Today at Speakers Corner

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Categories: Speakers Corner

29 replies

  1. Jesus is the way the truth and the Light, no come goes to Heaven accept through Jesus Christ. Pictures are cool thanks for sharing. Are they from England?

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  2. Paul Williams,
    How do you know Islam is the truth?

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  3. How did God confirm it and how do you know for sure that God confirmed it?

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    • Ken I have discussed the reasons for believing that God exists; that he has sent prophets and messengers to earth (including Abraham, Jesus and Muhammad) many times before.

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    • We agree with that, except for Muhammad. Revelation stopped when the apostles of Jesus died and the NT was already written by then, by 96 AD. (Whether the last book written was Revelation or the little book of Jude. Jude says “the faith” was “once for all time delivered to the saints”. So to claim another prophet came 500-600 years later is a false hood / heresy / aberration as is. So, believe that God exists and sends prophets does not answer the question, since Christianity also affirms that. Try again, how do you know Islam is true? It came 500-600s after revelation and prophets and apostles ceased.

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  4. How wouldn’t he know Mr temple? The inconsistencies of christians (as well as tons of other idolaters) when they attempt to harmonise their doctrines speak volume to that effect. Left christianity myself when I couldn’t stand it.

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    • Chocoboy,
      That’s your opinion (that you think there were inconsistencies – do you mean in the bible itself or Christians as imperfect humans ?)

      Left christianity myself when I couldn’t stand it.

      – and that was your decision; ok; and you are free to leave Christianity. I respect your freedom to do that.

      But you have to ask yourself about Islam and why it does not allow Muslims to also leave their religion.

      The Hadith says,
      “Whoever leaves Islam, kill him.”

      Sahih al-Bukhari 6922—Allah’s Messenger said, “If anyone changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.”

      Apostasy laws are based on that and were carried out for centuries. Some Muslim countries still apply those laws. Many Muslims take the law into their hands and do honor killings.

      You have to ask yourself, “is there something inherently in Islam that breeds this kind of violence?”

      Most Muslims don’t do that stuff nowadays, thankfully; but too many do (the terrorists) – and causing problems all over the world – why? and why do they feel justified with so many texts behind them that give them that confidence and why are so many following that?

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    • Ken you conveniently ignore the fact that the Bible commands apostates to be executed (Jesus reaffirmed this law!) and the Christian church continued to kill apostates till the Western Enlightenment outlawed this biblical practice.

      Luther, Calvin and all the rest actively sought the death penalty for this sin and had people executed. These are your Christian heroes.

      You are quite liberal and secular when it suits you Ken. A very odd and inconsistent position.

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  5. The Old Testament said that for Theocratic Israel; but since the new covenant was established at the atonement and resurrection and subsequent mission to all nations, and confirmed by the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, there is no more Theocratic Israel.

    Jesus said, “I am taking the kingdom of God away from you [ The Jewish leadership, the Pharisees and high priest ] – Matthew 21:43-45

    The earlier cursing of the fig tree illustrated this.

    Therefore it is not liberal, nor inconsistent.

    Luther and Calvin were right on many things, but they were not infallible.
    Luther’s rant against the Jews at the end of his life was very bad and wrong.
    Calvin was wrong on infant baptism and state government unified with the church.

    The NT does not teach apostates to be killed.

    The NT teaches excommunication or expelling people from coming to church, but not the death penalty.

    see 1 Corinthians chapter 5 and 6:9-11

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    • Jesus was clear: the commandment to execute apostates was to be followed. You follow a different religion Ken: post-Enlightenment American Christianity.

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    • Where did Jesus say that in the New Testament?

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    • Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples,

      ‘The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; therefore, do whatever they teach you and follow it; but do not do as they do, for they do not practise what they teach.’

      Gospel of Matthew chapter 23

      For Jesus, keeping the commandments of the law of God (Torah) was vital for salvation.

      See also:

      Matthew 5:17-20

      Matthew 19:16-17

      Matthew 23:23

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  6. Paul,
    It sounds like you think law ( killing apostates from Islam) should be implemented in England.

    Since you also agree with the restoration of the Caliphate, it seems you agree with the terrorists.

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  7. An intellectual answer should interact with the principles of Matthew 21:43-45 and the new covenant in Christ’s atonement and new testament local churches in all nations – and that the NT never gives the church the authority to do the OT theocratic Israel laws of punishments.

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    • Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples,

      ‘The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; therefore, do whatever they teach you and follow it; but do not do as they do, for they do not practise what they teach.’

      Gospel of Matthew chapter 23

      For Jesus, keeping the commandments of the law of God (Torah) was vital for salvation.

      See also:

      Matthew 5:17-20

      Matthew 19:16-17

      Matthew 23:23

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  8. There again goes the usual rant of ‘the true christian’. Couldn’t help reading the confirmation of my earlier comment in them.
    Anyway Bro Temple, the killing of apostates in Islam is by no means absolute. Scholars have and still continue to debate the best stance. While quite a chunk support execution via a literal understanding of the hadith you quoted , a wave of others disagree prefering a metaphorical meaning. Strengthening their own understanding is a hadith of Imam Muslim which highlights a story in which the prophet allowed an apostate leave Madinah. Among the camp are Sufyan At-thawri, Shamsuddeen Sarakhsi and eminent first century medinite scholar; Ibraheem An-nakha’i.
    Bro Williams has turned the argument on its head. It felt nice to notice how your consistency crashed.

    Liked by 1 person

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