A curious fact to ponder 



Categories: Islam

47 replies

  1. As a trinitarian my reply would be that the statements of the bible constitute the doctrine of the trinity. There is nothing to “work out”, develop or evolve.

    The trinity was formulated in terms that the heretics themselves used to dumb down to their level. I don’t believe in a model or theory that had to be developed over time. True faith or belief doesn’t need the crutches of a creed but they are useful at times.

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  2. Strange. Jesus clearly claims divinity in the NT, the Holy Spirit is said to be from god in the NT, and god the father is a distinct person above. The concept is clear in the NT, unlike the doctrine of tawheed in the quran or the OT……..

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  3. D, you’re the one who believes in a god with a split personality disorder, three in one remember! In fact your ridiculous doctrine actually states, God is one Being, who is three ‘persons’ or ‘personalities’ . In psychology that’s a called a split personality disorder! LOL.

    Btw, i’ve always wondered whether ‘D’ stands for david, as in david wood??!!! Just asking??!!!!

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    • No “D’ stands for delightful.

      “God is one Being, who is three ‘persons’ or ‘personalities’”

      You moron. Person does not equate to personality, they have two different meanings.

      But muslims themselves have said on this very blog that your god has 99 personalities/characters/attributes, and none of them actually reveal who your god is. These personalities are merely roles that your god takes and might hint at his essence, or might not.

      Even his “oneness” is an attribute – and none of his attributes or personalities reveal his nature. So, go figure, you have no idea what kind of entity you worship.

      The only truth we can infer from this concept of your god is that it is trying really hard to obscure its true nature.

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    • D says “You moron. Person does not equate to personality, they have two different meanings.”

      “Defendchrist” says:
      “Father,Son and the Holy Ghost are the three personalities revealed in the bible”

      Now which of you missionary geniuses is right?
      I suggest you check with your local inquisitor first before you get on your Muslim neighbor’s nerves. Come back when you have made up your mind, or after you burnt each other at the stake.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Burhanuddin1

      ““Father,Son and the Holy Ghost are the three personalities revealed in the bible””

      How does that contradict my statement that the words “person” and perosnality” are different?

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    • D
      go and pick on your brother in missionary failure “Defendchrist”

      3 personalities! Priceless.

      Liked by 1 person

    • My religion doesn’t call for me to pick on anyone.

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    • but your Bible claims that Jesus ordered the slaughter of innocent children and babies – see 1 Samuel 15

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    • “My religion doesn’t call for me to pick on anyone.”

      Why do you do it, HS megafail?

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    • Paul Williams

      “but your Bible claims that Jesus ordered the slaughter of innocent children and babies – see 1 Samuel 15”

      but where am I commanded to follow this example for all time? You are commanded to submit to mohammed and follow his example – he had sex with a 9 year old and allowed his followers to kill critics.

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    • No, I am not commanded to imitate everything he did. He was Head of State/I am not. He was a prophet/I am not. He was permitted by God to have many wives (like the biblical prophets)/I am not. He undertook strenuous practices such as praying all night/I am not required to do this.

      And so on…

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    • Paul says specifically of the Old Testament:

      ‘All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness…’

      So genocide is on the cards it seems

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    • Paul

      Where did I say you are commanded to imitate everything he did? You are commanded to submit to him and follow his example and his example makes ghengis khan look like mary poppins.

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    • you said Muslims must “follow his example” which i took to mean imitate him in his life. But you are being pedantic.

      Muhammad’s life is a gem of gems compared to ours.

      But a dark heart sees only darkness.

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    • “Paul says specifically of the Old Testament:

      ‘All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness…’

      So genocide is on the cards it seems”

      We are not called to submit to paul. Regardless, that is quite a desperate leap of logic on your part – I see no command to imitate the actions of men.

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    • Yes you are called to submit to God in the Bible. And many Christians have seen 2 Tim 3:16 as offering justification of their genocide of heathens – its an example from the OT after all.

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    • Paul Williams

      “Yes you are called to submit to God in the Bible. And many Christians have seen 2 Tim 3:16 as offering justification of their genocide of heathens – its an example from the OT after all.”

      Yes, we are called to submit to god, not follow the actions of mere men. Where does it say that I am to go out and kill children? Where does the OT command ME to do this? WHere does god make it my task to do these things?

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    • ‘we are called to submit to god, not follow the actions of mere men.’

      Dude you don’t know your Bible very well. Paul told his followers “you should imitate me” – a mere man! So you are wrong.

      The OT does not command *you* personally. Perhaps. But you may change your mind and think it does. Many Christians have throughout the ages felt called by God to purify the land (think USA and south America) of heathens who are just like certain OT pagan nations. As 2 Tim 3:16 suggests, we are to follow the example of the OT:

      ‘All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work.’

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    • Paul

      “Dude you don’t know your Bible very well. Paul told his followers “you should imitate me” – a mere man! So you are wrong.”

      Dude, you don’t know the bible. Paul said to imitate him as he imitates Christ – do you really understand that to mean that we submit to Paul and imitate everything he does?

      Muslims are commanded to submit to mohammed and follow his example always – this is why so many muslims perform the pagan ritual of kissing the black stone. That is not commanded anywhere in the quran, and your own sources admit it is a pagan practice that muslims only follow because mohammed did it.

      “The OT does not command *you* personally. Perhaps. But you may change your mind and think it does.”

      Weak. Extremely weak.

      Unless there is an explicit command then there is no rational or reasonable basis upon which to change your mind. Islam explicitly commands muslims to imitate mohammed – and look at how that is turning out for you guys in muslim countries.

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  4. D, you are stupid!

    God’s attributes are not separate persons we worship, as you worship the ‘person’ within the god head, jesus!

    Ok, lets have some fun d for david! Define the difference between person and personality?

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    • JAcob

      no need to be rude dude.

      You have no idea what you worship, so your statement makes no sense. You worship an entity that performs roles, whilst never revealing who or what is behind them. It could be god, or it could be something less, you guys can’t know.

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  5. D, don’t change the subject, define the difference between person and personality?

    Muslims know who we worship. He is The One True God, One Being. The Creator of the universe, He’s the most Merciful, the Loving, the Just. Do you disagree with this description of God?

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    • Jacob

      What? Your god’s oneness is an attribute and his attributes are mere roles that it takes that may or may not reveal its nature. In other words, you simply cannot know absolutely if your god is one or a dozen based on the doctrine of tawheed. But again, your god’s attributes of mercy are merely roles or actions that it has performed, that do not reveal its essence. Furthermore, its attributes are finite – LOL!!!

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    • lol yawn. You suffer from OCD dude

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Oh btw, D, it’s ok for you to call me moron, but if i call you stupid, i’m being ‘rude’!! Evangelical standards for you!! If you don’t want to be called names, don’t do it to others!!

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  7. For the third time D, don’t try and change the subject and attempt to attack the attributes of God. What is the difference between person and personality, as you claim your triune god is 3 persons, not 3 personalities.

    Btw, the way you evangelicals attack Divine attributes is strange??!! Do you guys not believe God is Merciful, Just, Loving, etc??

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    • jacob

      “Do you guys not believe God is Merciful, Just, Loving, etc??”

      Your god is not merciful or loving or just, you shirker – you’ve just equated your unknowable, distant god with human concepts. Your god is none of those things – he merely has shown these qualities or attributes, or has played the role of someone loving, just, or merciful. And even then, the attributes of the thing you worship are finite – including its oneness. LOL!!!!!

      You don’t know your own theology. So tell me, how does an infinite god have finite attributes?

      And do you really need someone to clarify the difference between person and personality?

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    • D give it a rest with the attributes obsession

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  8. Well,the Trinity is implied in the NT:

    The Holy Spirit is called God in Acts 5:1-4 and Hebrews 10:15-17(where the author quotes God himself in Jeremiah,and says it is the Holy Spirit)

    Acts 5:1-4

    “But a man named Ananias and his wife Sapphira sold some land. He kept back part of the money for himself; his wife knew about this and agreed to it. But he brought the rest of the money and gave it to the apostles.

    Peter said, “Ananias, why did you let Satan rule your thoughts to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep for yourself part of the money you received for the land? Before you sold the land, it belonged to you. And even after you sold it, you could have used the money any way you wanted. Why did you think of doing this?

    You lied to God, not to us!””

    Hebrews 10:15-17(pre-70 AD)

    “The Holy Spirit also tells us about this. First he says:

    “This is the agreement I will make
    with them at that time, says the Lord.
    I will put my teachings in their hearts
    and write them on their minds.” (Jeremiah 31:33)

    Then he says:

    “Their sins and the evil things they do—
    I (God)will not remember anymore.” (Jeremiah 31:34)

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  9. Can anyone else please answer what is the difference between person and petsonality, as clearly D can’t answer thus question??!! Anyone?

    If no christian is willing to answer this, then the conclusion is the triune god has a split personality disorder, which is a mental illness!!??? The triune god is mentally ill!

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  10. Sorry, meant ‘personality’

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  11. The strongest example of the Synoptics saying Jesus is God is in reference to him,Jesus, saying he is the Lord of the Sabbath.

    In Mosaic Law the Lord of the Sabbath is God:

    Leviticus 19:3

    “Every one of you will reverence his mother and his father, and you shall keep My sabbaths; I am the Lord(in Hebrew,it is written Yahweh) your God.”

    Exodus 16:23

    “Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord(Yahweh) meant: Tomorrow is a sabbath observance, a holy sabbath to the Lord(Yahweh).”

    Leviticus 23:3

    ““Six days will work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You will do no work. It is a Sabbath to the Lord(written Yahweh) in all your dwelling places.”

    Exodus 20:10

    “But the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord(Yahweh) your God.”

    Exodus 31:13

    “But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord(Yahweh) who sanctifies you.”

    Exodus 31:15

    “For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord(Yahweh).”

    Exodus 35:2

    “For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a holy day, a sabbath of complete rest to the Lord(Yahweh).

    In the Synoptics Jesus,using his title of “Son of Man”,calls himself the Lord of the Sabbath

    Son of man was another way of saying human being,but the way Jesus uses it is as a Messianic title.

    Mark 2:23-28,and also in Matthew 12:1-8 and Luke 6:1-5

    “As he was passing through a field of grain on the sabbath, his disciples began to make a path while picking the heads of grain. At this the Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the sabbath?” He said to them, “Have you never read what David did when he was in need and he and his companions were hungry?

    How he went into the house of God when Abiathar was high priest and ate the bread of offering that only the priests could lawfully eat, and shared it with his companions?”

    Then he said to them, “The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.

    That is why the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.””

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    • None of this says ‘Jesus is God’

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    • as someone that reads, speaks, and lectures in Modern and Old Hebrew (you can find some of them on my blog), i would like to inform all people that every word spoken by Richard here is absolute ludicrous… Sabbath is not more the lord than the first grain of wheat of the harvest that we are supposed to give to the priest. it is called holy to God… Sabbath is a freaken day…. [a very holy one] but not God!!! if that is the strongest proof, your trinity is in big trouble… really big trouble

      Liked by 1 person

  12. Jacob asked:

    “Can anyone else please answer what is the difference between person and petsonality, as clearly D can’t answer thus question??!! Anyone?”

    I understand personality to be the characteristics of a person,like the characteristics of an introverted person are different from that of a extroverted person.

    A shy person has a different personality from a irascible,bully-like person.

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  13. As an observant Jew and believer in the Bible, i would like to challenge all the Christians above [who believe in the Nicean creed, after all Jesus said “don’t call me good…”], to show me where in the Old Testament it says that this multiple God thing, is only three??? if God has many parts, that are all coequal, i hereby declare myself the fourth persona in the Godhead.. and if you don’t believe in me your damned…

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Greetings Mozer:

    You wrote:

    “As someone that reads, speaks, and lectures in Modern and Old Hebrew (you can find some of them on my blog), i would like to inform all people that every word spoken by Richard here is absolute ludicrous… Sabbath is not more the lord than the first grain of wheat of the harvest that we are supposed to give to the priest. it is called holy to God… Sabbath is a freaken day…. [a very holy one] but not God!!! if that is the strongest proof, your trinity is in big trouble… really big trouble”

    You misread,nobody said the Sabbath is Lord,but Jesus said he was the Lord of the sabbath.

    The sabbath was created by God,as the day when the Jews would worship him,so the title Lord of the Sabbath,is only applicable to God.

    At least in a Religious Context,and in the incident Jesus and the Jewish teachers were discussing religion.

    Greetings Paul:

    You said:

    “None of this says ‘Jesus is God’”

    I think in an indirect way it would,if a man said “I am the creator of the Quran in Heaven”,then he is saying he is Allah.

    There is a passage in Jeremiah about the Davidic Messiah that taken literally means he would God,though there are counter-arguments:

    Jeremiah 23:5-6

    ““The days are coming,” says Yahweh
    when I will raise a righteous Branch for David
    .
    He will reign as king and succeed,
    he will do what is just and right in the land.

    In his days Judah will be saved,
    Isra’el will live in safety,

    and the name given to him will be
    Yahweh Tzidkenu(Yahweh Our Righteousness)”

    From the CJB(Complete Jewish Bible,in biblegateway.com),only that I changed Y’hudah to Judah and Adonai to Yahweh.

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