‘Speakers Corner 07th Aug 2016 – Brother Paul – Jesus Christ PBUH is only a prophet.’

My final words were “I’m glad that went well” lol

Categories: Bible, Christianity, God, Islam, Speakers Corner

47 replies

  1. Hi Paul
    Stop talking lies why don’t you read the bible properly.

    Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

    This is dealing with self righteous people not talking about how to be justified before God, it’s about self righteous people.

    Salvation is not the issue in this text please be truthful.


    • I am being truthful. Jesus was teaching you that the way to be pleasing to God is by humbling ourselves to him (not to Jesus!). There is no need for a human sacrifice to give us atonement with God.

      Also you strike me as a somewhat self-righteous person – so the parable is ideal for you to reflect on!


  2. Hi Paul
    Please show me the law of Moses and the teaching of Jesus from the Koran, please quote the chapters and verses.


  3. Hi Paul
    According to Jesus if you trust in HIM you will receive eternal life.


  4. How different is Paul from Jesus?

    Jesus and Paul…what was taught different by Paul

    1.Alive in Christ
    “For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes,” (John 5:21).

    “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive,” (1 Cor. 15:22).

    “For this reason I say to you, do not be anxious for your life, as to what you shall eat, or what you shall drink; nor for your body, as to what you shall put on. Is not life more than food, and the body than clothing?” (Matt. 6:25).

    “Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God,” (Phil. 4:6).

    “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep,” (John 10:11)

    “and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you, and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma,” (Eph. 5:2).

    4.Deity of Jesus
    “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am,” (John 8:58). Compare with Exodus 3:14, “And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, “I AM has sent me to you.”

    “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,” (Col. 2:9). See also, Phil. 2:5-8.

    “For if you forgive men for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you,” (Matt. 6:14).

    “And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you,” (Eph. 4:32).

    6. The way to heaven / Father.
    “Jesus said to him, “I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me,” (John 14:6).

    “For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,” (1 Tim. 2:5).

    7.Justification by faith

    “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life,” (John 5:24). See also John 3:16-18; Luke 18:9-13.

    “Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,” (Rom. 5:1).

    8.The Law
    “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill,” (Matt. 5:17).

    “Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law,” (Rom. 3:31).

    “What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise,” (Gal. 3:17).

    Gal 2:16    Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
    Gal 2:17    But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
    Gal 2:18    For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
    Gal 2:19    For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
    Gal 2:20    I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    Gal 2:21    I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    9. Living the Law

    “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Matt. 19:18-19).

    “Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; love therefore is the fulfillment of the law,” (Rom. 13:8-10)

    “Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given,” (Matt. 19:11).
    “All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out,” (John 6:37).
    “No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day,” (John 6:44).
    “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father,” (John 6:65).

    “He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will… 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,” (Eph. 1:5,11).

    “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men; 23 and they will kill Him, and He will be raised on the third day,” (Matt. 17:22-23).

    “For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,” (1 Cor. 15:3-4).

    12.Rewards and Punishment

    “For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds,” (Matt. 16:27).
    “who will render to every man according to his deeds,” (Rom. 2:6).

    13.Sinfulness of man

    “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. 20 “These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man,” (Matt. 15:19-20).
    “There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; 12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one,” (Rom. 3:11-12).


    “And why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?” (Matt. 15:3).

    “See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ,” (Col. 2:8).

    15.Works Righteousness denied

    “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 “And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness,” (Matt. 7:22-23).

    “Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith,” (Gal. 3:11).


  5. Hi Paul

    Your words…

    I am being truthful. Jesus was teaching you that they way to be pleasing to God is by humbling ourselves to him (not to Jesus!). There is no need for a human sacrifice to give us atonement with God.

    Also you strike me as a somewhat self-righteous person – so the parable is ideal for you to reflect on!

    You know exactly what Jesus was saying he was speaking about self righteous people that trust in themselves, where do you see salvation in the text? You have taken the parable out its context and the lesson taught is changed from what Jesus intended it to be.

    You use the same old trick on all those Christians that don’t know their bible very well, if you want to call me self righteous that’s down to you.

    All I’m saying is please don’t put your spin on the text.

    The key words in the text…trusted…righteous and despise the whole parable is dealing with issue of the heart and how we present ourselves before God and others.


    • “he was speaking about self righteous people that trust in themselves”

      exactly – and is that not true of most people?

      remind me how was the tax collector justified before God?

      What does Jesus mean by justified?


    • Hi Paul
      Is this a man seeking salvation or just asking for his prayers to be answered? The parable is addressing self righteous people who despise others. You are changing the meaning of the text to serve your own purpose.

      In this instance of prayer it means this mans prayers were approved because of his humble approach to God.

      Any other meaning and you take it out of its immediate context which is what Muslims do with the bible all the time to prove your case.

      Why are putting your own spin on the text?


    • DC

      you have not answered my questions, why is this?

      Once more:

      remind me how was the tax collector justified before God?

      What does Jesus mean by justified?


    • Hi Paul
      In what context are talking about?

      Are you saying if I pray now…”God be merciful to a sinner” I’m made totally righteous and on my way to heaven?

      Or is it as I believe that God approved of his prayer because he was humble before God in his request?

      What if the publican sins again…and again…and again is he righteous? Wouldn’t he have to pray AGAIN for God to be merciful?

      So their is no keeping of the law here needed to be saved?

      What am I asking you is the prayer a prayer that takes you or is it a prayer that is a picture of what we should be doing on a daily and regular basis.


    • DC

      lol you are running away from my question to YOU!

      Last (and third) time:

      What does Jesus mean by when he said the man went home justified before God? Do you not know?

      how was the tax collector justified before God?

      Don’t try and evade his important question!


  6. Sorry Paul
    Is it a prayer that takes you to heaven or a prayer that we should do on a regular basis because we are all sinners.


  7. I would argue in reply that the temple in the parable is no coincidence and is a metaphor for the need for propitiation or atonement. This proves that repentance, or more accurately in the islamic sense, recitation in worship, is not sufficient for forgiveness.


    • So how was the tax collector justified before God?

      Liked by 1 person

    • Hi Paul
      I don’t know why you keep pressing me??

      If you read the what bible says about the reason why Jesus spoke this parable we wouldn’t be having this conversation so to speak.

      Well I have said once or twice already I will say it again that when Jesus said he was he justified he means his prayer was approved.

      Well here is the word in Greek maybe you can explain the reason why this particular word is used in the text.


      1a) to become propitious, be placated or appeased
      1b) to be propitious, be gracious, be merciful

      Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

      Jesus said the same thing after the wedding feast parable…

      Luk 14:10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
      Luk 14:11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

      He said again when he was exposing the Pharisees for desiring the praise of men.

      Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
      Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

      In all of these parables and scriptures there are lessons to learnt.

      A. The unjust judge…be persistent in prayer

      B. Pharisee & Publican…be humble and honest in your approach in prayer.

      C. The wedding feast…don’t seek the chief position.

      D. Warning to multitude & disciples…don’t seek the praises of men or do as the Pharisees.


  8. Quote from “Racism in the Modern World: Historical Perspectives on Cultural Transfer and Adaptation”, 2011
    ..Manfred Berg and Simon Wendt

    “The content of the Quran may very well be the least ethnocentric, the least particularistic, and the most universal sacred text of all the world’s great religions.”


  9. In the world of languages Arabic is a toddler…where did Arabic develop from? Was it around in the 1st century AD?


  10. “So how was the tax collector justified before God?”

    Jesus shows that you cannot earn salvation by keeping the law as the verses following on from the parable of the tax collector clearly show:

    Luke 18 v 15 “And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 17 Verily I say unto you,

    Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.”

    A child cannot provide for itself. It cannot work to earn a living for itself. It lives by receiving everything it needs as a gift from its parents.

    Salvation is a gift that we receive by faith.


  11. Hi Paul
    What came first Nabatean or Arabic and around what would you say was the transition from one to the other. There was no way Arabic was before Nabatean alphabet. If so please send me some proof.


  12. Paul wrote:
    “So how was the tax collector justified before God?”

    First, here is the text of the passage that Jesus Al Masih taught:

    9 And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful (or propitious ) to me, the sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.” (Luke 18:9-14)

    My answer:

    Notice the context in verse 10 – “Two men went into the temple to pray . . . “. The temple was the place of sacrifice. There had to be sacrifice of unblemished animals in order to appease the holy wrath of God, or satisfy the justice of God that He has against sin. The whole OT of sacrificial animals and rituals informs the meaning and proper understanding of the temple context. (Genesis 22, Exodus, Leviticus, 1-2 Kings, Isaiah 53, etc.)

    Luke 18:13 –
    ὁ θεός, ἱλάσθητί μοι τῷ ἁμαρτωλῷ. (The Greek text of the most pertinent phrase in Luke 18:13)

    “O God, be propitious toward me, the sinner!”
 from Luke 18:13

    Usually, this is translated “O God, be merciful to me, the sinner!” But Luke uses a very technical and specific term here that is a different word than the usual concepts of mercy. The mercy here is based on propitiation or the “satisfaction” or “appeasement of justice” or the “quenching of wrath”.

    The same root words from “hilasmos” (propitiation) are also used in Romans 3:25, Hebrews 9:5 – where it is used of the place of the atonement, the mercy seat in the holy of holies inside the temple in the OT, where the blood of the sacrificed lambs were to be sprinkled onto. (again, see verse 10 “two men went into the temple to pray”. See also at the end where the word, “propitiation” is used in Hebrews 2:17, 1 John 2:2, and 1 John 4:10.

    It is really ironic that Paul Williams tries to use Luke 18:9-14 as somehow agreeing with Islam. The Greek word for “have mercy on me” is better translated “be propitious toward me” – because mercy is based on justice being fulfilled. The “hilasmos” ( ‘ιλασμος = propitiation in 1 John 2:2; 4:10 ) root in Luke 18:13 (verb – ‘ιλασθητι, from ‘ιλασκομαι = “to be merciful based on satisfaction” or “to be propitious or “to propitiate”) is also used in Romans 3:25-26, Hebrews 2:17; I John 2:2 and I John 4:10 and means “to appease the just wrath of”. (see more at the end of this article) It is translated as “propitiation” in the NASB and “atoning sacrifice” in the NIV. The prophesies in the OT and the Passover and tabernacle sacrifices and the temple sacrifices all point to this. Jesus Al Masih knows He is going to the cross to be the final sacrifice and atonement and ransom for sin – Mark 10:45; Matthew 20:28; Luke 22:20; Luke 24:46-47. So deep within the cry for mercy, the reason why the sinner in the parable is justified is because

    1. He confesses His sin as a sinner by nature. ( the Greek definite article, τω – “the sinner”, shows us this. (not just individual sins, but the root nature of his being “the sinner”, and at the core, “sinful”.) that is what the Pharisee missed, he thought his good works were good enough to get him justified.

    Islam denies that we are sinners by nature and evil and wicked and self-righteous in our hearts. So, Paul can hardly use this passage as agreeing with Islam.

    2. His confession and repentance and cry for mercy is based on the future propitiatory work of Christ in the future (the future to this parable). verse 13 All true repentance and faith all through the Bible presuppose God’s holiness and wrath against sin, His justice and our guilt; the future Messiah who would be the final sacrifice, and trust in that future Messiah. (Genesis 3:15; 15:6; 12:1-3; 22:18; Exodus 12; Leviticus 1-7; 16-17; Isaiah 53; Daniel 9:24-27; Psalm 51; John 1:29; Revelation 5:9)

    Therefore, Jesus’ teaching on justification in Luke 18:9-14 is in complete agreement with the apostle Paul’s teaching on justification in his epistles – Romans 3:21-28; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-24; Philippians 3:9; Ephesians 2:8-10.

    Also, verse 9 of Luke 18 is a key that refutes Islam also.

    9 “And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt.”

    The Qur’an says, “you (O Muslims) are the best of peoples” (Surah 3:110) and that Christians and Jews “are the worst of creatures” (Surah 98:6). Islamic culture seems to teach that emphasis of superiority and that they are good and righteous, thus it would seem that Luke 18:9 is speaking to the hearts of Muslims to be careful of their spritual pride and self-righteousness and thinking they are good by nature. (In Islam, they have the doctrine of the “Fitrah”(Arabic) or “Fitrat” (Farsi) ( فطرت = upright nature) – Surah 30:30) – which to them is contradictory to the Biblical and Christian doctrine of original, inherited sin in the hearts and natures of all humans. (see Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Psalm 51; Romans 5:12; Mark 7:18-23)

    Because Islam teaches that all humans are basically good, and not sinners by nature, and only weak and forgetful, and if they just get the right guidance and knowledge of Islam and do the external rituals of shahada, wudzu, salaat, fasting during Ramadan, Hajj once in lifetime, zakat, etc. So, how come all that guidance and knowledge doesn’t help get rid of secret sins, lusts, jealousies, angers, adultery, hatred, pride, selfishness, etc. ??

    Because of this emphasis – it is Muslims sincerely (they think, as they don’t seem to see the depths of pride, lust, selfishness, evil motives in their hearts) who trust in themselves that they are righteous – they are good and actively preach against the Biblical doctrine of original sin and internal sins as roots of external sins; it is Muslims who have the great tendency to be like the Pharisees and self-righteous, as in this parable; which is another really ironic thing about Paul Williams trying to use this parable as somehow like Islam.

    Another problem is that Islam teaches people (not always, but by having this Hadith, and the nature of humans the way they are, the whole culture lends itself to this tendency) to hide their secret embarrassing sins (especially sexual sins like lusts, Adultery, pre-marital sex, abortions) – as the article that Paul wrote over a year ago, here, on “Veiling one’s wrong-doing” – January 13, 2012. I am still waiting on that Hadith reference.

    The article on “Veiling One’s wrong doing” is no longer there.

    NT passages where the propitiation (nouns and verbs) word group concept is used:

    Romans 3:25-26

    ὃν προέθετο ὁ θεὸς ἱλαστήριον

    “which God put forward as a propitiation (satisfaction of justice; appeasement of wrath” – ‘ιλαστηριον )

    διὰ πίστεως ἐν τῷ αὐτοῦ αἵματι

    through faith in His blood

    εἰς ἔνδειξιν τῆς δικαιοσύνης αὐτοῦ

    leading to demonstrating His righteousness . . .

    διὰ τὴν πάρεσιν τῶν προγεγονότων ἁμαρτημάτων

    through the passing over the previously committed sins,

    26 ἐν τῇ ἀνοχῇ τοῦ θεοῦ,

    in the forbearance of God

    πρὸς τὴν ἔνδειξιν τῆς δικαιοσύνης αὐτοῦ

    toward the demonstration of the righteousness of His

    ἐν τῷ νῦν καιρῷ,

    at the present time

    εἰς τὸ εἶναι αὐτὸν δίκαιον καὶ δικαιοῦντα

    leading to Him being the just and the justifier

    τὸν ἐκ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ.

    -of the one who has faith in Jesus

    Hebrews 2:17 – He had to be made like His brethren in all things . . . “in order to make propitiation for the sins of the people”


    1 John 2:2 – ‘ιλασμος

    “He is the propitiation for our sins, not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world”

    1 John 4:10 – ‘ιλασμον

    In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins


  13. I don’t know.

    Where are you Paul ?


  14. Where is my arrogant demeanor?


    • Hi Omar
      According to Bart Erhman the crucifixion took place which means the Koran is wrong and Islam is false I mean he is a professor isn’t he an expert in his field?

      The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings,’ he says…

      In any event, Tacitus’s report confirms what we know from other sources, that Jesus was executed by order of the Roman governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate.

      I can’t understand why you would appeal to someone that stands against the text of the Koran.


  15. the Quran leaves open the possibility Jesus was crucified – just not by the Jews.


    • Hi Paul
      I think the Koran says it is certain that he wasn’t Crucified…

      And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger – they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain”. S. 4:157 Pickthall

      The Jews didn’t believe Jesus was the Messiah, if it is not the Jews then who is? And the Koran says it was CERTAIN that he did I die.

      From this text I don’t see any room for the possibility of a crucifixion.


    • It says only that the Jews did not kill him.


    • that’s funny because you constantly quote from Acts chapter 2 to make certain points, and yet several times Peter holds the Jewish leadership responsible for the crucifixion.
      Acts 2:12 “Men of Judea” ;
      2:22 – “Men of Israel . . .
      2:23 this man . . . you nailed to a cross”
      2:36 “let all the house of Israel know . . . ”



  16. Certain that he DIDN’T die…where is the possibility of a crucifixion in the text.


  17. Where is Omar? Where is Paul?
    That is the first time I have ever heard a Muslim say that the Koran leaves open the possibility that there was a Koran…can you explain sounds very interesting. I’m just interested to know how you are going around the CERTAIN.


  18. That here was crucifixion sorry


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