11 replies

  1. What debate was that taken from?


  2. You mean the same way that Muhammad owned women and prostituted them around under the guise of temporary marriage?

    According to the Muslim expositors, the following passage:

    O you who believe! Make not unlawful the Taiyibat (all that is good as regards foods, things, deeds, beliefs, persons, etc.) which Allah has made lawful to you, and transgress not. Verily, Allah does not like the transgressors. S. 5:87 Hilali-Khan

    Was “revealed” to condone the practice of marrying women for a short period of time:

    Narrated Abdullah:
    We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet). “Shall we castrate ourselves?” But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then he recited: “O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139)

    Narrated Abdullah:
    We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah’s Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, “Shall we get ourselves castrated?” He forbade us that and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract and recited to us: — ‘O you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, but commit no transgression.’ (5.87) (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 13o)

    Pay attention to the fact that, instead of teaching his men abstinence and self-control, Muhammad actually goes ahead and encourages his band of murdering thugs to find women to have sex with!

    Sadly, there were instances in which women actually got pregnant through such unions:

    Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab from Urwa ibn az-Zubayr that Khawla ibn Hakim came to Umar ibn al-Khattab and said, “Rabia ibn Umayya made a temporary marriage with a woman and she is pregnant by him.” Umar ibn al-Khattab went out in dismay dragging his cloak, saying, “This temporary marriage, had I come across it, I would have ordered stoning and done away with it!” (Malik’s Muwatta, Book 28, Number 28.18.42)

    Certain traditions claim that Muhammad abrogated this form of prostitution:

    Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah and Salama bin Al-Akwa’: While we were in an army, Allah’s Apostle came to us and said, “You have been allowed to do the Mut’a (marriage), so do it.” Salama bin Al-Akwa’ said: Allah’s Apostle’s said, “If a man and a woman agree (to marry temporarily), their marriage should last for three nights, and if they like to continue, they can do so; and if they want to separate, they can do so.” I do not know whether that was only for us or for all the people in general. Abu Abdullah (Al-Bukhari) said: ‘Ali made it clear that the Prophet said, “The Mut’a marriage has been cancelled (made unlawful).” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 52)

    However, there are other narrations which claim that Muslims continued to observe temporary marriages until the caliphate of Umar b. al-Khattab:

    Ibn Uraij reported: ‘Ati’ reported that Jabir b. Abdullah came to perform ‘Umra, and we came to his abode, and the people asked him about different things, and then they made a mention of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Yes, we had been benefiting ourselves by this temporary marriage during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet and during the time of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3248)

    Even sadder, and more shamefully, is the fact that the Shiite sect of Islam continues to observe this practice till this day. They even attempt to use the Sunni sources themselves to establish that this morally repugnant form of prostitution is still permissible since Muhammad and his followers never abrogated it! For the details and arguments we recommend the following online booklet.

    Suffice it to say, such a practice is nothing more than prostitution and it is an outright insult to even label this filth as marriage.

    Is that the kind of owning you have in mind? No wonder Shabir owned Christianity on women since he is following the example of his profit, unlike that of Jesus who doesn’t allow his men to rape captive women or prostitute them under the guise of muta!


  3. Shabir Ally has never owned anyone in a debate.


  4. “Life for Ruth” (1962)

    This film from over 50 years ago is recommended viewing for those who seek to find what it might be like to achieve an inkling of real ‘understanding’.


  5. His arguments are weak.

    If the head of the man is Christ and the head of the woman is the man why is that demeaning to the woman?

    Exodust 21. If the man sells his daughter to be a maidservant and marry her master that is the agreement. The master has a duty of food, raiment and duty of marriage as long as they are not divorced, in which case he lets her be redeemed or sets her free.

    “7And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. 8If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. 9And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. 10If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. 11And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.”

    Deuteronomy 22

    If a woman deceives her betrothed by not being a virgin then she has effectively committed adultery against him. She should be put to death. It is not a question of honour but a sexual sin against God’s law:

    20But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: 21Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

    Why does Ally play this sin down and sympathize with the woman as if she is the victim of an honour killing?

    The priest had to marry a pure woman:

    7They shall not take a wife that is a whore, or profane; neither shall they take a woman put away from her husband: for he is holy unto his God. 8Thou shalt sanctify him therefore; for he offereth the bread of thy God: he shall be holy unto thee: for I the LORD, which sanctify you, am holy. 9And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

    Again we see a serious sexual sin and Ally is defending the woman and making her a victim to score points against the bible.

    Then we have the old lies about the victim of rape having to marry her rapist.

    In the case of Jepthah a vow is a vow. What has that to do with honour killing?

    In the case of Deuteronomy 13 killing the apostate was under the old covenant which was fulfilled and made obsolete so it cannot be used as an argument as it ceased long ago to be in force as a law.


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