Condemning the Racist Abuse Adnan Rashid Suffered on Pfander’s After Debate Discussion with Lizzie Schofield

Muslim apologist Ustadh Adnan Rashid  had a debate with a lady who works for Jay Smith’s Pfander Centre for Apologetics, Elizabeth Lizzie Schofield. The debate was on divorce in Islam. Strangely enough Pfander Films do not have the debate video uploaded as I write but they did upload a video entitled After Debate Discussion. I’m not entirely sure why they have not uploaded footage of the debate – one would think the debate footage would be the primary focus. SC Dawah Channel (an excellent and recommended resource for Speakers Corner video  footage) has the entire debate uploaded here: part 1 and part 2.

I recommend you watch the actual debate rather than The After Debate Discussion which was haphazard and was a typical SC dialogue where both sides angled for opportunities to talk. Again, I am a little miffed to see the actual debate has not been posted (yet?) by Jay Smith’s team especially considering Adnan did a good job in clarifying the misunderstanding on the part of Pfander and Lizzie Schofield.

Nevertheless, the After Debate Discussion gave us another insight into the nature of a noxious element of those who follow Pfander Films. The comments on the video were replete with racist abuse and even included a veiled threat towards Muslims.

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Notice the 21 likes! Calling Muslims savages is a way of saying Muslims are animal-like. Using the word “import” also dehumanizes Muslims alongside otherizing Muslims as folks who are not part of Western society when in reality the majority of Muslims in the West are born in the West. Racists say the same thing about Afro-Caribbean people.


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More de-humanizing and racist abuse!

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Again likening Muslims to animals. This time this person uses the Bible support his hateful views on Muslims! More equating Muslims to animals. More sentiment suggesting Muslims don’t belong in London (and the West in general).  This idea that all Muslims pitched up in the West from a dessert is ridiculous. I wonder if this person in Texas (?) knows Jesus (p) is a Middle Easterner.

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This idea of Muslims following the devil is ridiculous but it aids propaganda in setting up a hierarchy of human value. Of course if you believe a group is satanic then you’re going to be less inclined to care when you read about a bunch of them getting blown up in the news as collateral damage or the target of terrorist thugs. Or even when a group of them drown in the sea while trying to flee war, oppressive regimes and/or economic hardships. On a personal level this attitude hinders one from having a non-pejorative relationship with Muslims in daily life.

What I always find baffling with this accusation from the “Christian” camp is how it opens a Christian up to serious questioning of their own faith tradition and community. For instance, Islam’s zero-tolerance stance on alcohol is better than Christianity’s you-can-drink-as-long-as-you-don’t get-drunk stance; we now know even moderate intake of alcohol is linked to some cancers and alcohol by its very nature is so difficult to control in order to avoid a level of tipsiness which lowers one’s inhibitions (leading to anti-social behaviour or speech) and with each sip it’s incrementally more difficult to avoid complete drunkenness . The question here for a Christian with such a depraved view of Muslims is why are Muslims who you believe to be led by the devil following a religion which has better teachings on alcohol than Christian? It’s a difficult question for the Christian. A related question could be why do polls show Muslims to be better disciplined sexually than Christians if Muslims are following the devil?

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This is an old form of racism: against ethnicity or in this case nationality. Adnan, if I’m not mistaken is of Pakistani origin. This sentiment was clearly not isolated to one individual – 4 likes!

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Notice all the likes again! Pfander Ministries have previous form here. This is not the first time where one of their viewers expressed views in wanting to boot Muslims out of Europe.  This type of rhetoric was experienced by Jews and Irish –  in the late nineteenth century political powers in Britain tapped into the growing rhetoric against Jews and Irish leading to a restrictive Aliens Bill in 1904 (See Owen Jones’ Book Chavs). Right wing rhetoric can influence politics – this is one of the reasons why Islamophobes are so vocal. Again we are talking about a new form of racism and discrimination which has to be given a name, the word “Islamophobia” is at the head of the queue right now.

I cannot stress enough how the inertia of Muslims in Britain, Germany, France and Scandanavian countries will allow an a relatively unchecked platform for Islamophobes to influence political powers. Muslims need to get politically active – the easiest way to do this is to raise awareness of issues and talk about this type of stuff.  Chatham House’ssurvey publicised what every reasonably thoughtful person would imagine: those more educated and those who have interactions with Muslims in real life are less likely to hold Islamophobic views. As Muslims we need to start talking about these issues with Non-Muslim friends and colleagues – folks who would be more trusting of you than an anti-Muslim/Islam hate preacher on the internet. Don’t allow hate preachers to cloud your friends’ minds with anti-Muslim/Islam prejudice.

Sadly a lot of Muslims have and continue to accept this prejudice against them as something that is part and parcel of living in a Western society. This should not be the case. If Jewish, Irish, Black and LGBT  movements were able to impact discrimination and hatred towards their respective people Muslims can work towards this reality with respect to Islamophobia. Working together with Non-Muslims to raise awareness of Islamophobia unashamedly is key. All this right wing talk about Islamophobia being a buzzword of Political Correctness which delimits boundaries of criticism of Islam is red herring. Smart people should be able to see through it. Anti-Judaism polemics in the West would have contributed to Anti-Semitism: the classic example being  that of Jews having a less loving idea of God (thus in turn planting seeds in the minds of distrusting people in Christian Europe of Jews being less loving which ultimately watered the ground for Anti-Semitic blood libels to spread in Europe – even in Norwich!

How do folks ameliorate Christian attitudes towards Muslims?

An easy step is to call out the hate-preachers within the Christian community.  Sure, I am aware of intimidation tactics Pfander have used in the past but Muslims need to be willing to report abuse and Islamophobia to the authorities without trepidation. Pfander Centre have been propagating anti-Muslim rhetoric and they have been proscribed by universities and other forums according to Lizzie Schofield forIslamophobia whilst simultaneously considered to be extreme by other Christians. As you can see, there’s already a significant and politically active number of Non-Muslims who are speaking out against Islamophobia and what they deem to be toxic elements within Christian preaching communities. These are folks Muslims can join hands with.

Note: I may not have time to do a separate post on what was Jay Smith’s and Dave’s distasteful use of purported European anti-Muslim immigrant sentiment via the Chatham House survey, a video which manage to evoke at least one viewer to spew the old kick-Muslims-out rhetoric. Here’s a blog I wrote on why that survey cannot be used by Islamophobes in the way they may think they can use it.

Categories: Islam

14 replies

  1. Dont get frighten its just their sh8t in their head coming out… and you have to understand some poeple come to these debates at the front of the camera to “win” and show off it for their chrisitans guys no matter how much what they are saying is nonsense. if this Lizze keeps talking while Adnan corrected her by the Hadith and they keep doing it again and again contradicting her self. whats the point?

    i dont know if you have to debate with idiots… maybe it will do some good when poeple watching it.. but still jzakalihu khiran brothers


  2. “The question here for a Christian with such a depraved view of Muslims is why are Muslims who you believe to be led by the devil following a religion which has better teachings on alcohol than Christian?”

    It doesn’t. Why would Christians accept your assumption?

    BTW, you really do need to spend time with Christians Yahya, then you might realise that many Christians don’t drink alcohol by choice or theological persuasion. By isolating yourself to internet polemics you do yourself a disservice.


    • Walk in to any bar on any given night and the majority of patrons are Christian. Alchohol sales in Christian countries are always the highest. Personally, I once had a Christian friend who told me that he practices his religion every time he goes to the bar to drink wine and beer. Clearly, he was theological persuaded of this by such Christian teachings on Alchohol as these to name a few:

      * So go ahead. Eat your food with joy, and drink your wine with a happy heart, for God approves of this! -Ecc. 9:7

      * Give beer to people who are dying and wine to those who are sad. Let them drink and forget their need and remember their misery no more. -Prov. 31:3

      * You give us wine that makes happy hearts- Psalm 104

      Those Christians who choose not to drink do so inspite of such Biblical teachings as those above.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Paulus, I am not saying all Christians drink alcohol. Some Muslims drink alcohol.

      I’m talking about the fact Christianity allows alcohol consumption as long as one does not get drunk. Islam has a better stance on alcohol by completely forbidding it. That’s my point.


      Liked by 2 people

    • I get it, but that stance is not “better”. You keep saying this but why should a Christian agree?


    • “Walk in to any bar on any given night and the majority of patrons are Christian. Alchohol sales in Christian countries are always the highest.”

      Now who is being racist? Can you prove any of this? What exactly is a “Christian country”? I don’t know of a single one!

      Just for your information- as a response to your anecdotal evidence of one person from which you draw outrageously racist conclusions- there are entire denominations within the Christian faith that do not drink alcohol on theological grounds.

      “Christian views on alcohol are varied. Throughout the first 1,800 years of church history, Christians generally consumed alcoholic beverages as a common part of everyday life and used “the fruit of the vine”[1] in their central rite—the Eucharist or Lord’s Supper.[2][3] They held that both the Bible and Christian tradition taught that alcohol is a gift from God that makes life more joyous, but that over-indulgence leading to drunkenness is sinful or at least a vice.[4][5]
      In the mid-19th century, some Protestant Christians moved from a position of allowing moderate use of alcohol (sometimes called moderationism) to either deciding that not imbibing was wisest in the present circumstances (abstentionism) or prohibiting all ordinary consumption of alcohol because it was believed to be a sin (prohibitionism).[6] Many Protestant churches, particularly Methodists and Evangelical groups, advocated abstentionism and were early leaders in the temperance movement of the 19th and 20th centuries.”

      You quote mine a few random texts, but get outraged when other do the same with the Koran and ahadith?

      Quran 16.67 “And of the fruits of the date palms and the grapes, you obtain alcoholic drinks and goods. Verily in that is a sign for a people who use their understanding.”

      Muslim 3753 “We were with the prophet of Allah and he was thirsty. And a man said: ‘O prophet of Allah, do you want to drink wine?’ Prophet of Allah said: ‘Yes’. The man went to get the wine. The prophet of Allah said: ‘Make it intoxicated’. And he drank.”

      As you say, “Those [Muslims] who choose not to drink do so inspite of such [Islamic] teachings as those above.”

      And since you like anecdotal evidence, here is mine- when I lived in the largest Muslim majority nation in the world, alcohol was consumed en-mass by muslims. Not publically, because we all know how that works, but privately and in secret it happened all the time. There was an entire black market dedicated to the stuff. Because of the Islamic legalistic sin framework of public=bad and private=acceptable, heaps and heaps of muslims would drink the stuff secretly. Not dissimilar to halala marriage being acceptable if the conditions are not verbally spoken. Legalistic religion breeds such ways to skirt around the laws.


    • Paulus,
      I concede the point that there are some Christians and Christian groups that abstain or drink in moderation. I did not mean to imply otherwise.

      I don’t come to racist conclusions in my anecdotal example, my Christian friend told me very clearly that drinking is how he practices his faith, and he even PROUDLY quoted a verse from the Bible by memory to prove that drinking is condoned in Christianity.

      As usual you twist Islamic teachings to make your point :

      Qur’an 16:67. Yusuf Ali translates the verse as referring to “wholesome drink.” The Arabic word in the verse is NOT “Alcohol.” But even if it is translated as “intoxicant” or “strong drink” The verse is simply lists some of Allah’s signs, which the Mushrikun used to take advantage of before it was prohibited by Allah, while in no way does it condone drinking alcoholic beverages.

      Clearly, Hadith 3753 says NOTHING about drinking alchohol and this is yet another Missionary LIE against Islam. Sahih Muslim covers a different topic altogether. This is the real hadith:

      Mujahid said to Tiwus: Come along with me to Ibn Rafi b. Khadij in order to listen from him the hadith transmitted on the authority of his father (pertaining to the renting of land) from Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him). He (Tawus) scolded him and said: By Allah, it I were to know that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) had forbidden it, I would have never done it. But it has been narrated to me by one who has better knowledge of it amongst them (and he meant Ibn ‘Abbas) that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: It is better if a person lends, his land to his brother (for cultivation) than that he gets recognised rent on it.

      In Islam, anything intoxicating is khamr and all khamr is haraam/not permissible.

      You said “Legalistic religion breeds such ways to skirt around the laws.” No one ever said that all Muslims are perfect. Do some Muslims drink yes of course.
      But at least in Islam there are laws which outline the boundaries of moral behavior. Whereas, in Christianity the law has been thrown out entirely and anything goes (including drinking public) as my own anecdotal evidence makes very clear.


  3. Pfander is clearly a hate group, as evidenced by their rhetoric and they type of racist, bigoted, Islamophobic,supporters they attract.

    Yahya is right in that the only way to oppose such hate is for Muslims to get politically active, and affect change through the political process. Building allies within other groups and communities that are sympathetic to the same goals is a key.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Thanks to those Non-Muslims who are speaking out against Islamophobia and what they deem to be toxic elements within Christian preaching communities. We need more of such people to stand up and do the right thing, as this will also encourage more Muslims to stand up when they know that they have support and backing of good and decent people within their own communities.

      Eventually the embarrassment of Islamophobia will be a thing of the past, and will be looked down upon with disgust and labeled as the ignorance and hate that it is. History will judge today’s Islamophobes as the small minded, racist bigots of their day. We just have to keep working towards making that day a reality soon.

      Liked by 2 people

  4. “This idea of Muslims following the devil is ridiculous but it aids propaganda in setting up a hierarchy of human value. Of course if you believe a group is satanic then you’re going to be less inclined to care…”

    I was (maybe just a little bit) surprised to hear JD Hall, supposedly a reasonable and moderate voice, rebuke David Wood for being too “caustic” then state that he too believes Islam is satanic.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. So calling Muslims beasts and savages is racist.
    What about calling Muslims worse than beasts and savages?



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