Tony Costa Said Muslims Pray to Muhammad? What!

Tony Costa took a plunge in the low-level internet polemics pit. Disappointing.

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This is a low-level internet polemic which really involves ignorance or a complete shut-down of any desire to accurately represent the Muslim faith on the part of the person making such an argument.

The polemicist isolates one statement in a part of the Muslim prayer called the tashahhud:
“al-salaamu ‘alayka ayyhu’l-nabiyyu (peace be upon you, O Prophet)”.

The polemicist then proceeds to make a song and dance about it claiming it means Muslims pray to Muhammad. Yep, that’s their argument!

A few thoughts on this:

1. The Muslim prays to God alone. In fact, the Salah is commenced with the recitation of Surah Al Fatihaha. Verse 5 is rendered in English: “You [God] we worship, and You [God] we ask for help”. Thus from the very beginning of the prayer it is evident the prayer is to Allah. 

Why would Muslims later on in the prayer decide to, all of a sudden, start praying to Prophet Muhammad especially given the fact the Quran teaches against this action? The Quran teaches us not to invoke another with Allah. Only Allah should be invoked.

“So invoke not with Allah another ilah (god) lest you be among those who receive punishment” [Quran 26: 213]

And we are taught only the Creator and not the creation should be invoked in Quran chapter 16:

20. Those whom they (Al-Mushrikun ) invoke besides Allah have not created anything, but are themselves created.
21. (They are) dead, lifeless, and they know not when they will be raised up.
22. Your Ilah (God) is One Ilah (God Allah, none has the right to be worshipped but He). But for those who believe not in the Hereafter, their hearts deny (the faith in the Oneness of Allah), and they are proud. 

2. If the polemicist is consistent with this argument then they will also say we worship ourselves and other Muslims at the congregational prayers too as the sentence after in the tashahhuud goes “peace be upon us…”!

Obviously we aren’t worshipping ourselves and those in the congregation with us! We don’t believe those in the congregation can hear our prayers!

3. The polemicist doesn’t even understand the statement “al-salaamu ‘alayka (peace be upon you)” – it’s obviously not a prayer to Prophet Muhammad. Shaykh Uthameen explained this very simply – to be honest you really don’t need a shaykh to tell you that statement is NOT a prayer to Prophet Muhammad p but rather a supplication to Allah to bless the Prophet:

Are the words “al-salaamu ‘alayka (peace be upon you)” a statement or a supplication? I.e., are you stating that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is in a state of peace or are you asking Allaah to grant him peace?

The answer is that it is a du’aa’ (supplication) in which you are praying to Allaah to send peace upon him. This is a statement which is serving as a supplication. [Source]

4. Muslims don’t believe the Prophet is even listening to the prayer so how can Muslims be trying to pray to Prophet Muhammad? When Muslims ask Allah to bless the Prophet it gets conveyed via the angels. Shaykh ibn al-Uthaymeen rahimahullah beautifully states,

We say: if you send salaam upon him from the farthest ends of the earth, your salaam will reach him, because Allah has appointed angels who travel about the earth, and if anyone sends salaams upon the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), they convey that salaam to the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). So if we say now, “O Allah, send blessings and peace upon the Messenger of Allah,” our salaam will be transmitted to him. In prayer we say, “Al-salaamu ‘alayka ayyuha’l-nabiyyu wa rahmat-Allahi wa barakatuhu (Peace be upon you, O Prophet, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings),” and the salaam is transmitted to him…

For the hadith he refers to concerning the angels transmitting the salaam to the Prophet:

The Messenger of Allah sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam said: “Allah has angels who go around on earth, conveying to me the salaam of my ummah.” [Sunan Nasaa’i, Saheeh Al-Albani]
[Source]

5. The polemicist again doesn’t show a familiarity with the prayer as after two sentences after the statement in question the Muslim asks Allah to send blessings upon the Prophet in a similar way Prophet Abraham was blessed:

`Allahumma salli `ala Muhammadin, wa `ala aali Muhammadin, kama sallaita `ala  Ibrahima wa ala aali ibrahim…[O Allah, send your graces, honour and mercy on Muhammad and the family of Muhammad as you did with Ibrahim and his family...] 

Now think about it, if the Salah involves “praying” to Muhammad then why does it  after two statements go to a supplication beginning with “O Allah” to bless the Prophet? It’s obvious the prayer is to Allah!

On a side point, the asking of blessings to be sent to Prophet Muhammad p is in accordance with the divine command in the Quran (ref. 33:56). It actually benefits us to ask as we receive blessings for it! It’s very interesting to note the Bible talks about those who bless Abraham in a positive way, according to the Bible, God says this, whilst addressing Abram (Abraham):

I will bless those who bless you,and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you. (Genesis 12:3 NIV)

The fact that our Prophet taught us to mention “like Abraham” when asking Allah to send blessings on our Prophet  maybe in reference to this special status Abraham had as parsed from Genesis 12:3.

[May Allah send more peace and blessings upon Abraham and Muhammad pbut]

5. Lastly, any academic and fair minded person will acknowledge Islam forbids praying to the creation and that Islam is based on the principle of monotheism. Everybody who knows something about Islam knows this right? I don’t need to pull out a quote from an academic. Let’s go to our Jewish brothers. Rabbi Tovia Singer states Islam is definitely not idolatry – Muslims worship one God.

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Hopefully Tony Costa can learn from this. Folks, let’s have a higher view of fairness,  a desire to honestly and accurately represent other faiths.

References:

“Believers! Send your Blessings on him” – Resource for Salawat on the Prophet

Do we say say Al Salamu Alaika in /tashahhud?

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Categories: Islam

52 replies

  1. desperate times require desperate measures.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. This is hilarious on so many levels.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. So stupid… almost as bad as these idiots saying Allāh does shirk in the Qur’ān when He swears by various things. Not making that up.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Reference please, low-level troll…

      Liked by 1 person

    • Surah 69:38 Allah swears by all that you can see. Can you see a pig? If so then allah swears by it.

      Like

    • LOL classic troll. Is there a point buried in this already growing mountain of bullshit? Because MY point was that it’s not shirk, and the Christians who say so are stupid.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Abu so you have no problem allah swearing by the pig lol.

      BTW it is shirk because you swear by something that is as powerful or greater than yourself. Thats why the true living God only swears by himself and nothing else. Because there is nothing greater than he.

      Like

    • So you’re proposing not only that God worships Himself, but that He also associates partners in that worship. So like I said: stupid.

      And yes, pigs are amazing creatures. All animals are. Glorified be He.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Leave it to uneducated trolls like Kmac to come up with such ridiculous stuff about the Quran. If God’s swearing by something implied shirk, surely Muhammad’s opponents would have pointed that out? But no. We are to believe absolute nobodies like Wood, Shamoun and their groupies have figured it all out. You’d think that being in the anti-Islamic business for over a decade these pieces of trash would come up with something academic or at least sophisticated. But no. They are still the same ignorant clowns they were 10 years ago.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Of course, Kmak. But I can’t imagine how wonderful it must feel to live in a world where you can make money by being wrong. About everything. All the time.

      Like

    • Abu pay attention here. If the point of swearing is to swear by something either equal in power to yourself or greater than your self than Allah swearing by everything you see is him swearing by something that is either equal to him (Partner) or Greater than he is.

      Now I’m not saying that the author or authors of the quran really thought much about the nonsense the put into that book. But the problem remains allah swears by things that he should not be swearing by.

      And if Pigs are such amazing creatures then why is the Islamic Isa going to kill all of them?

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    • Okay, go beg the question somewhere else. Got no time for your shenanigans. Especially if you wanna talk about “nonsense” as if your entire belief system is anything but that.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Kmac: And if Pigs are such amazing creatures then why is the Islamic Isa going to kill all of them?

      So that the likes of you can go on a diet.

      Liked by 1 person

    • those oaths are clearly indirect reference to the greatness of God .

      http://www.academia.edu/9700769/Oaths_In_the_Quran

      Liked by 2 people

  4. Christians like him are demanded by their god to worship Abraham. Tony why don’t you WORSHIP (Shachah) Abraham as the Bible commands you too?

    “May nations serve you and peoples bow down (SHACHAH) to you. Be lord over your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down (SHACHAH) to you. May those who curse you be cursed and those who bless you be blessed.” – Genesis 27:29

    The same exact word is used in the following verse,

    “Then the LORD said to Moses, “Come up to the LORD, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to WORSHIP (SHACHAH) at a distance,” – Exodus 24:1

    Wala, we have found another god to add to the trinity. What would Tony Costa call it, Quadrinity?

    on Surah 33:56

    https://discover-the-truth.com/2014/11/26/quran-3356-myth-allah-prays-to-muhammed-p/

    Liked by 3 people

    • FP. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

      Tony, was doing all sorts of gymnastics to try and get his polemic to stick (which somebody has told me may have been borrowed from Nabeel Qureshi’s book as he uses arguments like these in his book – an indictment on the standard of his book clearly).

      Wonder if Tony is on Twitter asking Jews and his fellow Christians if they worship Abraham.

      I wish there were some older mare mature pastors who would take these guys aside and ask them to rethink his approach. Talk about consistency with him. I’m trying to show concern for Christians here.

      I’m concerned about Tony especially as he’s an academic. He knows the importance of research yet this is not the first time we’ve seen Tony abandon regard for research and intellectual integrity. Tony can;t really use the excuse of not having the mental tools and experience. So one wonders what it is with Tony.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. These kind of stupid accusations imply that christians are so ashamed from worshiping a human being.
    Tony Costa is one from the clown’s boys, after all.

    Liked by 5 people

  6. Thank you, Dr (?) Tony Costa. I did not know I’ve been praying to myself all this time. Without your exceptional knowledge of the subtleties of the Arabic language I would have never known.

    (abysmal and embarrassing)

    Liked by 3 people

  7. This reference to Genesis 12:3 is absurd. This is about those who blessed Abraham WHEN HE WAS ALIVE! There is no single Jew or Christian who say this absurd sentence after speaking the names of one of the prophets: [May Allah send more peace and blessings upon Abraham].
    Abraham is dead, and so is Mohammed (if he ever existed). Only Jesus is alive after he resurrected. And Jesus does not need our blessings, as he is exalted by God, in the state he was before he humbled himself when came to earth in the appearance of a servant.

    And why should you send blessings on someone who is already dead? You will do that only if this person is in not heaven and if salvation is still possible when someone has deceased.
    So what a poor religion is the islam if you are not certain of your salvation. That is in huge contrast with the doctrine of the bible that says that God saves us FOR SURE when we believe. and follow Jesus.

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    • Harry,

      On what basis can you question the existence of Muhammad (or Abraham if that’s who you were questioning) and consistently not apply that same questioning to Jesus’ existence?

      I believe all three existed. The naturalist evidence for Prophet Muhammad p existing is greater than what we have for Prophets Jesus or Abraham.

      So where’s the consistency in your thought?

      As for living, God is the one who sustains Jesus so the fact that he is living doesn’t amount to anything beyond him being a creation of God.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Based on the FACTS that there are no serious writings about Mohammed from the 7th century. The first time a prophet Mohammed was mentioned was on a COIN from the late 7th century. Also early quranic manuscripts show that it is very likely that the quran and the islam are developments that took hundreds of years. The serious hadith and sirahs are written 200-300 after Mohammeds death. And these are written by muslims.
      There is no other non-muslim historian from the 7th century that wrote about a prophet Mohammed.

      I do not claim that Mohammed did not exist, I question this.

      And indeed, the existence of Abraham is harder to proof than the existence of Mohammed. The first source that wrote about Abraham was the Torah. The Tanach and the new testament confirmed his existence and are very close to what the Torah says about Abraham, unlike the quran.

      The existence of Jesus, however, is much more proven than the existence of Mohammed. Not only the new testament says a lot about Jesus’ life (all these books are written in the 1st century, 30-60 years after Jesus ascension to heaven, but also Greek, Roman and Jewish historians wrote about Jesus. They do at least agree that Jesus died on the cross.

      Indeed, the human BODY of Jesus was created by God. God came to us through the appearance of a human body. But the Son did already exist before Jesus body was born. He appeared many times in the Tanach.

      So what sources do you rely on for the existence of Mohammed? I guess only the traditional islamic sources, or do you have other sources that confirms the existence of a prophet with the name Mohammed, and all the stories from hadith and sirah?

      Why do you ask God for blessing upon Mohammed and other dead prophets? If they are in heaven, why do you need to ask God to bless them? They are already highly blessed when they are in heaven, unless you are not certain that they are there.

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    • from a historical perspective who is more likely to have existed

      100 % fully god and fully man born of a virgin

      or 100 % human married to a wife and has mother and father ?

      “And why should you send blessings on someone who is already dead? You will do that only if this person is in not heaven and if salvation is still possible when someone has deceased.”

      but in the islamic texts even people in heaven would say peace to each other .

      Like

    • @mr.heathcliff:
      “from a historical perspective who is more likely to have existed

      100 % fully god and fully man born of a virgin

      or 100 % human married to a wife and has mother and father ?”

      Really? Is a story about a man, being married to a (a?? I thought nine, five more than allowed) wife and having a mother and a father, real evidence? So all stories about married men, with a father and mother are 100% true? Ridiculous claim.
      Is it also the story that Mohammed went to heaven on a donkey evidence that he existed?

      “but in the islamic texts even people in heaven would say peace to each other .”

      So what? Does that take away the absurdity that you have to wish blessings to someone who is in heaven? What if the person in heaven does not receive blessings, what is he doing in heaven? Isn’t it ridiculous that you are also not certain that you receive blessings when you are in heaven?

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    • @mr.heathcliff:
      “from a historical perspective who is more likely to have existed

      100 % fully god and fully man born of a virgin

      or 100 % human married to a wife and has mother and father ?”

      quote:
      Really? Is a story about a man, being married to a (a?? I thought nine, five more than allowed) wife and having a mother and a father, real evidence? So all stories about married men, with a father and mother are 100% true? Ridiculous claim.

      isn’t it more likely than a god impregnating his own mother and being born of her?

      how is it ridiculous?

      “Is it also the story that Mohammed went to heaven on a donkey evidence that he existed?”

      all i am asking is that from a historical perspective which is more LIKELY

      a god being born of his mother without a father or

      muhammad having wife, mother and father and being involved in wars

      which is more likely ?

      remember, HISTORICAL perspective, not miracle perspective.

      “but in the islamic texts even people in heaven would say peace to each other .”

      “So what? Does that take away the absurdity that you have to wish blessings to someone who is in heaven?”

      why is wishing blessing upon someone in heaven absurd?

      tell me what is wrong with saying “peace” to someone in heaven even if there is no danger or anything troubling?

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    • why do man worshiping/creature worshipers have to interpret “peace” to mean peace from danger or peace from trouble?

      Like

    • [Ibraaheem 14:23]

      “And those who kept their duty to their Lord (Al-Muttaqoon – the pious) will be led to Paradise in groups till when they reach it, and its gates will be opened (before their arrival for their reception) and its keepers will say: Salaamun ‘Alaykum (peace be upon you)!”

      [az-Zumar 39:73]

      “And angels shall enter unto them from every gate (saying):

      ‘Salaamun ‘Alaikum (peace be upon you) for you persevered in patience! Excellent indeed is the final home!’”

      [ar-Ra‘d 13:23, 24].

      Like

    • @mr heathcliff:
      “isn’t it more likely than a god impregnating his own mother and being born of her?
      a god being born of his mother without a father or”

      These are indeed ridiculous thoughts. But if you think that this is the Christian doctrine, you are completely wrong. This is NOT what Christians believe.

      “why is wishing blessing upon someone in heaven absurd?

      tell me what is wrong with saying “peace” to someone in heaven even if there is no danger or anything troubling?”

      Is that so difficult to understand? So if you have a beautiful wife, and I wish you to have a beautiful wife, how strange is that? Another example: if the weather is great, and I wish you great weather, isn’t that stupid? Why should you wish something you already have? If there is peace in heaven, for now and ever, how stupid is to to wish each other peace? You have it already there! You only wish someone something he did not have or something he can loose.

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    • “So all stories about married men, with a father and mother are 100% true? Ridiculous claim.”

      you do know that richard carrier and other jesus’ mythcist are refuting your sources for external corroboration, right?

      every source you mention for jesus has been contested , do you know?

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    • “Is that so difficult to understand? So if you have a beautiful wife, and I wish you to have a beautiful wife, how strange is that? Another example: if the weather is great, and I wish you great weather, isn’t that stupid? Why should you wish something you already have? If there is peace in heaven, for now and ever, how stupid is to to wish each other peace? You have it already there! You only wish someone something he did not have or something he can loose.”

      there you go again imposing your understanding of “trouble and danger”

      forget it. it is pointless responding back.

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    • O yeah, and Richard Spencer has refuted the existence of Mohammed!

      See here the muslim double standard.

      How stupid is it to refer to Richard Carrier. He denies the existence of Jesus. JESUS IS ALSO IN THE QURAN, DEAR MUSLIM. So time to burn your quran then.

      Quote from your best non-muslim friend:
      “The crucifixion of Jesus by the Romans is one of the most secure facts we have about his life”

      So even the most quoted non-muslim by muslims refutes the quran.

      Like

    • harry are you on drugs? do you not see that you are not being consistent?

      Liked by 1 person

    • Quote from your best non-muslim friend:
      “The crucifixion of Jesus by the Romans is one of the most secure facts we have about his life”

      this has been contested too.

      quote :
      The Romans kept accurate records of every political and judicial event. There is no record of Pontius Pilate trying and executing a man named Jesus. Only two Roman writers of Jesus’ time mention Christians (Pliny and Svetonius) but they don’t mention Jesus. The first Roman to mention Jesus is Tacitus, but almost a century after the death of Jesus.

      isn’t it interesting that paul does not mention anything about where your god was crucified and WHO pinned your god?

      quote:
      “One of the striking and, to many people, surprising facts about the first century is that we don’t have any Roman records, of any kind, that attest to the existence of Jesus. We have no birth certificate, no references to his words or deeds, no accounts of his trial, no description of his death–no reference to him whatsoever in any way, shape, or form. Jesus’s name is not even mentioned in any Roman source of the first century.”

      if ehrman were to be consistent he would actually support the fact that jesus’ so called crucifixion is UNKNOWN .

      Liked by 1 person

    • “Is that so difficult to understand? So if you have a beautiful wife, and I wish you to have a beautiful wife, how strange is that? Another example: if the weather is great, and I wish you great weather, isn’t that stupid? Why should you wish something you already have? If there is peace in heaven, for now and ever, how stupid is to to wish each other peace? You have it already there! You only wish someone something he did not have or something he can loose.”

      can one express their feeling to the other when they are in peace?

      Like

    • Thank you for quoting randomly from the internet, without any mentioning of source! Bravo!
      As you can quote from the internet, I can do that as well:
      THE evidence that Mohammed never existed IS FOUND ON THE INTERNET!!:
      “that Muhammad may never have existed, ”

      “can one express their feeling to the other when they are in peace?”

      Is that the same as wishing another something?
      Big difference:
      Peace be upon you, mr. heathcliff
      OR
      Great peace do you have, mr. heathcliff

      Again: it is absurd to wish you peace, when you already have it and can’t loose it.

      Like

    • “Peace be upon you, mr. heathcliff
      OR
      Great peace do you have, mr. heathcliff”

      WTF are you talking about?

      let me try again

      first of all what is the BENEFIT for believers to wish peace and blessing upon the prophet?

      is the word “salaam” ALWAYS means protection from DANGER and trouble?

      when one is in heaven and expresses his inner feeling and the feelings around him with the word peace, does that mean one has the feeling of danger and being in trouble?

      Like

    • Harry ,

      Since there is no specific response from you , we agree that muslims are ok with the doctrine of the bible with regards to believing in Jesus & following him in his worship of God.

      If the ‘Son of God’ had human nature – he’s human ,not God. There is no such thing as human and God coexisting in a body.You cannot have it both ways. According to the doctrine of your bible – if Jesus had human nature …. why worship him?

      I am not 100% sure but 1000% sure that we muslims would end up in paradise per Allah promise. Quran 31:8-9 (sahih international)
      – Indeed, those who believe and do righteous deeds – for them are the Gardens of Pleasure.
      – Wherein they abide eternally; [it is] the promise of Allah [which is] truth. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

      BTW – anywhere in the bible where your Man God promise you heaven if you worship him?

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  8. ‘….That is in huge contrast with the doctrine of the bible that says that God saves us FOR SURE when we believe. and follow Jesus….’

    It is an article of faith for us muslims to believe in Prophet Eesa(as). We muslims also follow him as we follow his worship of Allah. He prostrated to Allah …. we muslims also prostrate to Allah

    Appears that we muslims are ok according to the doctrine of the bible

    Like

    • For the time that the Son of God was on earth, in a human body, he was submitted to God. Not by his Divine nature, but by his human nature. So all the claims muslims take from the NT that shows a submitted Jesus are about his human nature, not his Divine nature. The bible is very clear about this doctrine, so you are NOT ok with the doctrine of the bible.

      And tell me: are you 100% sure that you go to heaven? Or could it be that God outweighs your sins against your good deeds?

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  9. @FP: JAK. The catholic translation of Gen 27:29 actually uses the word “worship”

    Douay-Rheims Bible

    “And let peoples serve thee, and tribes worship thee: be thou lord of thy brethren, and let they mother’s children bow down before thee. Cursed be he that curseth thee: and let him that blesseth thee be filled with blessings.”

    Liked by 1 person

    • Maybe an article should be on its way for these missionaries. Maybe, just maybe they will abandon their trinity doctrine and adopt quaternity (Four Gods) :p

      Liked by 1 person

    • Genesis 27:29 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

      29 And let peoples serve thee, and tribes WORSHIP thee: be thou lord of thy brethren, and let thy mother’s children bow down before thee. Cursed be he that curseth thee: and let him that blesseth thee be filled with blessings.

      And so is this translation:

      Genesis 27:29 Wycliffe Bible (WYC)

      29 and (may) peoples serve thee, and lineages WORSHIP thee; be thou lord of thy brethren, and the sons of thy mother be bowed (low) before thee; be he cursed that curseth thee, and he that blesseth thee, be he [full-]filled with blessings (be they cursed who curse thee, but let those who bless thee, be filled full with blessings). Wycliffe Bible (WYC) 2001 by Terence P. Noble

      Cheeze, soon the trinity will be abondoned and we will hear god is four in one everywhere. They willl soon adopt quaternity position…

      Like

    • You show a lot of ignorance about the bible and the meaning of Hebrew words. The word shâchâh is used many times in the bible, both for worshipping God and for showing submission to other people.

      Here you can find all verses where the word shâchâh is mentioned: http://studybible.info/search/ASV_Strongs/H7812

      Like

    • @harry: Is it possible that christian theologians are themselves ignorant of the Bible? If you read the Bible and your theology you can’t but admit that there is complete disconnect between bile and Christians theology. Look at this quote from a major Evangelical scholar in the latest nytimes interview

      “Jesus’ teaching was not the main point of his mission.”

      Like

    • So the main mission was of Jesus wasn’t why taught he came for! and then they insert their own meanings to the teachings of Jesus based on Pauline doctrine. Wonderful

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    • @RationalMuslim: “Is it possible that christian theologians are themselves ignorant of the Bible?”

      Your question can only be answered with YES. But is that different when I ask the same question, but in this way:
      “Is it possible that islamic theologians are themselves ignorant of the quran and hadith?”
      The question will also be: YES

      Even if there is only ONE christian theologian, who is ignorant of the bible, the answer is: yes.

      So the question is wrong.

      ” If you read the Bible and your theology you can’t but admit that there is complete disconnect between bible and Christians theology.”
      The reason you wrote this is: “Jesus’ teaching was not the main point of his mission.”

      I do not see any connection between these two at all. It has nothing to do with ignorance about the about, but how we read the bible. If all Christian read the bible in exactly the same way, there were no different meanings about the bible. But how different is that compared to the islam? Do you agree with Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi? I don’t hope so. And do sunnié and shia agree? I don’t think so.

      So, what is your point?

      BTW: I fully agree with Tim Keller in these. Jesus’ teachings weren’t new. These are all based in what was written in the Tanach, so Jesus was not bringing a new message. He taught us the real meaning of the Torah. The Jews were more focussing in what they do for God, rather than what God is doing for them. And so are the muslims doing as well. The Jews thought that they were pleasing God with their rituals, Jesus taught us to love God above all and each other as ourselves. THAT was the real meaning of the Torah. So Jesus life is an example for us. He was the ultimate expression of God’s love for the world. The Jews forgot the word Love and that is also very scarce in the islam. Jesus showed us what real love is, he was able to do that, because Jesus was the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.

      That’s why I have so many problems with the quran, which is a book of war, especially in the last Medinian surahs. I do not find these kind of violence and hatred with Jesus, who live in a hostile environment. Jesus had all the reasons to fight back, but he didn’t.

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    • “So the main mission was of Jesus wasn’t why taught he came for! and then they insert their own meanings to the teachings of Jesus based on Pauline doctrine. Wonderful”

      You linked to an article, quoted ONE sentence and made your ridiculous conclusion. That is NOT what Tim Keller said AT ALL. Just Paulus taught the importance of Jesus death and resurrection, so Paulus was very clear about this and that is exact what Tim Keller says.
      So you muslims distort things again. Over and over again.

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  10. Such low level polemics.

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  11. By the way, why is is necessary to pray in Arabic? Does Allah not understand other languages?

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    • @Harry: don’t change the subject. Do you any explicit statement from Jesus where he said you must believe in his death and resurrection to be save? Don’t give tangential answer. Jesus must have known why he came? So give explicit answer.

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  12. Why Jesus came: in his own words

    “I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent” (Luke 5:32).

    “The Son of Man came to seek and save those who are lost” (Luke 19:10).

    “Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34).

    “I entered this world to render judgment—to give sight to the blind and to show those who think they see that they are blind” (John 9:39).

    “I have come as a light to shine in this dark world, so that all who put their trust in me will no longer remain in the dark” (John 12:46).

    These are explicit saying of Jesus where he teaches his main purpose. Do you see anywhere that Jesus teaches you must believe in his future death and resurrection to be saved?

    But wait how about the ransom verse? Lets read it together.

    41 When the ten heard about this, they became indignant with James and John. 42 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 43 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” (Mark 10)

    Here Jesus saying if you like to saved ( if u want to be first) you must be slave and the way to be slave is to follow him and be willing to give his life as ransom as he is willing. In any case he never said about his death or resurrection. Ransom doesn’t mean death . I am baffled how christian theologians tie it to death and resurrection of Jesus.

    In any case here are the goals that Jesus TAUGHT in him own words. That’s why I tell that unless you have sold yourself to Paul, there is no reason to impose his theology upon Jesus. Why not let Jesus speak himself?

    It took me a while to understand why Christians don’t give damn about teaching of Jesus. However it seems it is well known and understood by christian theologians. From Bultmann to Tim Keller and this (http://doctrine.org/) , all serious theologians acknowledge that teaching of Jesus in his earthly ministry is irrelevant. Some say so openly , some do a “work around”.

    Now it is upto individual Christians to decide whether be faithful to Jesus or to Paul and councils. You can’t have both.

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