Jesus, the servant of God

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Categories: Bible

74 replies

    • You have already built your idol, so you can’t see anything wrong of that statement although it destroys the deity of Jesus which he never taught or preached.

      Alhamdulillah for Islam.

      Liked by 3 people

    • Jesus said that he did not come to be served but to serve – clearly he does not deny that he is deserving of worship and to be served, but he asserts his ministry to serve.

      I don’t see what the drama is all about – there’s not an ounce of refutation of christian belief to be seen.

      Like

    • Jesus worshiped and prayed to Yahweh. End of.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Jesus came to serve and be an example for man – of course he prayed and worshiped.

      Sigh.

      Like

    • So he was not God then. QED.

      Like

    • there was an article you wrote about an undigested fish, where did it go?

      Like

    • Graham: “Jesus came to serve and be an example for man – of course he prayed and worshiped.”

      Is this function not fulfilled by a mere mortal with no claim of divinity?

      Like

    • Paul Williams

      “Jesus worshiped and prayed to Yahweh. End of.”

      He it is Who sends Salat (prayers) on you, and His angels too, that He may bring you out from darkness into light. And He is Ever Most Merciful to the believers.

      Surah 33:43

      Allah sends His Salat (prayers) on the Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and also His angels too. O you who believe! Send your Salat on him (Muhammad SAW), and greet (salute) him with the Islamic way of greeting.

      Surah 33:56

      Allah prays for mohammed. End of.

      Like

    • greyhound , you wrote

      “Allah prays for mohammed. End of.”

      which degree did you achieve to say that Allah prays ?

      you do know that jesus said “my soul is DEEPLY troubled”
      “he was agitated…”

      “he fell to the ground and …”

      you do know that this was a begging god. but what degree did you acheive to find out that “yusalu” means Allah sought from another God on behalf of..?

      Like

    • ” Allah prays for Muhhmed ”
      Salat in the level of a linguistic form is any thing good you can link the other with . In that verse it means (mercy and blessing).
      It could be translated as ( prayer) since the prayer is a good link between you and your God.
      You cannot play with Quran as you did with OT.

      Like

    • Verdant Servant

      “Is this function not fulfilled by a mere mortal with no claim of divinity?”

      No, nowhere near possible.

      Like

    • Abdullah

      “” Allah prays for Muhhmed ”
      Salat in the level of a linguistic form is any thing good you can link the other with . In that verse it means (mercy and blessing).
      It could be translated as ( prayer) since the prayer is a good link between you and your God.
      You cannot play with Quran as you did with OT.”

      That is hilarious.

      You are playing with the quran when you claim that you can decide to change the plain meanings of words because it doesn’t suit your theology.

      Allah prays – so, according to paul QED allah is not god. Or he is one o several gods. WHo is he praying to?

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    • “Allah prays” it does not say that. You just made it up. However Jesus prayed to God, and is therefore not God. QED.

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    • Paul

      Stop lying for mohammed.

      Admittedly there are differing translations (that merely shows that allah cannot get hos message across), but some of them clearly show that allah prayed, like a creature pleading for his will to be done.

      Like

    • Graham ,
      No ! That’s was not playing. It’s mere language and what it means.
      Then why do you keep insisting that Allah prays ( to ) Muhmmed ! I challange you to give one verse backing this lie.
      I’ve told you, you cannot play with Quran as you have done with OT.
      On the ther hand , Jesus has God whom he feared and worshipped.
      If the father is the only God for Jesus, then that necessitates that Jesus was created by him.

      Like

    • “It could be translated as ( prayer) since the prayer is a good link between you and your God.”

      machee assalah

      Like

    • Typical missionary Graham is. Here is a complete refutation to your lies on 33:56,

      https://discover-the-truth.com/2014/11/26/quran-3356-myth-allah-prays-to-muhammed-p/

      Now let’s turn tables. Christians are commanded to WORSHIP (Shachah) Abraham,

      May nations serve you and peoples bow down (SHACHAH) to you. Be lord over your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down (SHACHAH) to you. May those who curse you be cursed and those who bless you be blessed.” – Genesis 27:29

      The same exact word is used in the following verse,

      “Then the LORD said to Moses, “Come up to the LORD, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to WORSHIP (SHACHAH) at a distance,” – Exodus 24:1

      Now tell is missionaries, why don’t you add another god next to the the three gods you already have?

      Liked by 1 person

    • lying pir

      You’re the guy that reasoned that Rebecca and her father were born simultaneously to each other, aren’t you? LOL

      Now you are trying to prove that when ISaac is speaking to his son, it is actually god speaking, and that isaac’s son is abraham. Poor flying pir. This is no surprise – your allah thinks that the virgin mary is the sister of moses.

      This is embarrassing even for you. Don’t bring shame onto mohammed.

      Like

    • Graham you said:

      //////You’re the guy that reasoned that Rebecca and her father were born simultaneously to each other, aren’t you? LOL//////////

      Remind me again where I have said what you have just claimed?

      Graham continues:

      ///Now you are trying to prove that when ISaac is speaking to his son, it is actually god speaking, and that isaac’s son is abraham.///

      What the hell are you on about? When you typed the above, were you drunk?

      Liked by 3 people

    • smoking some shit probably

      Liked by 1 person

    • //Surah 33:43

      Allah sends His Salat (prayers) on the Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and also His angels too. O you who believe! Send your Salat on him (Muhammad SAW), and greet (salute) him with the Islamic way of greeting.

      Surah 33:56

      Allah prays for mohammed. End of.//

      Ludicrous. The arabic word صَلُّواْ if it is used with preposition عَلَيْ must *only* mean “Blessing”, there is no other way of translating it. Only those who believe god incarnate to become a man or a cow believe that a god can pray to its creation.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Flying Pir

      “Remind me again where I have said what you have just claimed?”

      In the post where you defended pedophilia. You claimed to have proof that rebbecca was 3 when she marrried isaac, but your reasoning only proved that rebecca and her father were born at the same time and were the same age.

      “What the hell are you on about? When you typed the above, were you drunk?”

      No I was not drunk, you very clever guy.

      Your quotes from genesis 27:29 that you think is a command to worship abraham is this….

      May nations serve you
      and peoples bow down to you.
      Be lord over your brothers,
      and may the sons of your mother bow down to you.
      May those who curse you be cursed
      and those who bless you be blessed.”

      Being such a clever guy, you seemed to misunderstand the pretty straight-forward fact that in that passage, Isaac is speaking and giving a blessing to jacob. The passage is not a command from god to worship abraham at all- LOL clever guy, it is a father handing over his legacy to his son.

      As for exodus 24:1-11, you again show how very clever you are. You’re such a clever guy! There is no command to worship moses at all. The passage says…

      Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to the Lord, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to worship at a distance, 2 but Moses alone is to approach the Lord; the others must not come near.

      How that can be understood to mean that christians are to worship moses is not clear – the passage clearly says that the Lord is to be worshiped from a distance. Being so clever, you should explain how that passge is telling christians to worship moses.

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    • Eric

      “Ludicrous. The arabic word صَلُّواْ if it is used with preposition عَلَيْ must *only* mean “Blessing”, there is no other way of translating it. Only those who believe god incarnate to become a man or a cow believe that a god can pray to its creation.”

      YAwn.

      The plain text is the best way to understand things. Plainly, allah prays for mohammed. WHo or what he prays to is open to conjecture.

      Like

    • Give me evidence, any authority in Arabic which have the oponion that صلوأ علئ means “prays to” like in “worship to”?

      Liked by 1 person

  1. “Jesus said that he did not come to be served but to serve – clearly he does not deny that he is deserving of worship and to be served, but he asserts his ministry to serve.”

    “Jesus came to serve and be an example for man – of course he prayed and worshiped.”

    here is mind of deluded pagan .

    you also make jesus into a deluded pagan

    1 PERSON, 2 natures.

    the same PERSOn is telling himself that he is being served like hashem and @ the same time thinking to himself that he is serving ?

    then you must admit that when the human says ” i came to serve” then the divine also said ” i came to serve”

    when the divine said ” i am served” then the human said ” i am served”

    1 PERSON speaking his MIND.

    it makes jesus’ words into a buffoons word ” “come to be served but to SERVE…”

    “of course he prayed and worshipped”

    do you mean 1 person, 2 natures PRAYED to himself ?

    did the 1 PERSOn pray to himself ?

    it is your assumption that your god have full access to everything the father has, then it logically means the SAME person is praying to himself .

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    • edward pig-boy

      Tell us what the quran reveals about the life and ministry of jesus.

      I’m curious, what historical information does the quran give us about jesus’ life?

      Of course, I believe that the quran was compiled by men who knew nothing about the historical jesus.

      Like

    • final warning Graham. Any more offensive language like that and you will be banned without further warning.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Here is a complete refutation to your lies, Graham, on 33:56,

      https://discover-the-truth.com/2014/11/26/quran-3356-myth-allah-prays-to-muhammed-p/

      Christian missionaries are commanded to WORSHIP (Shachah) Abraham,

      “May nations serve you and peoples bow down (SHACHAH) to you. Be lord over your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down (SHACHAH) to you. May those who curse you be cursed and those who bless you be blessed.” – Genesis 27:29

      The same exact word is used in the following verse,

      “Then the LORD said to Moses, “Come up to the LORD, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to WORSHIP (SHACHAH) at a distance,” – Exodus 24:1

      Now tell us missionaries, why don’t you add another god next to the the three gods you already have?

      Like

  2. The verse you quoted, Acts 3:26, see the full context of Acts 3:12-26 and 4:1-2 – “proclaiming Jesus the resurrection from the dead” – Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead. Acts 3:13 (His servant Jesus), Acts 3:15 ( ” putting to death the Prince of Life the one who God [ the Father ] raised from the dead”. “Prince of Life” is an allusion to “Messiah the Prince” in Daniel 9:24-27.

    Yes, Jesus is the Servant of Yahweh of Isaiah 52:13-15 and Isaiah 53:1-12. Jesus proved this in Mark 10:45 and Matthew 20:28 and Mark 14:24 and Luke 22:19-20. He came to give His life as a ransom for many from all nations and to shed His blood as an atonement for sin.

    And Peter quotes Genesis 22:18 in Acts 3:25, the very verse right before verse 26, the one you are quoting in your tweet. Shows fulfillment of all of Genesis 22 – the sacrifice of Abraham’s son and the substitution of the ram pointed to the Messiah Jesus, and God the Father’s willingness to give His only unique Son – beloved Son. (and confirmed by the Qur’an in Surah 37:107)

    All the context (Acts 3:12-26) points to Jesus fulfilling the prophesies of the OT as the Messiah, the suffering servant who come and be the atonement for sins and be raised from the dead.

    The whole context proves Islam is wrong in Surah 4:157, since Jesus as the suffering servant Messiah is all about His substitutionary atonement for sin on the cross and His resurrection from the dead, meaning He really died.

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    • hello ken,

      show me one verse where yhwh thought he was going to become a sacrificed god
      if you can’t they you have proof that yhwh proved jesus wrong.

      Like

    • I already did. All of what I wrote above proves it. You have to read it and study it thoroughly. Theology is done not by only one verse taken out of context. Just like the Muslim articles of defending it’s own position, quoting context, historical background, other verses from Qur’an and Hadith and Sira and Tafsirs, you have your own interpretive rules. (according to context and author’s intent.) You have to give us that same right on how we handle our texts also – context, historical background, harmonization is right because it all comes from one mind – God; it is “God-breathed”. That is the same prepossition you operate under with the Qur’an and your texts. You don’t accept contraditions because you believe it all came down (Nazel – نازل ، نزل , inspired وحی and الهام from God Himself and there is no contradiction in His mind or words.

      Like

    • when yhwh uses the words
      save, saviour, saving, etc

      show me where he thought that his salvation was going to take the form of a jew and his salvation was god and god was sacrificed.

      if you can’t show in the ot where KILLING of god implies salvation from eternal damnation then rest assured jesus is FALSE “messiah” and doomed to hell

      Like

    • quote

      I really couldn’t comment because the christian usage of the word
      “grace” has always been a mystery to me. In my earlier post, I
      referred to the word “save” too, which in Hebrew simply means “rescue”
      from danger—typically by engaging in physical combat (fighting) with
      an assailant who is assaulting the person being “saved”. In the
      T’nach, “saving” is almost always associated with “fighting” or
      “waging war”…. I refer you to any or all of the following examples:

      •”Just stand still and you’ll see Adonai’s salvation that He is going
      to do for your today….”

      (Sh’mot 14:13)•”Adonai saved Yisraél from Egypt’s power that
      day….” (Sh’mot 14:30)•”Adonai set up a saviour for Yisraél—Otniyél
      ben K’naz, Kalév’s younger brother….”

      (Shoftim 3:9)•

      “Adonai set up a saviour for them—Éhud ben Géra the Binyamini, who had
      a deformed right hand….” (Shoftim 3:15)•”….and he, too, saved
      Yisraél….”

      (Shoftim 3:31)•”If You will save Yisraél through my hand, as You have
      spoken….” (Shoftim 6:36)•”….you didn’t save me from them….
      and, when I saw that you hadn’t saved me….”

      (Shoftim 12:2-3)•”Adonai saved Yisraél that day….” (Sh’muél Alef
      14:23)•”….so David saved the inhabitants of K’ilah….” (Sh’muél
      Alef 23:5)•”Adonai is my Light and my Salvation—
      Whom should I fear?
      Adonai is the fortress of my Life—
      Whom should I dread?
      If evil men approach me
      To devour my flesh—
      [When] my adversaries and my enemies [attacked] me—
      Wow! They stumbled and fell!
      If an army encamps against me
      My heart will not be afraid;
      If war breaks out against me—

      On this [assurance] I can rely!” (T’hillim 27:1-3)The above verses
      (and these are only a selection—there are many, many more) demonstrate
      how the verb save and nouns saviour, salvation are used in the T’nach,
      which is nothing like the way christians use them; and as for the
      ridiculous (to my mind) expression “saved by grace”—well, words fail
      me!

      end quote

      ken, all we want to see is where in tanakh, yhwh THOUGHT he was going to get SACRIFICED /sacrificed himself , to save from himself

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    • “For the day of vengeance was in My heart,
      And My year of redemption has come.
      5 “I looked, and there was no one to help,
      And I was astonished and there was no one to uphold;
      So My own arm brought salvation to Me,
      And My wrath upheld Me.

      Isaiah 63:4-5

      Yahweh, as Father, poured out His wrath against sin on the Son on the cross, who voluntarily and willingly gave His life for us; and the Son, as the same substance as the Father, saves sinners on the cross; sinners from all nations. (Rev. 5:9)

      “But demonstrates His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8

      “Christ redeemed us from the curse (judgment, wrath of God) of the law, having become a curse (taking the punishment and wrath) for us, for it is written, cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree . . . “- Galatians 3:13

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    • “You have to read it and study it thoroughly. Theology is done not by only one verse taken out of context. Just like the Muslim articles of defending it’s own position, quoting context, historical background, other verses from Qur’an and Hadith and Sira and Tafsirs, you have your own interpretive rules. (according to context and author’s intent.) You have to give us that same right on how we handle our texts also – context, historical background, harmonization is right because it all comes from one mind – God; it is “God-breathed”. That is the same prepossition you operate under with the Qur’an and your texts. You don’t accept contraditions because you believe it all came down (Nazel – نازل ، نزل , inspired وحی and الهام from God Himself and there is no contradiction in His mind or words.”

      LOL

      are you agreeing that from the torah, the idea that warrior god yhwh does not get bested and trashed by the pagans for sin sacrifice is non-existent ?

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    • Genesis 22:1-18 is in the Torah.

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    • The Lord says to my lord:[a]
      “Sit at my right hand
      until I make your enemies
      a footstool for your feet.”

      lets assume that anodani talked to adonai (really adoni)

      what i have been saying is that in ot yhwh DOES the killing and is NEVER KILLED

      Liked by 1 person

    • “For the day of vengeance was in My heart,
      And My year of redemption has come.
      5 “I looked, and there was no one to help,
      And I was astonished and there was no one to uphold;
      So My own arm brought salvation to Me,
      And My wrath upheld Me.

      Isaiah 63:4-5

      quote

      “Who is this that comes from Edom,
      from Bozrah in garments stained crimson?
      Who is this so splendidly robed,
      marching in his great might?”
      “It is I, announcing vindication,
      mighty to save.”
      2 “Why are your robes red,
      and your garments like theirs who tread the wine press?”
      3 “I have trodden the wine press alone,
      and from the peoples no one was with me;
      I trod them in my anger
      and trampled them in my wrath;
      their juice spattered on my garments,
      and stained all my robes.
      4 For the day of vengeance was in my heart,
      and the year for my redeeming work had come.
      5 I looked, but there was no helper;
      I stared, but there was no one to sustain me;
      so my own arm brought me victory,
      and my wrath sustained me.
      6 I trampled down peoples in my anger,
      I crushed them in my wrath,
      and I poured out their lifeblood on the earth.”

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    • ken, can you show us a place in ot where yhwh predicted that he would get murdered for the sins of people?
      remember sin sacrifices were NEVER performed by yhwh

      lol

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    • ken , how come the fundamentals of your dirty gentilic religion are missing from the ot?

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    • right there in the Torah and OT –
      Genesis 12:3
      Genesis 22:18
      – God’s plan and blessing for the Gentiles
      Psalm 67
      Psalm 87
      Isaiah 49:6
      Isaiah 56:1-7

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    • you never even read the verses.
      Also Psalm 110 – the Father and the Son are both Yahweh / both Yahweh and Adoni are translated “kurios” in Greek – Septuagint – the Lxx.
      Isaiah 52:13-15
      Isaiah 53:1-12

      “The Lord (the Father) has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him (the Messiah, the Son). (Isaiah 53:6)

      “The Lord (the Father) was pleased to crush Him (the Messiah, the Son), if He would render Himself a guilt offering . . . ” Isaiah 53:10

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    • “The Lord (the Father) was pleased to crush Him (the Messiah, the Son), if He would render Himself a guilt offering . . . ” Isaiah 53:10

      Isaiah 52:13-15
      Isaiah 53:1-12
      “The Lord (the Father) has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him (the Messiah, the Son). (Isaiah 53:6)

      /////////////

      ken, where does it say, in the ot, where yhwh, the warrior god, who used to crush and curse the pagans , that he would get sacrificed by them to save from his wrath ? yhwh, did not PUNISH yhwh you IDIOT. yhwh was not PLEASED in punishing yhwh. you idiot.

      Like

    • please watch your language dude

      Liked by 1 person

    • I would appreciate if you would have a rational conversation without calling me an “idiot”. Have I ever done that with anyone here? As a Christian, we believe the Father was and is Yahweh and is eternal and the Son is also Yahweh by nature and eternal.

      “In the beginning was the Word and the Word with God (the Father) and the Word was God (by nature, substance). ” John 1:1

      “although He existed in the form of God, He did not hold on to that right as something to be held onto; but humbled Himself and became a man and became a servant (servant of Isaiah 52:13 to 53:15) – Philippians 2:5-8

      Liked by 1 person

    • Ken,
      In regard to Isaiah 52 & 53 these do not relate to Jesus, Rabbi Tovia Singer has repeatedly disproved this claim.

      The Abrahamic Sacrifice does not indicate the Crucifixion and this is just Christian reinterpretation.

      Peter doesn’t quote anyone in Acts….because he didn’t write Acts, but rather an unknown author wrote it and put words into Peter’s mouth after he was already deceased and could not defend himself from such forgery.

      Acts 3:15 As long as you are using allusion’s to prove your point, why not agree that “Prince of Life” is an allusion to “Amir al-Mumineen” the Prince of the faithful (Muhammad). Two can play your game.

      Whether or not Jesus fulfills Acts doesn’t really hold much weight since Acts was authored by a student of Paul anyway, and not by Jesus or any of his own Disciples. Acts was rejected by the Jews as a failed attempt to reinterpret the OT to fit with NT Paulinian theology.

      Neither does anything you wrote disprove Surah Surah 4:157.

      Liked by 3 people

    • It does not matter to me what Tovia Singer says about Isaiah 52-53 – we have first century Jews who said it was about Jesus the Messiah – it is Tovia Singer who has rejected his own Messiah and his own God, and that is why God judged the Pharisees, Saducees, priests, and temple of first century Judaism who rejected the true Messiah. 70 AD was God’s judgment on that generation.

      Matthew 23:36 – all these things will come upon this generation . . .

      Matthew 24:1-3
      Destruction of the temple in 70 AD – Jesus predicted it.

      Matthew 24:15 – spoken of by Daniel the prophet – points back to Daniel 9:24-27
      the Messiah the Prince first appears, then is cut off (died, as in Isaiah 53:8 – cut off from the land of the living), THEN the temple was destroyed. “Desolations are decreed” (Daniel 9:27) – Jesus decreed the desolations and predicted it in 30 AD (matthew 24; Luke 21; Mark 13) and it was fulfilled 40 years later .

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    • bro the very foundation of christianity is missing from the torah. as you can see that when yhwh saves or does saving or uses words like “salvation” he does not have the christian idea i.e a god KILLEd himself or got KILLEd to save from himself

      and please note

      yhwh NEVER performs sacrifices in jewish temple

      Liked by 1 person

    • Bro. Edward,
      One doesn’t have to listen to any Rabbi for very long to understand that there is a lot of foundational Christian doctrines that are missing from the Torah. Thus Christianity is built on shaky ground, and weak foundations. The Christian concept of salvation is antithetical to the OT teachings.

      On the other hand, we see honest Rabbi’s like Tovia Singer, or Maimonides, agreeing that the Islamic belief, honors and adheres to the OT teaching of God’s absolute Unity, and the mechanisms of salvation are very much similar in Judaism and Islam. Therefore, the foundations of Islam are built on much firmer ground.

      It is only Christianity that sticks out like a sore thumb, in the family of Abrahamic faiths. The Christian calibration is off, and out of sync with the two sister faiths, and this should be a clear indicator that Christian theology has been innovated and is not an accurate reflection of the divine monotheistic message.

      We may not be able to convince some of our Christian friends, like Ken Temple of these things, but we can pray for their guidance. In the meantime, we can point out their error, misinterpretation, and misunderstanding, by putting forth our own understandings of the texts, scriptures, and evidence in the hope that those truth seekers who are reading our comments will find the guidance that they are seeking.

      As our own Prophet once advised, we must always converse with others respectfully and in the best of manners. I know that is not always easy to do, but we must always try and the bar has been set high for us by our Prophet, and we must not let others drag us down or get the best of us.

      Liked by 5 people

    • Jesus fulfilled ALL the Torah – Matthew 5:17-20

      We hold to all the Torah, but not a method for earning salvation or justification. “The law is good if one uses it properly”. 1 Timothy 1:8-11 (in accordance with the gospel)
      the law tells you are a guilty sinner and you cannot keep it. It tells us God’s standard – ten commandments, Sermon on the Mount – Matthew 5:21-27 – the root of murder is anger and hatred in the heart.
      Matthew 5:27-30 – the root of adultery is sexual lust in the heart.
      The root of the sin of stealing is coveting and materialism and greed – mark 7:20-23; Colossians 3:5
      The root of other sins are pride in the heart – Mark 7:20-23

      The law condemns everyone as a sinner and is supposed to make you realize you are lost and going to hell and cause you to repent and turn to Christ, because only He fully obeyed all the law and when He died on the cross, His holy righteousness is imputed to all who trust Him and believe in Him (both applied to past OT saints – Genesis 15:1-6; Gen. 22:1-18) and future believers who look back to the cross and trust in His atonement – Romans 3:21-28

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    • “Destruction of the temple in 70 AD – Jesus predicted it.”

      in 1980 if i predicted that the world trade centres were going to collapse without mentioning the planes , i may have known of ATTEMPTS of people who tried to bring it down before

      50 years later someone says that i predicted the collapse of the trade centres

      but we discover 70 years (from 1980) that there were others who were making similar predictions without telling how it was brought down

      how is this proof that i knew of the planes ? because of other attempts i used guess work that there was a possibility that someones attempt would be successful

      in similar way jesus does not know that FIRE would bring it down

      all scholars know that luke is writing AFTER the destruction , he adds soldiers to his tale.

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    • Ken,
      I understand that what Rabbi Singer has to say about Isaiah does not matter to you, since you do not care to hear what mainstream Rabbi’s have to say about Christian re-interpretive eisegesis, and the Churchs’ innovated doctrines.

      I am sure you will disagree but scholarly consensus holds that the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of Luke were composed, independently of one another, sometime in the 80s or 90s. That means that the unknown author of Matthew wrote the “prophecy” about the destruction of the temple after the fact. I know that is a hard pill for Christians to swallow, but try to deal with the facts.

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    • Matthew was a disciple of Jesus and wrote his gospel between 50-60 AD.
      Luke was written by 61 or 62 AD, it is obvious by the way Acts ends abruptly in Acts 28, which was 62 AD. Therefore Luke was before that, which he says in Acts 1:1-5.

      If Matthew or Mark wrote is after the fact; then they would have said, “this came about when Titus and the Romans destroyed the temple (in such and such a time in our day – according to time signatures of that time.) See John A. T. Robinson’s book, Re-dating the NT.

      “One of the oddest facts about the
      New Testament is that what on any
      showing would appear to be the
      single most datable and climactic
      event of the period – the fall of
      Jerusalem in AD 70, and with it the
      collapse of institutional Judaism
      based on the temple – is never once
      mentioned as a past fact. ” John A. T. Robinson

      http://richardwaynegarganta.com/redating-testament.pdf

      Like

    • Ken only a vey few scholars agree with those dates. The vast majority date the gospels after the fall of Jerusalem.

      You quote a notorious liberal scholar John A. T. Robinson. Somewhat hypocritically I think.

      Like

    • But Robinson does not use his anti-supernatural bias as the basis for his belief that all NT books were written before 70 AD; just the opposite. He looks at the substance and issues and texts, and comes to his conclusions based on evidence.

      Like

    • Antisupernatural bias ? Lol. You are showing your ignorance of how scholarship works Ken. And Robinson is still a so-called liberal scholar who rejected your fundamentalist beliefs.

      Funny how you cite liberals when coincidentally their views agree with yours. Other times you throw them under the bus. Inconsistent.

      Like

    • Have you read Robinson’s book?

      He uses evidence for his conclusions on pre-70 AD dating for the NT; not his anti-supernatural liberal bias. He rejects doctrinal beliefs, yes; but on pre-70 AD NT dating, he uses evidence.

      Like

    • Nearly all other scholars have REJECTED Robinson’s wild claims.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Have you read his book ? (all of it) It makes total sense and is logical and compelling, and persuasive.

      Like

    • I have not read all of it. But scholars who have reviewed it have all rejected his dates as highly improbable. Stop relying on liberal scholarship Ken.

      Like

    • LOL –
      on that issue, he does not use liberal pre-suppositions, but sticks to the evidence.

      Like

    • “It does not matter to me what Tovia Singer says about Isaiah 52-53 – we have first century Jews who said it was about Jesus the Messiah – it is Tovia Singer who has rejected his own Messiah and his own God, and that is why God judged the Pharisees, Saducees, priests, and temple of first century Judaism who rejected the true Messiah. 70 AD was God’s judgment on that generation.”

      “we have first century jews…”

      where does isaiah 52:53 say that yhwh would CRUSH himself?

      how is it possible to understand isaiah 53 in christological sense?

      how is an asham offering imply that yhwh is doing the guilt ?

      asham

      Asham: Guilt Offering

      A guilt offering is an offering to atone for sins of stealing things from the altar, for when you are not sure whether you have committed a sin or what sin you have committed, or for breach of trust. The Hebrew word for a guilt offering is asham. When there was doubt as to whether a person committed a sin, the person would make an asham, rather than a chatat, because bringing a chatat would constitute admission of the sin, and the person would have to be punished for it. If a person brought an asham and later discovered that he had in fact committed the sin, he would have to bring a chatat at that time. An asham was eaten by the kohanim.

      now what does this have to do with yhwh becoming an ASHAM?


      I would appreciate if you would have a rational conversation without calling me an “idiot”. Have I ever done that with anyone here? As a Christian, we believe the Father was and is Yahweh and is eternal and the Son is also Yahweh by nature and eternal. ”

      where does yhwh say that he would crush himself when in tanakh he is the one doing the killing and crushing ?

      quote:
      “In the beginning was the Word and the Word with God (the Father) and the Word was God (by nature, substance). ” John 1:1
      “although He existed in the form of God, He did not hold on to that right as something to be held onto; but humbled Himself and became a man and became a servant (servant of Isaiah 52:13 to 53:15) – Philippians 2:5-8

      what is this?

      Liked by 1 person

  3. “Genesis 22:1-18 is in the Torah.”

    ken, can we see where yhwh was getting ready to get it handed by the pagans he used to SMASH and curse?
    can you show where “salvation” in hebrew means saved from a god who sacrificed himself

    Like

  4. Then the mother of Zebedee’s sons (SONS OF THUNDER*) came to Jesus with her sons and knelt down to make a request of Him. “What do you want?” He asked.

    She answered, “Declare that in Your kingdom one of these two sons of mine will sit at Your right hand, and the other at Your left.”

    When the ten heard about this, they were indignant with the two brothers. But Jesus called them aside and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their superiors exercise authority over them. It shall not be this way among you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.”

    What kind of God comes to serve mankind and to give away his life for the benefit of others?

    * my emphasis

    Like

  5. Paul, He was unique among men. As the most powerful person who ever lived, I wouldn’t expect Him to emphasize service, serving others as a key to personal fulfillment.

    Like

  6. Notice how human these two Big Boys were, having mom fight for them to secure top status positions with the boss! A riot.

    Like

Trackbacks

  1. Jesus, the Suffering Servant Messiah | Apologetics and Agape
  2. Muhammad: The Slave and Property of the Lord Jesus Christ – Answering Islam Blog

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