Unlike the present Bible the Qur’an claims to be a Revelation from the Almighty

One would expect, as an antecedent probability, that if God wished to send down to mankind a Revelation, that He would announce this amazing fact clearly. This the Quran does in many places. The first instance is at the beginning of the second chapter, reproduced below from the Yusuf Ali translation.

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Categories: Bible, Quran

17 replies

  1. Spot on, Mr. Williams. The Qur’an is unique in how clear, emphatic, and repetitive it is in that it is from God Himself.

    Are there any verses within the books of the library of books put together as the Bible that say it is from God like the many, many verses in the Qur’an in terms of it’s clarity?

    I am not that knowledgable of the Bible….I know there are verses that say God gave ten commandments and I assume (someone correct me if I am wrong) that there are verses in the Torah and other books that said that God sent the Torah, but I don’t think there are these clear verses like in the Qur’an.

    The problems in the New Testament are further compounded, since they are shown to not be put together by from the real disciples with perhaps exception of the book attributed to James.

    So sad that mankind reads and consumes so much information in internet, news, gossip, etc. but neglects the very words that God says, here, this is from ME.

    Liked by 2 people

    • certainly parts of the library of books we call the Bible claim to be from God such as books of the prophets, the 613 commandments given to Moses and the teaching of Jesus.

      But the Christian Bible as a canon of scripture does not make this claim.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Paul was writing
    ” I say this not as a commands……, And in this matter I give (((MY))) judgment: this benefits you, who a year ago started not only to do this work but also to desire to do it ” 2 Corinthians 8: 8-10

    Liked by 1 person

  3. In the first place Williams Q. 2:2 says nothing about the Quran since it speaks of that (thalika) book which, as the immediate context shows, is the book of the Jews and Christians. If this was referring to the Quran then it would have used hatha, not thalika. You even have some of your renowned Muslim scholars admitting that this verse is referring to the previous Scriptures. Do I need to quote them here?

    With that said, can you be please be so kind and quote for me where the Quran says ALL OF THE QURAN is the word of your god. From there, please show me a verse from the Quran which tells us what all of it is, i.e. a passage that says this is the Quran which consists of 114 surahs containing this many verses.

    On a related point, please show me where any of the following surahs claim to be the word of Allah, where they say “and this is a book that Allah sent down”, or “and this is the Quran revealed from the Lord of all the worlds”, or something to that affect: 1, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 110, 111.

    This is just for starters. I will wait for your reply.

    Like

    • Thanks Sam. The best thing about this site is your rebuttals.

      Like

    • Sam,
      Interesting!

      It would be interesting to see the Islamic scholars who think Surah 2:2 is about the previous Scriptures.
      Ibn Kathir says it is about the Qur’an and from a basic google search, I found a Shiite site says it is about the Qur’an.

      http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=455#1

      Since you know, Sam, it would help to give us the scholars who say Surah 2:2 is about the Bible.

      Where in the context does it mean the previous Scriptures?

      Like

    • Pauly Wally My Paly Waly!

      April 13, 2017 • 11:36 pm

      In the first place Williams Q. 2:2 says nothing about the Quran since it speaks of that (thalika) book which, as the immediate context shows, is the book of the Jews and Christians. If this was referring to the Quran then it would have used hatha, not thalika.

      I say;
      “Verily, I revealed the Quran and verily I will preserve it.” [Noble Quran 15:9]
      “Verily, this Quran guides (humanity) to that which is most just.” [Noble Quran 17:9]

      When the Quran says “I”, it means Allah alone and no one else because Allah is 1.

      What is “thalika” or “hatha”?

      No Islamic scholar both Muslims and Non Muslims like John L. Esposito of Georgetown University ever spoke of any book of the Jews and Christians sent by God thalika. I have never heard anyone including even Christians who read Quran claiming the Quran is referring to “thalika” as a Jews and Christian books sent by God..

      The Quran said God sent scriptures in the Past but no where did it say God sent the books of the Jews and Christians.

      Quran 2.2 never mentions Jews or Christians nor books to Jews and Christians and so it is not good to say it means the Bible.

      The Quran is cleaver than us all, so it is wise not to mention any Jews and Christians for you to misquote it.

      The Quran means recitation/read and it is clear that Allah has sent recitations(Quran) to all mankind with our prophet starting the recitation and passing it to us.

      “The month of Ramadan in which I revealed the Quran as guidance to mankind …” [Noble Quran 2:185]

      Thanks.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Brother Achilles thanks for the kind words. Please make sure to read all my stuff which you can find on the blog and answering islam website. There are tons more info like this to make Williams cringe.

      Brother Ken, here you go:

      Finally, even some Muslim scholars understood S. 2:2 as referring to the Holy Bible as that book in which there is no doubt. Ibn Kathir acknowledges the fact that some viewed the phrase ‘that book’ as referring to the Bible:

      HAS BEEN INTERPRETED BY SOME AS THE TORAH AND THE GOSPEL, which is highly unlikely and useless elaboration on a matter about which they know nothing. The correct interpretation is that it refers to the Qur’an.” (Tafsir Ibn Kathir – Part 1 Surah Al-Fatiah Surah Al-Baqarah, ayat 1 to 141, abridged by Sheikh Muhammad Nasib Ar-Rafa’i [Al-Firdous Ltd., London, 1998 Second Edition], p. 57)

      Mahmoud M. Ayoub states:

      Most commentators have agreed that dhalika al-kitab (that is the Book) means hadha al-kitab (this is the Book). Tabari reports the view on the authority of ‘Ikrimah, al-Suddi and Ibn ‘Abbas that “Kitab may refer to the surahs which were sent down before Surat al-Baqarah in Mecca… Some commentators have claimed that the word kitab refers TO THE TORAH AND THE GOSPEL AND NOT THE QUR’AN (see Tabari, I, pp. 227-228).
      And,

      … Other commentators have said that the word kitab refers either to the Torah and the Gospel in which the Qur’an is explained or to them both, meaning that the Qur’an included both the Torah and the Gospel … (Ayoub, The Qur’an and Its Interpreters, Volume One [State University of New York Press, Albany, 1984], pp. 62, 63)

      Sir William Muir cites Jalaludeen:

      “That which hath been revealed BEFORE THEE, viz. the Pentateuch and the Gospel, &c.”
      ما أنزل من قبلك أي التوراة والأنجيل وغيرهما — Jelalooddeen. (Muir, The Coran: Its Composition and Teaching; And The Testimony It Bears To The Holy Scriptures, p. 135; capital emphasis ours)

      Finally:

      (This is the Scripture), i.e. this is the Book that Muhammad (pbuh) is reciting to you; (whereof there is no doubt). There is no doubt that it has come from Me; if you believe in it, I shall guide you, but if you do not believe in it, I will torment you. It is also said that (This is the Scripture) refers to the Guarded Tablet. It is also said that this means: This is the Book that I promised to reveal to you on the Day of the Covenant (yawm al-mithaq). IT IS ALSO SAID (this is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt) means there is no doubt that the description and traits of Muhammad are found IN THE TORAH AND THE GOSPEL. (A guidance unto those who ward off (evil)), means that the Qur’an is an exposition for those who ward off disbelief, associating partners with Allah and indecencies. It is also said that it means: it is a favour to the believers; or that it means it is a mercy unto those who ward off evil from among the community of Muhammad. (Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs)

      Now why in the world would some of the Muslim scholars who knew the Arabic conclude hat the phrase thalika meant that the Torah and the Gospel are in view, not the Quran, if the Arabic was really so clear as to leave no doubt that it is the Quran that the verse is speaking of?

      And here is what I wrote about this verse in a rebuttal where, ironically, I defend James White!

      In light of the foregoing should it surprise the readers to find the Quran saying that there is absolutely no doubt concerning the textual veracity of the Holy Bible?

      That is the Book (Thalika al-kitab), wherein is no doubt, a guidance to the godfearing who believe in the Unseen, and perform the prayer, and expend of that We have provided them; who believe in what has been sent down to thee and what has been sent down before thee, and have faith in the Hereafter; S. 2:2-4 Arberry

      Note what the citation does not say… it does not say that “THIS is the book wherein is no doubt,” which would obviously be referring to the Quran just as in the following examples:

      This is a book (Wa hatha kitabun) We have sent down, blessed, confirming that which is between his/its hands (musaddiqu allathee bayna yadayhi), and for thee to warn the mother of towns and those about her; and those who believe in the world to come believe in it, and watch over their prayers. S. 6:92 our translation

      This is the Book (Wa hatha kitabun) which we have sent down; it is a blessing; follow it then and fear; haply ye may obtain mercy. S. 6:155

      Rather, it says “THAT is the book,” which clearly points to a Scripture other than the Quran. And what other Book could this be if not the Bible, the very Scripture which the Quran repeatedly points to just as we see in the following examples?

      Children of Israel, remember My blessing wherewith I blessed you, and fulfil My covenant and I shall fulfil your covenant; and have awe of Me. And believe in that I have sent down, confirming that which is with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And sell not My signs for a little price; and fear you Me. And do not confound the truth with vanity, and do not conceal the truth wittingly. And perform the prayer, and pay the alms, and bow with those that bow. Will you bid others to piety, and forget yourselves while you recite the Book? Do you not understand? S. 2:40-44

      And when We gave to Moses the Book and the Salvation, that haply you should be guided. S. 2:53

      Not only the choice of the demonstrative pronoun points to another book, but the context of Q. 2:2 actually speaks of two revelations. Verse 4 refers to the one that “has been sent down to thee” (Muhammad), i.e. the Qur’an, and the one that “has been sent down before thee”, i.e. the Bible. “Hatha” (this) refers to something that is near, and “thalika” (that) refers to something that is further away. In the context of the two revelations which are mentioned, “thalika” can only refer to the one that is further away from Muhammad, the one that was sent earlier, i.e. the Bible.

      Thus, the Holy Bible is called “the Book wherein is no doubt”.

      With that said Ken, time for you to repent and put down your incense. 😉

      Liked by 1 person

    • Pauly Wally My Paly Waly!
      April 14, 2017 • 3:47 am
      Brother Achilles thanks for t

      You said;

      Thus, the Holy Bible is called “the Book wherein is no doubt”.

      I say;
      That is your wishful thinking. The Quran never said so but the Quran said;

      5:46 And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had
      come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and
      confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to
      those who fear Allah

      The Bible was written by others after Jesus and so it is not what the Quran is referring to.

      Thanks.

      Liked by 2 people

    • LOL get lost Fatty Sam. The Quran never claims the ‘Bible’ is the Word of God. It’s a mish mosh of texts mostly written by unknown authors. You’re using Word gymnastics like a true Christian.

      Liked by 1 person

    • This guy’s logic is pretty messed up. He quoted some scholars and but emphasize the discussion but NOT THE ACTUAL CONCLUSION.

      Below is a similar sentence to what he’s saying:
      “As of 2017, SOME PEOPLE THINK THE WORLD IS FLAT AND VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM, but it’s clear that they know absolutely nothing and most people are logical and could actually see the clear evidences, so the world is clearly spherical, and vaccines don’t cause autism.”

      See how ridiculous that looks? Because that’s what he’s doing.

      Also, it’s as if this guy doesn’t actually know how the Quran was actually revealed. “This is the book.” would only make sense if a book was actually manifested on Earth and given to the Prophet (PBUH). But as it is being revealed to the Prophet (PBUH), THE ONLY “BOOK” FORM OF THE QURAN WAS IN HEAVEN. So of course it was referred to with “that”.

      Also, when one opens the book in front of you, and one recites the words of the Quran, it is Allah communicating DIRECTLY to your soul. Would He refer to the book in front of you as a “this”? No of course not.

      A “this” would make sense if it was a marketer on TV selling a book, where he holds up a book and says “Buy THIS book now!”.

      But no, you ALREADY have the book, so Allah SWT uses “that”. As in “THAT book you are right now reading”.

      And Allah knows best.

      “Indeed, those who disbelieve – it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them – they will not believe.” Q 2:6.

      Like

  4. @ Sam: The immediate context actually refutes your claim. Verse [2:4] addresses Muhammad (pbuh) and explains that the guidance referred to in [2:2] is accepted by his followers. Are you a follower of Muhammad? I think not. Q.E.D.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. And so, (it is not realized), the Word of Allah can be as primarily uttered through the perfectly expressive flesh of the burgeoning multiplicity of reciters the cognitively covert Islamic Incarnation(s)!- and ad infinitum, you might say. But if not then successive post primal imitations-but then,of course, not perfect. Perhaps the theological blogging of immaculate bestowals might save their sorry day?

    Like

  6. “Q. 2:2 says nothing about the Quran since it speaks of that (thalika) book which, as the immediate context shows, is the book of the Jews and Christians. If this was referring to the Quran then it would have used hatha, not thalika”
    What are you bluffing , Sam with your “brother” Ken?
    Thalik ذلك & hatha هذا are mutual in Arabic, which is something depends on the context. All verses after the separate letters in Quran by the most are talking about Quran. This’s a style to show the greatness of Quran. In Arabic. There’s a difference when I say This is a book or That is a book. The last one is to show the greatness. Surah 12 or Surah 32 show the same style, and many other Suras. This has been said by Ibn Abbas, Ibn Jurayj, Al Suddi, Muqatil, Zaid ibn Aslam, and Saeed ibn Jubair, which means that you have no case, Sam.
    I mean I would take any argument seriously to refute it except the linguistic argument since Quran is a linguistic miracle.

    “Sir William Muir cites Jalaludeen”
    If he meant Jalaluddin Al suyuti, then he’s wrong.

    Finally, I’m telling you that we believe in the Torah and the Gospel with no doubt as. Also, they are books from Allah with no doubt, and each statement in them as Allah has revealed it is truth with no doubt. How on earth does this have anything to do with your Biblical canon right now? Quran has its own defiention of what the Torah and Injeel are.

    Liked by 3 people

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