Calling out the British Foreign Office to show *genuine* inclusion for Islamic marriage

I am not holding my breath on this one!


Advertisements


Categories: Homosexuality, Islam, Life in the West, paul williams

73 replies

  1. Your tweet doesn’t call upon the Foreign Office to support Islamic marriage, it criticises support for same-sex rights.

    Like

    • So called “same sex marriage” is not marriage at all; it an abomination; a sin. and anyway, the “B” in LGBT has to have the right to marry 2 other people, one from same sex and one from opposite sex, at the same time period. That is the logical outcome of what their whole agenda means, which will also result in polygamy. People are already wanting the right to polygamy and a host of other deviant things.

      http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/so-called-same-sex-marriage

      Like

    • Tell me Ken, who is hurt by same-sex marriage? Certainly not the couple who get married. Not you, not I, but that misses the point. The Foreign Office tweet doesn’t make any reference to marriage. It refers to the right to express their love, without persecution. People can and do DIE for being homosexual, or trans, or bi – shall we tolerate that?

      Like

    • they hurt themselves. They hurt any children they adopt. They hurt society at large because it is lie that is a good thing; and liberals and atheists like you are unloving and supporting them in their self-abuse. I am not advocating violence at all.

      ok, you are right that the Foreign Office tweet was not about marriage, but it certainly entails that.

      expressing homosexual love in public is disgusting and harmful to society and harmful to children who may see it. But in now way am I endorsing violence of bullying against people.

      Like

    • By encouraging homosexuals to consider themselves disgusting you’re hurting them, not helping them. The rhetoric you use IS a form of bullying and historically it has been used to justify oppression and violence upon them. Why not simply leave them alone?

      Like

    • They can do what they to in the privacy of their homes. They are the ones who bring their disgusting sin out into the public and they are ones that force the rest of us to accept their sin as ok. It is not ok and it is not normal. They are the ones who are bring government into the bedroom to approve of a sickness and sin. This is not a justification for violence at all. You are wrong. They need compassion and the gospel.

      1 Corinthians 6:9-11

      Like

    • They want the right to exist without being forced to deny who they are to satisfy a faith that demeans and degrades their very existence. Whether you care to acknowledge it or not, this has been, and remains, used to justify violence against them.

      I am *not* saying that you are inciting violence, but whilst you rally against the homosexual lifestyle, there remain parts of the world where being homosexual is enough to be put to death. This is why Pride is such a big deal now – to combat the attitudes that lead to denial of rights and even death.

      Like

    • So basically, impose one’s faith upon others, even non-believers, in the name of ‘helping’ them.

      Like

    • No; they are the ones who forced things – some of them sued photographers, bakers, florists and destroyed their lives; whereas they could have just gone to another different baker or photographer or florist. That was pure evil and injustice done to those bakers, florists and photographers. They force people to participate and celebrate their sin.

      Like

    • Why should public businesses be exempt from law and instead be allowed to discriminate?

      Like

    • they can buy a plain cake if they want; the issue is that the baker should not be forced to put 2 plasic men together and write “Jim and Larry, together love forever”, etc. or go to the so called wedding. Same for photography – requires one to go to the ceremony; same for florists – to go to the ceremony setting and set up the floral arrangement, etc. If they just buy flowers, no questions asked, and set it up themselves, no problem, but they were forcing the businesses to participate and celebrate their sins.

      So, it is not unfair discrimination.

      Like

    • A business is not a religious institution. We have had this discussion before. You open the door to discrimination like this and you might as well let any business owner use whatever criteria they want to discriminate against whomever they want.

      Like

  2. “trans-genderism” is a mental and emotional illness and rebellion against the way God created them. They need psychological counseling, not hormones or plastic surgery or approval.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Ken Temple

      I support you here on all that you said against LGBT except that polygamy is accepted in the Bible and therefore to you as a Christian, the God of the Bible is Jesus Christ, so he allowed Moses, David, Solomon etc. to marry more than one.

      There are more women who will like to marry married men because it is difficult for them to get husbands. There are widows with children to cater. It is difficult to get men to marry them and so, if a man will marry them and love them sincerely, that will be good, instead of almost all the Christian clergy, politicians, congregation, adherents etc. like Pastor Jimmy Swaggart, The Church Fathers, Jerry Lee Long, Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Bill Cosby, Bill O’Reilly, Anthony Weiner, Mark Sanford, Elliot Spitzer etc. having sex with prostitutes and non prostitutes as well.

      The US politicians like Mark Sanford, Bill Clinton, Elliot Spitzer, Anthony Weiner etc. will support a law against having more than one wife but they will go and be having sex with more than one wife. Which is better? To marry a wife and cater for her or to have sex with her and not marry her?

      Thanks

      Liked by 1 person

    • When you write “the Church fathers” – I think you mean SOME modern Roman Catholic priests, who have been convicted of child molestation, etc.

      “The Church Fathers” sounds like the early church fathers in second, third, fourth and fifth centuries, like Clement, Ignatius, Irenaeus, Augustine, Athanasius, and you don’t mean them.

      “Jerry Lee Long” – I think you mean “bishop Eddie Long”

      the charges against Bill O’Reilly are accusations and not proven, but the others are either convicted or admitted it; and yes, they are bad examples of bad behavior, for sure.

      Like

    • ken failed to address this :

      quote :
      Moses already had a wife, Zipporah, the daughter of a Midianite
      leader, whom he had married during his forty years in exile
      before the exodus. But in Numbers 12, after the exodus, and as we
      saw earlier, Moses took a second wife, a Cushite (Ethiopian)
      woman. Aaron and Miriam opposed Moses when he took this second
      wife. But Yahweh did not. Yahweh defended Moses, and
      punished Miriam (though not Aaron) for challenging Moses. I’d
      say that constitutes Yahweh’s express approval. But Copan never
      even mentions that Moses had two wives

      end quote


      The text of Genesis clearly shows that Rachel and Leah were in competition and jealous of one another and it shows the negative effects of polygamy. It records the sins and jealousies of them with their maid-servants / concubines. It is negative”

      how does being jealous mean that yhwh thought that polygamy was wrong and a sin and that one needed to repent because of polygamy? repentance is for jealousy, not polygamy.

      Like

    • apparently, Zipporah, Moses’ first wife, had passed away by that time, and so Moses married again, a Cushite woman (Ethiopian or Sudanese).

      Like

    • ““trans-genderism” is a mental and emotional illness and rebellion against the way God created them. They need psychological counseling, not hormones or plastic surgery or approval.”

      I don’t think you are qualified to make judgement like this. “Psychological counseling” by “born again” lunatics only, I suppose?

      Like

    • Any proof that Zipporah had died by the time Moses (as) married the second ?

      Like

    • no; no definite proof that I know of; but she is not mentioned, so it is usually assumed that she had passed away. But, God did allow polygamy, as we see in Jacob’s life earlier in Genesis; and the Genesis text shows that it was a negative thing, because they were constantly in rivalry and competition and jealousy, etc. to see who could bear the most children for Jacob, even giving their maid-servants to Jacob in their competition.

      Like

    • Ken Temple

      July 10, 2017 • 2:16 pm

      no; no definite proof that I know of; but she is not mentioned, so it is usually assumed that she had passed away. But, God did allow polygamy, as we see in Jacob’s life earlier in Genesis; and the Genesis text shows that it was a negative thing, because they were constantly in rivalry and competition and jealousy, etc. to see who could bear the most children for Jacob, even giving their maid-servants to Jacob in their competition.

      I say;
      Was it not more negative when Christians with one wife goes not sleeping and having sex with prostitutes, girls, women, men, children, their daughters etc.?
      Who told you that marrying one wife is not a negative thing? When Bill Clinton, Bill O’Reilly, Bill Cosby, Pastor Jimmy Swaggart, Pastor/Bishop Eddie Lee Long, Mark Sanford, Anthony Weiner, Elliot Spitzer etc. who are Christian law makers with one wives but going on and sleeping with other women.

      Hagar was not jealous of Sarah. Jealousy happens also in situations where there is no polygamy. Jealousy still happens in marrying one wife, where either the wife or the husband is jealous with the other. Does that make marrying one wife also a sin?

      Yes, there is jealousy in single marriage as well. Senator John Mccain was jealous of his first wife because of her old age and he went on to marry his younger wife. Poligamy will allow him to keep his first wife and marry a second one and cater for all of them, rather than ditching his first wife.

      Thanks.

      Like

    • correction.

      I mean “goes on sleeping”

      Like

    • Ken says “no; no definite proof that I know of; but she is not mentioned, so it is usually assumed that she had passed away.”

      ……………………………….

      If in fact, the law of Moses(as) had discouraged polygamy or considered polygamy as adultery, then surely the death of Zipporah would have to be mentioned before Moses(as) married the second.

      Like

    • Ken, what are you talking about ?
      قدر =/= جبر

      Like

  3. If polygamy was God’s ideal, why did God not make Adam and Eve, and Susan and Brittany and Lauren . . . ?

    Why was it only one man and one woman ? (Adam and Eve)

    yes, God allowed polygamy later, but it was never approved of by God.

    Like

    • Psalms 45:9 “Daughters of kings are among your honored women; at your right hand is the royal bride in gold of Ophir.”

      SoS 6:8 “Sixty queens there may be, and eighty concubines, and virgins beyond number;”

      2 Sam 12:8 “I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more.”

      Your argument about God creating only Adam and Eve and no other wife is a stretch. The above mentioned verses are quite clear and explicit while you are deriving an argument that is not in the text. One might as well ask if monogamy was the plan why did God decide to form the nation of Israel through FOUR different women? (2 wives and 2 concubines that gave birth to Jacob’s 12 sons).

      Notice in 2 Sam 12:8, the text says that God gave David more than one wife. Clearly the author of this text did not regard polygamy as bad.

      Furthermore, who exactly banned polygamy? The Messiah Jesus? James? Paul? There is NOTHING explicit in the Bible banning this practice.

      If you are sola scriptura, bring your evidence from your scripture if you are truthful.

      The explicit texts show that polygamy is not banned.

      Like

    • Song of Solomon 6:8 – you have to read verse 9 also, in order to understand. He is not approving of polygamy or concubines, he is just saying the reality is that there is a lot of them, “but my dove, my perfect one, is unique” (verse 9) only one woman is meant for him; although the culture had degenerated.

      1 Kings 11:1-13 – clearly the multiplying of wives and concubines was a negative thing; and a violation of Deuteronomy 17:17. “do not multiply wives”

      “God gave” means God allowed it, because He is sovereign, but it was not God’s ideal. The point in that context of 2 Samuel 12 is that Nathan is rebuking David for taking Uriah’s wife, when he already had other wives. “You are the man!” in 2 Sam. 12:7 show the context of rebuking David.

      Like

    • moses wrote the stuff about Adam and eve and according to the Jewish, no other prophet has had rev like moses. How many wives did author of genesis have?

      Like

    • The text of Genesis clearly shows that Rachel and Leah were in competition and jealous of one another and it shows the negative effects of polygamy. It records the sins and jealousies of them with their maid-servants / concubines. It is negative. But God can take a negative thing and turn into a positive thing, as Genesis 50:20 and Romans 8:28-29 shows.

      “you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good.” Genesis 50:20

      Like

    • “If polygamy was God’s ideal, why did God not make Adam and Eve, and Susan and Brittany and Lauren . . . ?”

      so because god did not form other women from Adam ribs implies god was not alright with polygamy?

      “Why was it only one man and one woman ? (Adam and Eve”

      Because there were no other humans?

      Like

    • Deuteronomy 17:17 is actually proof that the Bible endorses polygamy.

      The previous verse says don’t have too many horses and the same verse says don’t have too much gold/silver.

      It’s not about banning polygamy. It’s about not being excessive. (Unless you believe every man should have only one horse).

      As for SoS 6, she was special. But it does not change the fact that more than one wife is involved.

      Also in Psalms 45, there is a clear polygamous situation but there is not even a hint that polygamy is any way negative.

      The king who already has multiple royal wives is now marrying a new queen. This new marriage is lauded not condemned.

      Same with SoS.

      As for jealousy, this is not an argument for prohibiting polygamy. The Bible also shows examples of negative effects of wine. But Christians don’t prohibit wine.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Also about the Biblical account in 2 Samuel, Nathan rebukes the king for adultery not polygamy. The author of this text does not view polygamy as the sin.

      God according to this account says I gave you all this. If you felt this was little I would have given you more.

      How is this not an endorsement of polygamy?

      Liked by 2 people

    • I say;
      Ken, what are you talking about?
      Allow means approve. Don’t you know that? It is again your stubbornness to remain in worshiping a man when you refuse to accept “generate” means “create” and so any generated being like Jesus Christ is not God.

      Proof:

      ————————

      al·low

      əˈlou/Submit

      verb
      1.
      give (someone) permission to do something.
      verb: allow; 3rd peKen Temple

      July 8, 2017 • 8:43 pm

      If polygamy was God’s ideal, why did God not make Adam and Eve, and Susan and Brittany and Lauren . . . ?

      Why was it only one man and one woman ? (Adam and Eve)

      yes, God allowed polygamy later, but it was never approved of by God
      rson present: allows; past tense: allowed; past participle: allowed; gerund or present participle: allowing
      “the dissident was allowed to leave the country”
      synonyms: permit, let, authorize, give permission for, give authorization for, sanction, license, enable, entitle; consent to, assent to, give one’s consent to/for, give one’s assent to/for, give one’s blessing to/for, give the nod to, acquiesce to, agree to, approve; tolerate, brook; informal give the go-ahead to/for, give the thumbs up to/for, OK, give the OK to/for, give the green light to/for; formal accede to
      “we don’t allow open fires at this campground”
      2.
      permit (someone) to have (something).
      “he was allowed his first sip of Scotch and soda”

      Source: https://www.google.ca/search?q=what+is+allow&rlz=1C1AVFC_enCA749CA749&oq=what+is+allow&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.5588j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

      ————————

      Do you notice “approve” is one of the synonyms of allow?

      Christians will always change words and phrase to support their man worship i.e. “death” does not mean “cease to exist” invented by Dr. James R. White. What ever death means, God does not die. That is what we are talking about and that is what the Bible said and nothing else.

      Thanks..

      Like

    • “to allow” does not mean to approve of. Do you think Allah approves of sin? yet sin happened; so Allah must have allowed it; nothing happens without the permission of Allah – in your view if allow means “to approve of”, then in your Islamic theology, Allah approves of sin, since sin happens.

      Like

    • Ken Temple

      July 9, 2017 • 2:10 pm

      “to allow” does not mean to approve of. Do you think Allah approves of sin? yet sin happened; so Allah must have allowed it; nothing happens without the permission of Allah – in your view if allow means “to approve of”, then in your Islamic theology, Allah approves of sin, since sin happens.

      I say;
      I submitted a proof from dictionary with a link to the source that clearly shows “approve” as one of the synonyms of “allow” like I did when I clearly showed you that “generate” in the dictionary means “to create” but you refused to accept without bringing your proof to show otherwise.

      Dictionary defines the words we use to speak in our day to day conversations. If Christians will always change or disallow or disapprove it, that is unfortunate. It is clearly the denial of truth from Christians to use word gymnastics to worship a man.

      God blessed Ishmael and Isaac and did not rebuke Abraham for marrying their mothers, but God always rebukes sins committed by anyone.

      God never said “marry only one wife” in the Bible but God clearly said He(God) is one, only and alone to be worshiped.to show the clarity of God when He means business. God always makes it clear when He means business.

      “there is no one like Yahweh our God.” Exodus 8:10
      “Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him.” Deuteronomy 4:35
      “Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.” Deuteronomy 4:39
      “See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me” Deuteronomy 32:39
      “Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!” Deuteronomy 6:4
      “You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You” 2 Samuel 7:22
      “For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?” 2 Samuel 22:32
      “Yahweh is God; there is no one else.” 1 Kings 8:60
      “You are the God, You alone [bad], of all the kingdoms of the earth.” 2 Kings 19:15
      “O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You” 1 Chronicles 17:20
      “You alone [bad] are Yahweh.” Nehemiah 9:6
      “For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God” Psalm 18:31
      “You alone [bad], Lord, are God.” Isaiah 37:20
      “Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.” Isaiah 43:10

      Thanks.

      Like

    • So why does Allah approve of sin, since you think allow/permit means to approve of?

      Dictionary definition is different that the theological definition. Sometimes allow does mean to approve of; but other times it does not mean to approve of; it depends on the context.

      Like

    • Ken Temple

      July 10, 2017 • 2:30 am

      So why does Allah ap.prove of sin, since you think allow/permit means to approve of?

      Dictionary definition is different that the theological definition. Sometimes allow does mean to approve of; but other times it does not mean to approve of; it depends on the context.

      I say;
      When someone sins, it is that person who sins that allowed/approve of the sin to happen and not God. Because of the free will, choice and test that we have on this earth. Yes, God can prevent the sin but most of the times He will not do anything because it is test for us here on earth. What He(God) does is to warn us CLEARLY not to do the sin. If we do then we allowed that sin to happen and not God. If we can decided to disallow that sin to happen and we allow/approve it, then it is we who allowed that sin to happen and not God. If God can stop anything from happening, it does not mean He allow sins to happen when we(humans) can disallow sins from happening.

      Can’t we disallow sins from happening? Yes, we can. If we do the sin, din’t we allow the sin to happen? So, we are responsible for allowing our sins to happen and not God. May God protect us from satan and sins. Ameen.

      When Donald Trump was kissing married women and more than 80% of Evangelical Christians ignored that sin and voted for him, was Donald Trump and the Evangelical Christians allowing that sin of Trump to be approved by voting for him but not God.

      It was Pastor/Bishop Eddie Lee Long, Jimmy Swaggart, Bill Clinton, Bill Cosby, Bill O’Reily etc. that allow their illegal sex sin to happen and not God. It is test here on this world but these Christians and many of their counterparts have already failed. Well they will not be punished because Jesus Christ had already paid and died for their sins. That’s why you will find Christians doing sins left and right knowing Jesus had already paid for their sins.

      I am glad, you know agree sometimes, “allow” means “approve”. In this case God did not allow/approve any sin. God will not allow/approve His prophet to sin. He will rebuke them when they are mistaken.

      God blessed both Ishmael and Isaac and call each of them as son of Abraham. God called both their mothers as Abraham’s wives. David, Solomon, Moses etc. and most prophets of God had more than one wives. God will not allow/approve his prophet to be sinning all the time if marrying more than one wife is a sin. God never said “marry only one wife” as He clearly said “Yahweh is the one and only God” and “no one else”, “nothing besides Him(God).

      Thanks.

      Liked by 1 person

    • So, we are responsible for allowing our sins to happen and not God.

      I think you need go back to school and study the Sovereignty of Allah in Islam, as you don’t seem to be up on that part of the theology of Islam – “nothing happens without Allah’s permission” is basic to Islamic theology of Qadar – قدر, Qesmat قسمت , Jabr جیر , etc.

      Like

    • typo; should have been جبر Jabr.

      Like

    • Ken Temple

      July 10, 2017 • 2:20 pm

      So, we are responsible for allowing our sins to happen and not God.

      I think you need go back to school and study the Sovereignty of Allah in Islam, as you don’t seem to be up on that part of the theology of Islam – “nothing happens without Allah’s permission” is basic to Islamic theology of Qadar – قدر, Qesmat قسمت , Jabr جیر , etc.

      I say;
      I am always in school i.e. learning and researching. I am currently at school upgrading my professional skills.

      I schooled you here Ken, but you refused to acknowledge. I said, yes God can prevent sin and He even said in the Quran that, if He wills, all of us would have been worshiping him but He gave us choice, freewill, knowledge, brain, intellect, logic, truth etc. to be obedient to Him.

      We already have other creatures like angels who who do not have freewill and so we have freewill and can choose to obey and disobey God. He has sent prophets and scriptures to guide us to follow the truth and to obey Him and that will send us close to Him.

      Rejecting His guidance and instead following one’s own desires has a great consequences of hell fire. That is were we are responsible for allowing/approving of our own sins and not God.

      When Donald Trump was disobeying God and kissing married women and more than 80% of the Evangelical Christians voting for him and allowing/approving his sins, was it not them allowing/approving his sins but God? No. God did not allow/approve of such sins.

      Muslims will not vote for anyone who comes out publicly and boast of kissing married women. Even if he is a Muslim, they will vote for a Christian who conduct himself well. Indonesian Muslims have been voting for Christian politicians with good conducts against Muslims.

      But the wicked Christians will always vote for a bad Christian like Donald Trump and will never ever vote for a good Muslim. I think that stance is evil.

      Thanks.

      Like

    • “Intellect” – you don’t seem to be up on that part of the theology of Islam – “nothing happens without Allah’s permission” is basic to Islamic theology of Qadar – قدر, Qesmat قسمت , Jabr جبر

      Like

    • ken, i don’t get what you mean by god allowing something.

      god told the hebrews that idolatry, prostitution, homosexuality, david wood cross dressing, etc was a crime.

      your mate mad man wrote :

      “also teaches that the polygamist commits adultery concomitant with his first act of lusting after his second wife”

      but if god has told the jews about lust and other things, how is it possible he allows it( knowing FULL well it is lust )and says NOT one word to forbid the practice or call it SINFUL like he did when he mentioned idolatry, homosexuality, brother sister marriage etc?

      you are telling everyone that god ALLOWED his beloved REPRESENTATIVES to get away WITH SINFUL crimes.

      Like

    • ken, i don’t get what you mean by god allowing something.

      Mr. Heathcliff (a very British sounding name) – it is basic Islamic theology, that some of the other Muslims can attest to; but you seem like “Intellect” – you don’t know your Islamic theology.

      “Intellect” – you don’t seem to be up on that part of the theology of Islam – “nothing happens without Allah’s permission” is basic to Islamic theology of Qadar – قدر, Qesmat قسمت , Jabr جبر

      Like

    • Ken Temple

      July 12, 2017 • 2:35 pm

      ken, i don’t get what you mean by god allowing something.

      Mr. Heathcliff (a very British sounding name) – it is basic Islamic theology, that some of the other Muslims can attest to; but you seem like “Intellect” – you don’t know your Islamic theology.

      “Intellect” – you don’t seem to be up on that part of the theology of Islam – “nothing happens without Allah’s permission” is basic to Islamic theology of Qadar – قدر, Qesmat قسمت , Jabr ج

      I say;

      Qadr means Allah knows what we are going to do because of His enormous knowledge. Allah does not force or permit us to choose our choice but our freewill does that.That is why there is a heaven and humans but not cows. Allah’s permission for our choice is a test to us and not endorsement/allowing/approving our sins.

      Allah permits us to choose but He does not allow/approve/permit our sins. We allow/choose/permit/approve our sins and not God.

      You refuse to accept that, human beings have permission too, through their freewill, choice and desires. This world is a test, so during test the invigilator will permit the candidate to choose wrong or bad answer. That permission does not mean it is the invigilator forced the candidate to choose the answer he desires.

      In the exam hall, our teachers are mostly invigilators. They knew the serious students who will pass and the knew the lazy students who will fail. They will permit any canditate to choose his/her answer because it is exams.

      These teacher/invigilators have provided the students with guidance, books, knowledge, truth, intellect and logic so that they can pass the exams and become good professionals.

      Because the teacher/invigilator permits a candidate to choose a wrong answer and failed, you hold the teacher/invigilator responsible and not the lazy chap who did not study and use his brain?

      Any rational human being including Christians will say it is the lazy student that permits his failure and not the teacher invigilator.

      That is how Qadr works. We are in this world for test/obedient to God because of our freewill and that is why there is heaven and hell. Blood of Jesus Christ is useless here except God’s Mercy and of cause those who are obedient to God who will repent i.e. quickly realize their mistake or wrong answer and correct it through repentance.
      The blood of your teacher or invigilator will not help you except your brain/intellect to choose the truth and reject falsehood.

      God the Father
      God the Son
      God the Holy Spirit are 3 Gods if you can count.

      Immortal does not mean death. If you choose immortal to mean death i.e. God who is immortal died in any exams, you will fail.

      I am afraid Christians have failed before the exam papers was distributed. May God guide us to the right path. Ameen.

      Thanks.

      Like

    • ” but you seem like “Intellect” – you don’t know your Islamic theology.”

      i want to know if yhwh was allowing lust all that time and blessing israelites who were polygamous/lustful.
      you are a joke . yhwh said he blessed and cursed israelites. many times in ot, jewish get blessing from yhwh. so was yhwh allowing lust? this is a god who gave instructions on what lust is and yet he failed to tell the jews he was allowing lust/polygamy but was not approving of it?

      Like

    • Paul Williams linked to this (on Twitter) that has the 6 pillars of belief for Muslims for children: elementary doctrine that it seems like you guys don’t know.

      6. Belief in Qada قضا and Qadar قدر (Divine will and Decree).
      The sixth Pillar of Iman is the belief in Qada and Qadar.

      Belief in al-qada’ (the Divine will) is certain belief that everything that happens in this universe happens by the will and decree of Allah.
      Belief in al-qadar (the Divine decree). In Saheeh Muslim (8) it is narrated that Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) heard that some people were denying al-qadar. He said: “If I meet these people I will tell them that I have nothing to do with them and they have nothing to do with me. By the One by Whom ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar swore, if one of them had gold equivalent to Mount Uhud and he spent it, Allaah would not accept it from him unless he believed in al-qadar”. The correct belief in al-qadar also involves believing in the following that the individual has free will by means of which he acts.
      That a person’s will and ability do not operate outside the will and decree of Allaah, Who is the One Who has given him that ability and made him able to distinguish (between good and evil) and make his choice, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):
      “And you cannot will unless (it be) that Allaah wills the Lord of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists)”
      [al-Takweer 81:29]
      That al-qadar is Allaah’s plan for His creation. What He has shown us of it, we know and believe in, and what He has hidden from us, we accept and believe in. We do not dispute with Allaah concerning His actions and rulings with our limited minds and comprehension, rather we believe in Allaah’s complete justice and wisdom, and that He is not to be asked about what He does, may He be glorified and praised.

      Like

    • thanks for spreading the truth of Islam Ken

      Like

    • You need to educate Mr. Heathcliff and “intellect” on what Qada قضا and قدر Qadar is. You need to respond to their ignorant posts here, for they are teaching against Islamic doctrine.

      Like

    • I think you should look to your own education about the Bible, Jesus and Islam. You teach falsehoods about all three.

      Like

    • You don’t seek to guide and help your ignorant Muslim brothers? Shame.

      Like

    • Guide yourself. And do not be arrogant.

      Like

    • See Paul Williams Tweet.

      Like

    • ken,

      this is a god who gave instructions on what lust is and yet he failed to tell the jews he was allowing lust/polygamy but was not approving of it?

      Like

  4. so, better to write, “some Roman Catholic priests convicted of child molestation”, NOT “The Church Fathers”. Not accurate and it is confusing.

    Like

    • Ken Temple

      I am not making up things. Everyone knows even today, some Christian priests, especially those that involves in illegal sex are called Fathers. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger or Pope Benedict apologized to the victims of the priests called Fathers.

      “While western churches regard only early teachers of Christianity as Fathers, the Orthodox Church honors as “Fathers” many saints far beyond the early centuries of church history, even to the present”

      Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Fathers

      “What happened to Father Joseph Maskell, the abusive priest from Netflix’s ‘The Keepers’?
      Everything you need to know about the priest linked to the murder of Sister Cathy Cesnik.”

      Source: http://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/reports/a9882211/father-joseph-maskell-netflix-the-keepers-abusive-priest/

      They mostly used Father instead of priest. It is confusion and it is not from me.

      Thanks.

      Like

    • Ken Temple

      New International Version
      He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.

      The above verse does not say “marry only one wife”. And do not accumulate large silver does not say you should have only one silver. It is about excess but not banning more than one wife or more than one silver and gold. That is why in the Bible the prophets of God married more than one wives.

      The Quran on the other hand said “marry only one wife” with conditions before marrying up to 4. It is the same like the above Biblical verse. It did not ban marrying more than one wife but put restrictions and limitations to it.

      Some times, marrying more than one wife is beneficial to women, men, children and to society at large rather than Christian politicians and their clergy involvement in illegal sex without marriage

      .1 Kings 11:1-13:7New International Version (NIV), never said “marry only one wife” The verse is against intermarrying hundreds of wives who worships idols.

      Thanks.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. So the Foreign Office’s position is in favour of incest.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. “The text of Genesis clearly shows that Rachel and Leah were in competition and jealous of one another and it shows the negative effects of polygamy.”

    how does the case of rachel and leah apply to all polygamous marriages in the ot? were there any divorces ? yhwh divorced israel, but did any prophet divorce from his multiple wives?

    ” It records the sins and jealousies of them with their maid-servants / concubines. It is negative. ”

    jeolousies = sin, but no where does the jewish bible say that polygamy = sin. what about women who were not jeoulous and in polygamous marriage?


    But God can take a negative thing and turn into a positive thing…”

    who told you that god said polygamy = negative thing?

    Liked by 2 people

  7. “apparently, Zipporah, Moses’ first wife, had passed away by that time,”

    proof

    Like

  8. The teaching of Jesus is decisive on this. He goes back to God’s purpose in creation.

    He also teaches that the polygamist commits adultery concomitant with his first act of lusting after his second wife. Each new wife is an act of adultery against his first wife.

    Like

    • madmanna

      If that is the case, Jesus’s genealogy comes from sin. His comes from Abraham according to Mathew and Luke. They all have more than one wives. So Jesus came from sin if marrying more than one wives is sin. Besides, you could not provide any proof that says marrying more than one wife is sin.

      Liked by 3 people


    • The teaching of Jesus is decisive on this. He goes back to God’s purpose in creation.”

      the “teachings of jesus” are not relevant when discussing the torah. jesus’ interpretation = RAPE of biblical text. for example. where did yhwh say that DIVORCE = adultery?

      quote :
      But here’s what Gen 2:24 says:
      “Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and clings to
      his wife, and they become one flesh.” This does not say that monogamy
      was “the standard.” It doesn’t say anything about monogamy
      at all. Remember, Copan thinks Genesis was written by Moses—who
      had two wives, and God defended Moses for having the
      second one! Just because only one wife is mentioned in Genesis 2
      doesn’t mean monogamy is being presented as the “standard.”

      After all, every man has to start somewhere! He’s not going to
      “leave his father and mother” every time he marries another
      woman; just the first time.

      “He also teaches that the polygamist commits adultery concomitant with his first act of lusting after his second wife. Each new wife is an act of adultery against his first wife.”

      who said that the polygamist who wants to marry second wife is LUSTING ? where did yhwh say that polygamist who wants to marry second wife is lusting? where did yhwh say POLYGAMY is about lusting?
      are you ACCUSING yhwh of bearing with ADULTERY and lusting you sinful liar?

      Like

  9. you need a smack in your mouth for telling your god about negative effects. Had pastor jimmy swaggart lived in ot days, you would have said about the negative effect of having one wife and how polygamy cures the problem.

    “also teaches that the polygamist commits adultery concomitant with his first act of lusting after his second wife”

    If the woman becomes your wife, what is wrong with lusting? But where is proof that when second wife was taken in ot days, the people done a “check her out”?

    Christians girls bring boy friends at home
    Christian girls open chest
    Christian girls like to be checked out

    Where is proof that ot girls would have been checked out
    ?

    there were systems placed to prevent lust before marriages.

    By your logic Christian girls before they get married get lusted on by their boy friends

    So I echo pals of jebus

    Better not to get married.

    Btw jesus was fully human so what makes you think that he being human wasn’t lusting over women? After all ,he said that human mind thinks fornication and adulteries and since jesus was human then he may have had experiences of Mary Magdalene alone in private in his mind

    You cannot deny this because Jesus was born of a woman

    if god couldn’t prevent Adam from sinning what chance did the human jesus have???

    Like

  10. “no; no definite proof that I know of; but she is not mentioned, so it is usually assumed that she had passed away.”

    “12 Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite. ”

    god gave skin disease because of what miriam said. “for he married a cushite”
    the argument was not about moses first wife but over the cushite ” for she was a cushite”
    there would be no reason to mention the first wife .

    ” But, God did allow polygamy, as we see in Jacob’s life earlier in Genesis; and the Genesis text shows that it was a negative thing,”

    where did god say it was a negative thing? so can i use argument from silence too like you did?


    because they were constantly in rivalry and competition and jealousy, ”

    yet no divorces


    etc. to see who could bear the most children for Jacob, even giving their maid-servants to Jacob in their competition.”

    so what about polygamous marriages which did not involve “competition”

    Like


  11. because they were constantly in rivalry and competition and jealousy, ”

    i read an article that american christians have very high rate of divorce, did ot prophets put you guys to shame by not divorcing?

    Like

Please leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: