has a special spiritual problem with Jewish circumcision.[20][21]

The prevailing view[30] among historians is that Luther’s anti-Jewish rhetoric contributed significantly to the development of antisemitism in Germany,[31] and in the 1930s and 1940s provided an ideal foundation for the Nazi Party‘s attacks on Jews.[32] Reinhold Lewin writes that “whoever wrote against the Jews for whatever reason believed he had the right to justify himself by triumphantly referring to Luther.” According to Michael, just about every anti-Jewish book printed in the Third Reich contained references to and quotations from Luther. Diarmaid MacCulloch argues that Luther’s 1543 pamphlet On the Jews and Their Lies was a “blueprint” for the Kristallnacht.[33]Shortly after the Kristallnacht, Martin Sasse, Bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Thuringia, published a compendium of Martin Luther‘s writings ; Sasse “applauded the burning of the synagogues” and the coincidence of the day, writing in the introduction, “On November 10, 1938, on Luther’s birthday, the synagogues are burning in Germany.” The German people, he urged, ought to heed these words “of the greatest anti-Semite of his time, the warner of his people against the Jews.”[34]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_and_antisemitism



Categories: Christian extremism, Judaism

38 replies

  1. What irony his God is a Jew …

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  2. Luther was wrong on that and sinned greatly. I totally condemn that booklet of Luther’s. It indeed was used to great harm later. He wrote that against the Jews at the end of his life – he was getting crusty and old. He wrote that awful booklet against the Jews around 1543 and he died in 1546. Earlier, he wrote well of the Jews and said Christians needed to treat them kindly and seek to share Christ with them.

    People came centuries later and used that writing, yes. It is one of the very bad sins of history.

    Some Muslims also like those words and also have Hadith that say: “the trees and rocks will cry out: there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. . . .fighting and killing the Jews will not stop until the day of resurrection.

    Those are Sahih Hadith. Here is some of them.

    Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:
    The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

    حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا يَعْقُوبُ، – يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ – عَنْ سُهَيْلٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ “‏ لاَ تَقُومُ السَّاعَةُ حَتَّى يُقَاتِلَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ الْيَهُودَ فَيَقْتُلُهُمُ الْمُسْلِمُونَ حَتَّى يَخْتَبِئَ الْيَهُودِيُّ مِنْ وَرَاءِ الْحَجَرِ وَالشَّجَرِ فَيَقُولُ الْحَجَرُ أَوِ الشَّجَرُ يَا مُسْلِمُ يَا عَبْدَ اللَّهِ هَذَا يَهُودِيٌّ خَلْفِي فَتَعَالَ فَاقْتُلْهُ ‏.‏ إِلاَّ الْغَرْقَدَ فَإِنَّهُ مِنْ شَجَرِ الْيَهُودِ ‏”‏ ‏.‏

    Reference : Sahih Muslim 2922
    In-book reference : Book 54, Hadith 105
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 41, Hadith 6985

    Sahih Muslim 41:6985, see also Sahih Muslim 41:6981, Sahih Muslim 41:6982, Sahih Muslim 41:6983, Sahih Muslim 41:6984, and Sahih Bukhari 4:56:791

    But again, my comments were in the context of what Dr. Jonathan Brown (see lecture that Paul W. put up and has no comment boxes – “the message of peace – spread by the sword?”) and Yasir Qadhi (see on “sex-maids”, concubines – it is all there on You Tube – at least Yasir Qadhi had the courage to talk about it; good for him) said about the early wars that Muslims made for the first 100 + years – “from the death of the prophet to the battle of Talas in 751” – Brown admitted that was a war-like period.

    Someone in the audience asked about the Bosnian brigades that joined with Hitler during WW 2 and Dr. Brown agreed.

    But the British were there because the Ottoman Turks sided with Germany in WW I, and they were wrong. Germany and the Ottomans were wrong and they were justly punished. The Ottoman Empire was broken up justly and they were punished for siding with Germany, who was the main evil empire and aggressors of WW I. The Arabs also wanted the Ottoman Turks out.

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  3. People are not infallible. Christians are not infallible. We can judge Luther’s writings and accept the good points (95 theses, justification by faith alone against the Roman Catholic Church; and sola Scriptura, priesthood of the believer, etc.) and we can judge what was wrong. (his booklet against the Jews)

    But you have a bigger problem because that Anti-Jew character is built into the Hadith in those Sahih Hadith; and many Qur’an verses also. Your problem is the anti-Jew character is built into your “infallible Scriptures”, whereas Luther was just a sinful man who is not infallible Scripture.

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    • “People are not infallible. Christians are not infallible.” That’s obvious. But then the claims of being “born again” exclusively, being “inhabited by God” exclusively, having a “personal relationship with God”exclusively etc. become more than questionable

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    • Ken I notice you are not answering my question:

      Are you saying a man can be demonic and evil and be a born again spirit filled Christian at the same time?

      I think this is very unlikely. So Luther was clearly not a Christian for much of his adult life

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    • There is a difference between nature/character vs. one bad action or bad writing or bad book. No, born again Christians cannot be possessed by the Devil or have their nature changed(1 John 5:18-20); but they can do bad actions and bad things, and the devil can tempt people to do bad things (see also Matthew 16:21-24 where Jesus rebukes Peter for focusing on human thinking, rather than God’s will and Jesus says, “Get behind Me Satan” – Jesus means Satan is acting on Peter in that one specific act, not that he actually became Satan.) like that when they are weak and old and cranky and demented and hurting from constant sickness and pain, etc. Luther had the cranky old man problem as a result of failing health and constant pain, at the end of his life.

      But you have a deeper problem, because your infallible Scriptures and sources (Sahih Hadith ) say anti-Jews as people things. That is much worse than the sins of a human; your Scriptures actually sin.

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    • A man who says about Jewish people…

      “First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools … This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians …”

      “Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed.”

      “Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them.”

      “Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb …”
      “Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside …”

      …is hardly a Christian. By their fruits you shall know them. He was a child of Satan. Just ask any Jew.

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  4. Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, “We are Christians”: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
    Qur’an Surah 5:82

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  5. I answered your question; now answer mine:

    How can your Sahih Hadiths have this? and your infallible Scripture have Surah 5:82?

    Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:
    The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

    حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا يَعْقُوبُ، – يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ – عَنْ سُهَيْلٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ “‏ لاَ تَقُومُ السَّاعَةُ حَتَّى يُقَاتِلَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ الْيَهُودَ فَيَقْتُلُهُمُ الْمُسْلِمُونَ حَتَّى يَخْتَبِئَ الْيَهُودِيُّ مِنْ وَرَاءِ الْحَجَرِ وَالشَّجَرِ فَيَقُولُ الْحَجَرُ أَوِ الشَّجَرُ يَا مُسْلِمُ يَا عَبْدَ اللَّهِ هَذَا يَهُودِيٌّ خَلْفِي فَتَعَالَ فَاقْتُلْهُ ‏.‏ إِلاَّ الْغَرْقَدَ فَإِنَّهُ مِنْ شَجَرِ الْيَهُودِ ‏”‏ ‏.‏

    Reference : Sahih Muslim 2922
    In-book reference : Book 54, Hadith 105
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 41, Hadith 6985

    Sahih Muslim 41:6985, see also Sahih Muslim 41:6981, Sahih Muslim 41:6982, Sahih Muslim 41:6983, Sahih Muslim 41:6984, and Sahih Bukhari 4:56:791

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    • Surah 5:82 says what it says and I don’t share your strange outrage about it.

      This is a perplexing hadith. I would need to know more about its context. Why were some (or all?) Muslims and Jews fighting each other? What was the cause of the conflict?

      There are many other hadiths that speak respectfully of the Jews as a people. This eschatological hadith dealing with the end times has miraculous stones and trees talking to men – it is not how Muslims and Jews are required to live together today ie peaceably and justly as numerous ayat in the Quran exhort.

      See discussion below:

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    • Hadith of the Gharqad Tree: Is it a good deed to kill Jews in Islam?

      By Abu Amina Elias for FaithinAllah.org

      Question:

      There is a hadith that says, “You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: come here, O Muslim, there is a Jew, so kill him.”

      Does this mean killing Jews is a good deed in Islam?

      Answer:

      In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

      This narration is describing a specific miraculous event which will occur near the end of time. It is not a narration from which is derived a legal ruling. In other words, this narration is a description, not a prescription. For this reason, the scholars recorded this narration in the books of tribulations near the end of time and portents of the Hour. They did not record it in the books of legal punishment.

      As another narration makes clear, this is a group of unbelieving Jews who are followers of the False Messiah, a man who will claim to be God. These Jews do not believe in their own scriptures, let alone Islam. Jesus, peace and blessings be upon him, is recorded as saying:

      أَنَّ الدَّجَّالَ خَارِجٌ قَالَ وَمَعِي قَضِيبَانِ فَإِذَا رَآنِي ذَابَ كَمَا يَذُوبُ الرَّصَاصُ قَالَ فَيُهْلِكُهُ اللَّهُ حَتَّى إِنَّ الْحَجَرَ وَالشَّجَرَ لَيَقُولُ يَا مُسْلِمُ إِنَّ تَحْتِي كَافِرًا فَتَعَالَ فَاقْتُلْهُ قَالَ فَيُهْلِكُهُمْ اللَّهُ

      The False Messiah will emerge and I will have with me two bars, so when he sees me he will melt away like the melting of lead. Allah will destroy him until the stone and the tree say: O Muslim, underneath me is an unbeliever, so slay him. Thus, Allah will destroy them.

      Source: Musnad Ahmad 3546, Grade: Sahih

      It is these particular Jews, not all Jews, whom the believers will fight and will be aided with miracles from Allah. The Quran is careful to distinguish between righteous and sinful Jews.

      Allah said:

      لَيْسُوا سَوَاءً مِّنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ أُمَّةٌ قَائِمَةٌ يَتْلُونَ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ آنَاءَ اللَّيْلِ وَهُمْ يَسْجُدُونَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَيَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ وَيُسَارِعُونَ فِي الْخَيْرَاتِ وَأُولَٰئِكَ مِنَ الصَّالِحِينَ وَمَا يَفْعَلُوا مِنْ خَيْرٍ فَلَن يُكْفَرُوهُ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ بِالْمُتَّقِينَ

      They are not all the same; among the People of the Scripture is a community standing, reciting the verses of Allah during periods of the night and prostrating in prayer. They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and hasten to good deeds; and those are among the righteous. Whatever good they do – never will it be removed from them; and Allah knows the righteous.

      Surah Ali Imran 3:113-115

      In another verse, Allah praises the Jews who uphold the teachings of Moses:

      وَمِن قَوْمِ مُوسَىٰ أُمَّةٌ يَهْدُونَ بِالْحَقِّ وَبِهِ يَعْدِلُونَ

      Among the people of Moses is a community which guides by truth and by it establishes justice.

      Surah Al-A’raf 7:159

      Muslims have been encouraged to behave well with these peaceful Jews, and indeed all people of different religions who seek peace.

      Allah said:

      لَّا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ إِنَّمَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ قَاتَلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَأَخْرَجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ وَظَاهَرُوا عَلَىٰ إِخْرَاجِكُمْ أَن تَوَلَّوْهُمْ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُمْ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ

      Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes – from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion – He forbids that you make allies of them; and whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

      Surah Al-Mumtahina 60:8-9

      At-Tabari, an important commentator on the Quran, explains this verse by saying:

      لَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمَّ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ جَمِيعِ أَصْنَافِ الْمِلَلِ وَالْأَدْيَانِ أَنْ تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتَصِلُوهُمْ ، وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ

      Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion – including all the sects, creeds, and religions – that you behave righteously with them, maintain good relations with them, and act fairly with them.

      Source: Tafseer At-Tabari 60:8

      For this reason, the Prophet was careful to behave well towards the Jews. For example, on one occasion the funeral procession of a Jewish elder was passing by the Muslims. The Prophet stood up out of respect for his humanity. It was said, “It is a Jew.” So the Prophet said:

      أَلَيْسَتْ نَفْسًا

      Was he not a soul?

      Source: Sahih Bukhari 1250, Grade: Muttafaqun Alayhi

      Following the Prophet’s example, the companions were eager to behave well with their Jewish neighbors, as this is a great way of seeking reward from Allah.

      Mujahid reported:

      كُنْتُ عِنْدَ عَبْدِ اللهِ بْنِ عَمْرٍو وَغُلاَمُهُ يَسْلُخُ شَاةً فَقَالَ‏ يَا غُلاَمُ إِذَا فَرَغْتَ فَابْدَأْ بِجَارِنَا الْيَهُودِيِّ فَقَالَ رَجُلٌ مِنَ الْقَوْمِ‏:‏ الْيَهُودِيُّ أَصْلَحَكَ اللَّهُ‏ قَالَ‏ إِنِّي سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يُوصِي بِالْجَارِ حَتَّى خَشِينَا أَوْ رُئِينَا أَنَّهُ سَيُوَرِّثُهُ

      I was with Abdullah ibn Amr while his servant was skinning a sheep. He said: O boy, when you finish up, then start with the Jewish neighbor. A man there exclaimed: May Allah correct you! He replied: I heard the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, recommending that we treat our neighbors well until we thought that he would order us to make them our heirs.

      Source: Al-Adab Al-Mufrad 128, Grade: Hasan

      In conclusion, the hadith of the gharqad tree is a narration whose implications must be understood in the full light of Islamic tradition. Violent extremists and anti-Muslim activists alike will cite this narration out of context in order to spread discord and hatred among Jews and Muslims. We seek refuge in Allah from their corruption and we pray that Allah will frustrate them by bestowing peace upon Jews and Muslims.

      Success comes from Allah, and Allah knows best.

      http://abuaminaelias.com/hadith-of-the-gharqad-tree-is-it-a-good-deed-to-kill-jews-in-islam/

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    • Good reply Paul. I referred to this article as well in my responses to the idiot Agnostic John. He also appealed to the hadith above. Ignoramuses like Ken and John don’t bother to do the background research first, but rather jump to conclusions based on their preconceived biases.

      Liked by 1 person

    • By the way Ken, why does your “infallible” scripture refer to Jews as a “synagogue of Satan”?

      “I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you” (Revelation 3:9).

      Of course, this never happened, but the strong anti-Jewish language of the author is evident.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. In conclusion, the hadith of the gharqad tree is a narration whose implications must be understood in the full light of Islamic tradition.

    Fair enough as is; then why do you not allow Mark 10 to be explained “in the full light of the whole Bible and Christian tradition” ? (which I have done, and which Madmanna did by pointing out in Mark 9 about “taking up your cross”) ??

    Why does Hamas, the Islamic (they call themselves “Islamic”) terror group in Gaza, have that Hadith in their constitution and they say it is for today – to fight the Jews now until the day of resurrection – meaning all out war all the time until the end of time?

    Your interpretation goes against Hamas’ interpretation.

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    • ‘Your interpretation goes against Hamas’ interpretation.’

      lol so what? There are at least 1.6 billion muslims on the planet, with many diverse views and opinions. I don’t get my politics or tafsir from Hamas. I go to trusted and recognized Islamic scholars such as Tim Winter at Cambridge University and Hamza Yusuf from Zaytuna College California.

      Do you go to Westboro Baptist Church for your sermons or the KKK for advice on race relations?

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    • Exactly! Ken is barking up the wrong tree!

      Interestingly, the KKK uses the Bible to argue for racial segregation:

      “hite people have practiced segregation throughout History. It is conclusive to believe this due to the fact the White Race has flourished throughout History rather than dwindling such as we are during this time of accepted race-mixing. The inequalities of the Races have never been more apparent than that in the Bible. Here are just a few Bible scriptures:

      Exodus 33:16 “So shall we be separated: I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the Earth”

      Leviticus 20:24 ” I am the Lord they God which have separated you from other people”

      Joshua 23:12-13 “If you do in any way go back and cleave unto the remnants of these Nations, even these that remain among you, and shall make marriages with them, and go in unto them and they unto you: Know for a certainty That there shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your side and thornes in your eyes. Until ye perish off from this good land which the Lord your God has given you.”

      The list goes on and on: Deuteronomy 7:3, Proverbs 23:27, Psalm 144:11-12, Hosea 5:6-7. So We, the True Chosen people of God, the True Tribes of Israel, are commanded not to Race mix. We are NOT EQUAL IN THE EYES OF YAHWEH” (http://www.wckkkk.org/eql.html).

      Now, I assume that Ken and other Christians do not believe in racial segregation, but the KKK’s interpretation goes against Ken’s interpretation.

      Liked by 1 person

    • ‘the KKK’s interpretation goes against Ken’s interpretation’!

      Wow that’s damning Ken.

      The KKK cite a number of Bible verses. Ouch!

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    • so, why doesn’t the whole Islamic world condemn Hamas, if you are paralleling them with KKK and Westboro Baptist Church? (those are very small and fringe wacko nut-job groups – loons)

      Thanks for confirming that Hamas is also as evil and loony as KKK and Westboro Baptist Church!

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    • Ken

      Hamas and Israel brutal occupation supported by evangelical Christians preached by the likes of John Hagee, Jack Van Impe etc. are all evil must be condemned at the same time. Most Muslims do condemn Hamas and the brutal occupation supported by evangelical Christians using Biblical Armageddon to force violence so that at end Jews who do not support Christ will be killed and the rest convert to Christianity.

      The problem of the world is you Ken and your religion and not Islam.

      isis is the vacuum created by the Bush/Blair war and Tony accepted that. The lie at that time was the same as Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Ben Carson and to some extent Hillary are doing to deceive US for their votes. Sanders has got young people who do not want war on lies and suffering of others following him but the establishment are not allowing independents to vote for him in New York. He would have been president to bring peace to the world but not listen to AIPAC.

      Thanks.

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  7. Revelation 3:9 – see Revelation 2:9 – they were Jews who were persecuting the Christians (many Christians were mostly ethnic Jews in the first century) in that specific area around the Philadelphian church and church in Smyrna, and even Ignatius writes about this in his letter to the church of the Philadelphians 6:1 ff. (see ccel.org – Ignatius to the Philadelphians 6:1 ff)

    8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.

    9 “‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander[a] of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’ (Revelation 2:8-11)

    A true Jew is one who accepted Jesus as Messiah and Son of God; ie, God in the flesh. (Romans 2:28-29)

    28 For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. Romans 2:28-29

    Also, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees who wanted to kill Him in John chapter 8 and said that their father was the devil, the father of lies. Because they rejected the true Messiah and His identity as God in the flesh, the Son of God.

    John 8:42-59

    42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

    43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.

    44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

    45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.

    46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?

    47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

    48 The Jews answered him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?”

    49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me.

    50 Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge.

    51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”

    52 The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’

    53 Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?”

    54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’

    55 But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word.

    56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

    57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”

    58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

    59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

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    • I’m impressed at your ability to copy and paste vast chunks of the Bible Ken. Most helpful.

      Like

    • Ken said:

      “They were Jews who were persecuting the Christians (many Christians were mostly ethnic Jews in the first century) in that specific area around the Philadelphian church and church in Smyrna, and even Ignatius writes about this in his letter to the church of the Philadelphians 6:1 ff. (see ccel.org – Ignatius to the Philadelphians 6:1 ff)”.

      Oh, so you want us to to consider the historical context, eh? But then, why don’t you do that with the Quran and Ahadith?

      Thank you for proving my point. 😉

      Liked by 1 person

    • I agree that is important to study the historical context and background of a passage, etc.

      The Bible actually has historical context. The Qur’an and Hadith, many times, don’t have the historical context in the same area. The Qur’an does not have much historical context at all (there is some, but not much, it jumps around from subject to subject); that is why it cannot be understood without the Hadith and Sunna and Tarikh and Sira – that is why English Qur’ans have to have notes to explain what the passage is talking about.

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    • LOL, you are so full of crap. Good Lord, can’t we get one reasonable non-Muslim on this blog? All we get are nutjobs.

      “Historical context” is usually not understood by people living thousands of years after the events happened. Do you really think the average Christian will have any idea about the historical context of the 1st century CE? Probably not. Therefore, the average Christian will need notes as well to properly understand the context of the verses they are reading!

      Thank you once again for proving how utterly hypocritical you are!

      And by the way, there is historical context to much of the Quran. All of the verses that allow violence are understood in that context, which is self-defense. Thus, for those who understand and have knowledge, the Quran allows for violence against those who wish to harm Muslims. The statements made against some Jews, for example, fall in this category because the Medinan Jews were involved in incessant plots against the fledgling Islamic community. Hence, they were the subject of the verses you refer to.

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  8. Paul Williams wrote:

    I go to trusted and recognized Islamic scholars such as Tim Winter at Cambridge University and Hamza Yusuf from Zaytuna College California.

    I am sincerely glad for that; but they are both in the west. They could not teach in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Lybia, Syria, Iraq or Shiite Iran.

    Yasir Qadhi is also a sincere and respected Muslim scholar in the USA (Memphis, Tennessee), but he is now getting death threats from other Muslims – like ISIS and Al Qaeda types.

    Jonathan Brown also – the lecture you put up is informative and good and helpful; and he admitted that the Muslims made war for the first over 100 years – did you even listen to the whole lecture that you put up in a blog post?

    Why did you not allow a combox for that ??

    I wonder why . . .

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    • yes you do wonder why – obsessively. Do you suffer from OCD I wonder?

      Hamza Yusuf regularly appears on Arabic TV in the Middle East, and so does Jonathan Brown. They both speak Arabic fluently (unlike yourself) and give their opinions.

      Btw Tim Winter and Hamza Yusuf were both taught the Islamic sciences in Africa and the Middle East. Not in the West.

      Your list of countries is weird.

      Syria is a failed state in the midst of a war which USA/UK country is bombing the hell out of.

      Libya is another failed state “liberated” by UK/USA (oh the tragic irony) now destroyed by civil war and ISIS is gaining at foot hold. Thanks America!

      Afghanistan – yet another failed state! I wonder why? Oh yes it was bombed and invaded by the USA/UK. Still occupied by these invaders.

      Iraq…do I even need to bother?..

      Boy you Americans love to blame other people for the utter shit you cause in the world.

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    • You forgot Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. I could add Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, Tunisia, Boko Haram areas in Nigeria, Al Shabbab in Somolia. (those western Muslims scholars have visited other Muslim areas, but I doubt they could actually live there and teach there all time.)

      If you agree that Hamas is wrong and bad, then you must agree that Al Qaeda was evil and wrong and that the Taliban in Afghanistan were wrong for supporting them and giving them space to plan all the Islamic terrorism since 9-11-2001 (but even then they started before that in Tanzania, Yemen, etc.)

      So, the problems in Afghanistan are not USA fault, rather it was and is those Muslim terrorist groups that started the problems.

      Syria is Bashar Al Assad’s fault and his late evil father, Hafez Al Assad and decades of harsh dictatorship and evil oppression of the Syrian people.

      Iraq is Saddam Hussein’s and Nouri Al Malaki’s fault – S. H. – he would not behave himself and be civilized. I don’t agree with the USA going into Iraq in 2003, but after it was stabilized in 2007-2008 to 2011 with the surge of General Patraeus, the second foolish thing was President Obama’s failure to leave a “status of forces agreement” there to help the Iraqis keep the stability that was won.

      By the US pulling all completely out, the vaccum was left for the evil terrorist group founded by the late Mosab Al Zarqawi’s group that morphed into ISIS to fill the vacuum, unfortunately.

      Libya – I agree with you. President Obama and Hillary Clinton are idiots; liberal idiots with no morals (and support abortion and homosexuality and atheism and liberal skepticism) should have never agreed to take out Qaddafi – Qaddafi was an evil man, but liberal idealism/ideas of democracy have not worked for the Muslim world much.

      The USA’s military actions are mostly reactions to the first evil terrorism and bad behavior of some Muslim leaders and countries. The USA has made mistakes, no doubt; but if the Muslim terror groups would stop misbehaving, the world would be a better place.

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    • Boy you Americans love to blame other people for the utter shit you cause in the world.

      Most of the problems were started by some Muslims – some Muslim leaders of countries (S. Hussein, the Assads of Syria, etc.) and some Muslim terrorists -which I proved above. They started the problems.

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    • Ken

      Terrorism was started by Christians when the persecuted and terrorised the Arians, Ebionites etc. and all who do not agree with them. The Roman Catholics and Protestants persecuted and terrorised themselves. No religion is allowed in a Christian country except their brand of Christianity until the liberals, atheist, secularist beat them up and force freedom of religion on them.

      /////////

      Along with the religious consequences of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation came deep and lasting political changes. Northern Europe’s new religious and political freedoms came at a great cost, with decades of rebellions, wars and bloody persecutions. The Thirty Years’ War alone may have cost Germany 40 percent of its population.

      Source: http://www.history.com/topics/reformation

      //////////

      After that they keep voting to a president who will support their idea and go to war in Muslims lands to pave way for them to “save people” by preaching the gospel to women, children and the hungry in refugee camp they created by the wars.

      Thanks.

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    • Ken the rest of the world would laugh at your naiveté about the US – always blaming Muslims and others for the evil your country does.

      The US is the main sponsor of death and terrorism in the world and has killed far more people than any other nation or group.

      Think of the hundreds of thousands of innocent people killed by US sanctions on Iran in the 1990s

      Think of the hundreds of thousands of innocent people killed as a result of the illegal attack in Iraq – justified by blatant lies by your government to the world.

      Think of the military, financial and political support US gave and still gives to brutal anti-democratic dictatorships in the Middle East like Egypt

      Think of all the democratically elected governments US have overthrown since WWII, like in Iran in 1953 and Chile in 1974

      Think of all the kidnaping, torture and detention without trial of Muslims the US has done.

      Muslims have overwhelmingly been the victims of aggressive American imperialism.

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    • Huh? Saddam Hussein’s Baath Party was brought to power with the blessing of America. You really have no business commenting on international politics if you know next to nothing about it.

      ” As its instrument the C.I.A. had chosen the authoritarian and anti-Communist Baath Party, in 1963 still a relatively small political faction influential in the Iraqi Army. According to the former Baathist leader Hani Fkaiki, among party members colluding with the C.I.A. in 1962 and 1963 was Saddam Hussein, then a 25-year-old who had fled to Cairo after taking part in a failed assassination of Kassem in 1958.

      According to Western scholars, as well as Iraqi refugees and a British human rights organization, the 1963 coup was accompanied by a bloodbath. Using lists of suspected Communists and other leftists provided by the C.I.A., the Baathists systematically murdered untold numbers of Iraq’s educated elite — killings in which Saddam Hussein himself is said to have participated. No one knows the exact toll, but accounts agree that the victims included hundreds of doctors, teachers, technicians, lawyers and other professionals as well as military and political figures” (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/14/opinion/a-tyrant-40-years-in-the-making.html).

      Liked by 1 person

    • Ken is a typical naive American – so many of them.

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    • Paul Williams

      Thank you very much and I pray Allah to bless you. If Ken Temple start to take your corrections to him about Islam and Muslims and start preaching it to Donald Trump supporters who sees Islam and Muslims like how he see it, there would have been perfect peace in the world.

      If he had read the biography of these great scholars, he would have known that, they studied from Islamic from Islamic scholars not from the west but from the “east” and they continue to meet them(their Islamic scholars who are in the “east” not west”).

      Hamza Yusuf has spend years in Mauritania, Africa, learning Islam and he still meets his tutors. His Islamic or their Islamic is not “western” or “eastern” but the true Islamic shared by majority of Muslims.

      Scholars from Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, etc. disowned isis, book haram and the rest. It is not only Hamza Yusif, Jonathan Brown etc. or the “western” Muslims.

      Suhaib Webb, Imam Joe Bradford, Khalid Yasin etc. all have scholars all over the world like how it started from our prophets time where Islamic students travel the world over to learn and study Islam.

      This guy has spent years in the middle east and Africa learning and studying Islam and he speaks Arabic fluently than some Arabs and he has memorised the whole Quran and some hadith and he is still learning Islam and he does not consider himself as the best.

      Ken, Temple will rather approve Nabeel Quraish Book to let it look like any “expect” on Islam, but Nabeel hardly pronounce one single Arabic word and did learn his Islam from David Wood who is known to be a liar about Islam and can not pronounce one single Arabic word.

      Thanks.

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    • But they live and teach regularly in the west now.

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    • And so what? Thabiti Anyabwile lives and preaches regularly in the Cayman Island. Do you consider his ministry influenced by Cayman Island?

      Besides, Muslim scholars all over the world including Nigeria, Sudan, Afghanistan etc. have preached publicly against isis, book haram, eshabab etc. and not your “western” Muslim scholars alone.

      Thanks

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    • Thabiti Anyabwile – a good man. He is back near Washington D.C. ministering to the African American community there and doing church-planting. He moved back from the Cayman Islands about one year ago (I think).

      He did a great job in his debates vs. Shabir Ally and Basam Zawadi.

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