James White’s Book on the Trinity Contains “Spin”?

Dr. Dale Tuggy and Corby Amos discuss the Trinitarin spin in Dr. White’s book, “The Forgotten Trinity”:

Video by Br. Yahya Snow.

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Categories: Biblical scholarship, Christianity

Tags: , , , , ,

37 replies

  1. The unbiblical nature of the Doctrine of Trinity, necessitates that any explanation of the doctrine will require “spin,” especially in justifying Trinitarianism in light of more reasonable Biblical interpretations such as Arianism and/or more acceptable Unitarian understandings..

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    • @Ibn Issam, Indeed, couldn’t agree more…

      despite the mistakes and the loopholes this book is a nice attempt though, i mean honestly if you compare it to other books which makes a case for the polytheistic pagan-like doctrine of the Trinity, “Forgotten Trinity” seems a lot better…

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  2. Arianism is polytheism – it postulates that the divine figure of Jesus was created as a kind of demi-god, someone that deserves our worship like god the father. Arianism holds to the divinity of christ and holy spirit – a kind of alternate trinity.

    Either way, there is only one god, yet the bible clearly describes jesus as divine, the orthodox trinity is more likely reading of the text.

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    • I think what Ibn mean by Arianism was the Teachings of the WTS in terms of Christology….Arians and JWs are often confused…

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    • yhwh was a polytheistic god

      you worship a being who is unable to be known unless he is a created being. within yhwh existed created co-eternals united in one being.

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    • Shaad

      What is WTS?

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    • You worship three gods. No one believes your lies anymore. Get lost now kiddo.

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    • Yeah I meant the Watchtower Society…

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    • “….the orthodox trinity is more likely reading of the text”

      Nope

      Liked by 1 person

    • atlas/toni

      Where have I lied?

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    • shaad

      The NT definitely and unequivocally describes jesus accepting worship, his followers bowing before him to give worship, and it describes him in divine language.

      Unitarian christians worship jesus, but they deny he is god – this blasphemy since only god is to be worshiped. Christian sects that have accepted jesus as a divine figure but who describe him as some kind of created god, or elevated human, also commit blasphemy since they posit either more than one god, or an elevated human to a demi-god. None of this is scriptural, nor acceptable to the old or new testaments.

      What you are left with is the athanasian creed as the most rational and logical explanation and exegesis of who jesus was and the nature of god as described in the bible.

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    • “The NT definitely and unequivocally describes jesus accepting worship, his followers bowing before him to give worship, and it describes him in divine language.”

      flesh worshipping pagan scum. you even make his disciples pagan scum. why would they bow and worship before flesh ? that would be idolatry .

      worship
      ˈwəːʃɪp/Submit
      noun
      1.
      the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.

      instead of doing that to invisible being, they doing that to WOUNDED and created flesh, BLASPHEMY

      thomas was the biggest mushrik , he poked jesus and that FEELING of poking him drove him to do shirk. ot clearly says do not let your people tempt you away to prostitute your heart to other gods, it all starts with feeling up wounded gods

      quote

      Moses Commands Obedience
      4 So now, Israel, give heed to the statutes and ordinances that I am teaching you to observe, so that you may live to enter and occupy the land that the Lord, the God of your ancestors, is giving you. 2 You must neither add anything to what I command you nor take away anything from it, but keep the commandments of the Lord your God with which I am charging you. 3 You have seen for yourselves what the Lord did with regard to the Baal of Peor—how the Lord your God destroyed from among you everyone who followed the Baal of Peor, 4 while those of you who held fast to the Lord your God are all alive today.

      5 See, just as the Lord my God has charged me, I now teach you statutes and ordinances for you to observe in the land that you are about to enter and occupy. 6 You must observe them diligently, for this will show your wisdom and discernment to the peoples, who, when they hear all these statutes, will say, “Surely this great nation is a wise and discerning people!” 7 For what other great nation has a god so near to it as the Lord our God is whenever we call to him? 8 And what other great nation has statutes and ordinances as just as this entire law that I am setting before you today?

      9 But take care and watch yourselves closely, so as neither to forget the things that your eyes have seen nor to let them slip from your mind all the days of your life; make them known to your children and your children’s children— 10 how you once stood before the Lord your God at Horeb, when the Lord said to me, “Assemble the people for me, and I will let them hear my words, so that they may learn to fear me as long as they live on the earth, and may teach their children so”; 11 you approached and stood at the foot of the mountain while the mountain was blazing up to the very heavens, shrouded in dark clouds. 12 Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. 13 He declared to you his covenant, which he charged you to observe, that is, the ten commandments;[a] and he wrote them on two stone tablets. 14 And the Lord charged me at that time to teach you statutes and ordinances for you to observe in the land that you are about to cross into and occupy.

      15 Since you saw no form when the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire, take care and watch yourselves closely, 16 so that you do not act corruptly by making an idol for yourselves, in the form of any figure—the likeness of male or female, 17 the likeness of any animal that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the air, 18 the likeness of anything that creeps on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the water under the earth. 19 And when you look up to the heavens and see the sun, the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, do not be led astray and bow down to them and serve them, things that the Lord your God has allotted to all the peoples everywhere under heaven. 20 But the Lord has taken you and brought you out of the iron-smelter, out of Egypt, to become a people of his very own possession, as you are now.

      21 The Lord was angry with me because of you, and he vowed that I should not cross the Jordan and that I should not enter the good land that the Lord your God is giving for your possession. 22 For I am going to die in this land without crossing over the Jordan, but you are going to cross over to take possession of that good land. 23 So be careful not to forget the covenant that the Lord your God made with you, and not to make for yourselves an idol in the form of anything that the Lord your God has forbidden you. 24 For the Lord your God is a devouring fire, a jealous God.

      25 When you have had children and children’s children, and become complacent in the land, if you act corruptly by making an idol in the form of anything, thus doing what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, and provoking him to anger, 26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today that you will soon utterly perish from the land that you are crossing the Jordan to occupy; you will not live long on it, but will be utterly destroyed. 27 The Lord will scatter you among the peoples; only a few of you will be left among the nations where the Lord will lead you. 28 There you will serve other gods made by human hands, objects of wood and stone that neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. 29 From there you will seek the Lord your God, and you will find him if you search after him with all your heart and soul. 30 In your distress, when all these things have happened to you in time to come, you will return to the Lord your God and heed him. 31 Because the Lord your God is a merciful God, he will neither abandon you nor destroy you; he will not forget the covenant with your ancestors that he swore to them.

      32 For ask now about former ages, long before your own, ever since the day that God created human beings on the earth; ask from one end of heaven to the other: has anything so great as this ever happened or has its like ever been heard of? 33 Has any people ever heard the voice of a god speaking out of a fire, as you have heard, and lived? 34 Or has any god ever attempted to go and take a nation for himself from the midst of another nation, by trials, by signs and wonders, by war, by a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, and by terrifying displays of power, as the Lord your God did for you in Egypt before your very eyes? 35 To you it was shown so that you would acknowledge that the Lord is God; there is no other besides him. 36 From heaven he made you hear his voice to discipline you. On earth he showed you his great fire, while you heard his words coming out of the fire. 37 And because he loved your ancestors, he chose their descendants after them. He brought you out of Egypt with his own presence, by his great power, 38 driving out before you nations greater and mightier than yourselves, to bring you in, giving you their land for a possession, as it is still today. 39 So acknowledge today and take to heart that the Lord is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other. 40 Keep his statutes and his commandments, which I am commanding you today for your own well-being and that of your descendants after you, so that you may long remain in the land that the Lord your God is giving you for all time.

      jesus accepting worship would imply he was a polytheist . yhwh does not get taken over by wounds, suffering and death, the jews who saw him SHIT themselves, they chased jesus and hung him on a tree.

      the message of deut 4 has been BROKEN. crosstian break deut 4

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    • Brian, sorry for the late reply i was busy with homeworks…well as far as i’ve read on this subject from Unitarian and JW sources, i can say for sure they are not blaspheming, from a biblical standpoint of course…

      “What you are left with is the athanasian creed as the most rational and logical explanation and exegesis of who jesus was and the nature of god as described in the bible.”

      Nope, it’s far from rational and logical…not my intention to offend you but the creed is more like an interpretive quantum leap where deification is sought ad infinitum…

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    • shaad

      WHich christian unitarians are you referring to? There are different kinds – I think that almost all of them hold to the notion that jesus is a divine manifestation of some sort. Either he is a kind of created god, or he is god in a mode of existence. The first is blasphemy since it effectively posits a second god who is worshiped, the second means that god (as jesus) literally died.

      Trinitarianism resolves these issues through interpreting the truth of the NT the correct way – god is plural and exists simultaneously as Father, son and HS.

      JWs believe that jesus created the universe – making him our god – but don;t regard him as such, and only worship the father. That’s bizarre. In islam only allah creates, so JWs conflict with islam.

      And, no offense taken!

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    • Hi Brian,

      “WHich christian unitarians are you referring to? There are different kinds…”

      I meant those guys who don’t believe in the literal pre-existence of Christ…yeah there’s a plethora of Unitarians, many don’t believe in a literal pre-existence of Christ whereas others do, but in the end it all boils down to this cliché sentence “Jesus isn’t God”…

      “I think that almost all of them hold to the notion that jesus is a divine manifestation of some sort.”

      I think you should elaborate on that one, are you talking about their understanding of the Logos? Socinians have a more Jewish-like perspective as they view the Logos as the “Purpose”, “Plan”, “Promise” and “Divine Intention” of God which He express like he did through His Divine Utterance in Genesis, e.g the “Promise” became flesh in John 1:14…it makes sense but i don’t usually bring that up against Trinitarians…

      JWs believe that Christ literally preexisted as a spirit being such as an Angel, a created one, “Michael” to be more accurate, not a “demi-god” as far as i can see…

      “Either he is a kind of created god, or he is god in a mode of existence. The first is blasphemy since it effectively posits a second god who is worshiped, the second means that god (as jesus) literally died.”

      My dear Brian, seems you still have much to learn mate, okay first of all you must find out what exactly they mean by “god”…Angels are called gods in the OT, Judges as well…you should also look at what they actually mean by worship and it’s certainly not the kind of worship that you’re thinking about, sorry for not being more straightforward but there are lots of verses which sheds some light on this but i’m too lazy to quote them, yeah they do “Worship” Jesus but it’s more like an act of showing respect and paying homage instead of cultic religious reverence and devotion, e.g bowing down is frequently done to show respect in the bible…take a look at the Hebrew in Genesis 42:6, Genesis 23:7, Genesis 42:6, 1 Kings 1:23, 2 Samuel 14:22, 1 Samuel 24:8 and look at the Greek in Matthew 18:26…and there are other examples, take 1 Chronicles 29:20 as well…you’ll often find the Hebrew “shachah” translated as “proskuneo” in the LXX…

      “JWs believe that jesus created the universe – making him our god – but don;t regard him as such, and only worship the father. That’s bizarre. In islam only allah creates, so JWs conflict with islam.”

      I don’t tend to bring my Religion in discussions pertaining to Christian Theology as i’m pretty sure you already know how exactly I view the bible as a Muslim so i prefer to stick the discussion to what the bible says…anyway, i think you’re misunderstanding the JW perspective, they believe he was an agent for the Creation, i’ll say this again just to emphasize, they believe he.was.an.”agent” which points out that God Almighty is still the only one who creates, for example take a look at what Paul says in Colossians 1, if you look carefully at your interlinear you’ll see that the Context identifies the Father as the Creator and the Son as the Agent as in verse 13, the Father is the one Who delivers, in verse 14 the Father is still the Subject while the Son is the intermediate Agent easily identifiable by the ἐν clause, verse 15 add some details about the indirect Agent and in verse 16 Christ is the Indirect Agent again because of the ἐν clause (ἐν αὐτῷ), i think the NWT properly translate that part…

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    • Just in case i’ve not been enough clear on the last part… you’ll see God says in Isaiah 44:24 that He “Alone” made all things…but now take Isaiah 63:3 for example, God talks about how He “Alone” (Same Hebrew word in 44:24) exacted penalty on Edom does that mean He personally came down and did it? Of course not, He used Human agents for that, what this verse mean is that God is infact the Source of it…

      In Deutronomy 32:12 God says He “Alone” was leading Israel, but in Exodus 32:32-34 we see that God infact used Moses and an Angel as agents for that Job, so what that verse mean is that God is the source of it…

      Let’s not forget that the initial topic was which theology fits the bible…just in case…

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    • ” In islam only allah creates, so JWs conflict with islam.”

      you are for sure lizzy schofield, i know it.

      if Allah gave me the power to create, would i be God?

      When Allah says HE CREATES, that means he BRINGS things into existence and He is the only one who has the AUTHORITY to say “be”

      How could ANY creation have this power and authority when it is, itself BROUGHT into existence?

      Allah can CREATE through the sun

      Quote
      The Sun gives off light and heat, and we need both to make the Earth a warm, comfortable place to live. Plants use light from the Sun for photosynthesis, creating food for animals and oxygen for us to breathe. Sunlight makes our days bright, and it reflects off the Moon to give us light at night.

      so now i will ask you, since the sun has ROLE in creatng, should you worship it ?

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    • shaad

      John 1:1 says clearly that the word was with god and the word was god. It doesn’t get much clearer than that. NEstorians, and arians who were some of the early non-athanasian christians believed in christ’s divinity, they just differed on HOW jesu was god. Socianians originated in the 16th century – so they came late to the game.

      Agreed that JWs view jesus as the angel Michael who created everything apart from himself – that is a demi-god by any other name. There is no biblical support for jesus being the angel michael. And john 1:1 pretty much shoots socinianism in the foot.

      The only reasonable interpetation of the bible is the trinitarian one – jesus as god;s word incarnate, who atones for our sins, and sends the holy spirit. The father is the sovereign lord. Only when you cherry pick the scriptures can you reach the same conclusions as unitarians or JWs.

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    • toni/satan

      “if Allah gave me the power to create, would i be God?”

      YOu would be a blasphemer in islam, and dead. Allah does not divide himself? How can god impart his power without killing the receiver of this power? Does allah give a toned down version of his creative power? If this is the case you are saying that allah effectively does enter creation – his powers muct be intrinsic to him otherwise you have associated partners to your god.

      Shirk.

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    • “YOu would be a blasphemer in islam, and dead. Allah does not divide himself?”

      you see why you are a crosstian retard ?

      the big giant BALL of light is currently keeping everything in existence, take that out and you will freeze and die .

      does that mean yhwhs power has been DIVIDED and the sun has yhwhs CREATIVE power? so not only is yhwh 3 persons (divided into), but his POWERS get SHARED by objects too ?

      “How can god impart his power without killing the receiver of this power? ”

      now the question is CREATED power vs INFINITE power. now if God gave CREATED power, how does CREATED power mean that it has INFINITE power in it?

      since the sun is the REASON why you exist , does that mean it has yhwhs INFINITE power in it ?

      “Does allah give a toned down version of his creative power?”

      there are no versions your fukin moron. are there VERSIONS of yhwh in the sun, why don’t you worship the sun ?

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    • Quote
      The Sun gives off light and heat, and we need both to make the Earth a warm, comfortable place to live. Plants use light from the Sun for photosynthesis, creating food for animals and oxygen for us to breathe. Sunlight makes our days bright, and it reflects off the Moon to give us light at night.

      dear pagan crosstian, can you tell me why don’t you worship the sun?
      since yhwhs BECOMES a CREATURE, why not a HEAVENLY body?
      this all goes back to the question

      when yhwh said “let there be light”

      HOW was he able to bring light, when NOTHING existed except him ? was there are CO-EQUAL created version of him which had touch, taste, smell ?

      even jesus NEEDED the sun to survive. i still see the sun, but i don’t see jesus or any other prophet.

      since yhwh is DIVIDED into 3 persons . and since yhwh becomes DIFFERENT forms, then what is your ARGUMENT that the heavenly body is NOT sharing in yhwhs power , his ACTUAL power ?

      since yhwh can EXIST as a man, then he can EXIST as the sun too which would have BURNT jesus to death had jesus gone close to it,

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    • the sun is TOO important to human existence. take it out and everything DIES. everything perishes.

      you will FREEZE to death
      the earth would stop spinning
      youR FOOD would be DEAD

      now i will CONTINUE to ask you the question :

      why should not a crosstian BOW and worship the sun, because we have EVIDENCE that you EXIST because of it.

      take it out and you die.

      this item has been gifted with KEEPING humans living on the earth

      since you believe yhwh is omnipresent and since you believe that bowing before and worshipping a CREATED pupper is fine, why not the GIANT ball of light which keeps you living ?

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    • @Brian, Thanks for replying, i’ll respond tomorrow, i’m going to sleep…have a great day 👍

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    • John 1:1 says clearly that the word was with god and the word was god. It doesn’t get much clearer than that. NEstorians, and arians who were some of the early non-athanasian christians believed in christ’s divinity, they just differed on HOW jesu was god. Socianians originated in the 16th century – so they came late to the game.

      Agreed that JWs view jesus as the angel Michael who created everything apart from himself – that is a demi-god by any other name. There is no biblical support for jesus being the angel michael. And john 1:1 pretty much shoots socinianism in the foot.

      The only reasonable interpetation of the bible is the trinitarian one – jesus as god;s word incarnate, who atones for our sins, and sends the holy spirit. The father is the sovereign lord. Only when you cherry pick the scriptures can you reach the same conclusions as unitarians or JWs.

      —————————————————————————

      Good Evening Brian,

      “John 1:1 says clearly that the word was with god and the word was god”, “And john 1:1 pretty much shoots socinianism in the foot.

      Brian look, how do you expect me to understand what exactly you’re tryna convey if you don’t elaborate? You told me “john 1:1 pretty much shoots socinianism in the foot.” but you don’t even go into the details, i already explained the Socinian understanding of the Logos…do you know what exactly i meant by the “Logos”? I was infact talking about John 1:1, By the way, the rendering of the anarthrous pre-copulative predicate Θεὸς in John 1:1c can also be indefinite (take the NWT for example) and it doesn’t breach biblical Monotheism at all as i already said, Angels and Judges are also called gods…especially Angels, just to emphasize…

      “Agreed that JWs view jesus as the angel Michael…..”

      I asked a JW friend on that one, he told me JWs are confident that Jesus was Michael but they’re not dogmatic…just to clarify…

      “….who created everything apart from himself – that is a demi-god by any other name.”

      don’t get me wrong Brian but I only care about the bible says, and as far as i can see, Jesus isn’t infact the source of it but the Agent, he’s a simple created being who’s subordinate to God and completely dependent on Him, and where exactly is the problem if God gave him that ability? That infact doesn’t make him God at all…you can weirdly call it a demi-god but i call it an Angel, even better i’ll call it pretty much a “Principle Angel” or even some kind of other created Heavenly being if possible but certainly not a “demi-god”, are you familiar with Larry Hurtado’s research on the Principle Angels? i’ll quote some interesting stuff from his study….

      “That is, we may conclude that the Qumran texts in their own way reflect what
      seems to have been a view shared more widely in second-temple Jewish tradition that
      God has a particular principal-agent figure, a heavenly vizier or viceroy of sorts, who
      has a status over all God’s other heavenly courtiers and hosts. Also, as is often the
      case in other texts, in the Qumran references this figure is a high angel. Moreover, as
      we have seen, this figure can be so closely linked with God’s rule and plans that the
      actions of this figure are the execution of God’s own actions, God portrayed as acting
      in a remarkably direct manner through this figure. Indeed, in some cases this
      principal-angel is described as indwelt by God’s name, and can be referred to as
      ‘Elohim….”

      “….On the other hand, it is equally apparent that in all the texts we have
      considered here none of these variously-titled figures is never a rival to Yahweh, never
      eclipses God; instead they are consistently portrayed as serving God’s purposes”

      So i don’t see any reason to consider the JW interpretation of Christ as some kind of “demi-god” if he acts like an agent in creation, it’s not surprising infact on top of that it’s compatible with what Paul says in Colossians. By the way, judging from your response i wanted to elaborate on what i wanted to say on Colossians 1:16 but i think what i already said is pretty understandable because of the ἐν clause Christ is portrayed as the agent (ἐν αὐτῷ, also in 1:14)…so what i meant is that Christ is not even the creator of anything in Colossians 1:16, he’s no even the source, it clearly portrays the Father as the Creator and the source while Jesus is a simple Agent….here’s what Robert Countess has to say in his 1969 Masterpiece “Thank God for the Genitive”, i’ll put the Greek between brackets to make it easier…

      “Even though Liddell-Scott state that the radical sense of DIA (δι) is ‘through’ there can be produced instances where the genitive appears to be causal and the accusative to signify agency. In general this writer would observe that the so-called causal uses of DIA (δι) seem to be inextricably linked with agency (i.e. ‘by’ or ‘through’).
      For example, one lexicon cites as causal John 1:3-DI AUTOU EGENETO. (δι αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο) [cf. Col. 1:16-TA PANTA DI AUTOU KAI EIS AUTON EKTISTAI.] (τὰ πάντα δι αὐτοῦ καὶ εἰς αὐτὸν ἔκτισται) God apparently worked *through* the Son in creating all things and, therefore, the Son Himself in some sense *caused* or created. Another example given is Acts 3:18- O DE QEOS A PROKATHGGEILEN DIA STOMATOS PANTWN TWN PROFHTWN. (ὁ δὲ Θεὸς ἃ προκατήγγειλεν διὰ στόματος πάντων τῶν προφητῶν) Here the mouth of all the prophets is the channel or medium *through which* God announced beforehand the sufferings of Christ. The prophets indeed *caused* the message to be proclaimed but only inasmuch as their mouths had been selected as channels or media for the divine communication.”

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    • Oops, please ignore the full quote at the start of my comment…

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    • shaad

      JOhn 1:1 says this…

      “1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ”

      John 1:14 says this…

      “14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.”

      So here, clearly, the word is called god, it was with god and was god. Surely you must agree that this destroys socinianism? They don;t believe that jesus is god – John 1 calls jesus god, socinianism, hence, is unbiblical.

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    • Brian, i think you don’t understand what i meant by “Logos”, i was specifically talking about John 1:1…

      Ἐν (In) ἀρχῇ (Beginning) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) Λόγος/LOGOS (Word)

      καὶ (and) ὁ (the) Λόγος/LOGOS (Word) ἦν (was) πρὸς (With) τὸν Θεόν (God)

      καὶ (and) Θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) Λόγος/LOGOS (Word)

      LOGOS=Word

      and i already explained how Unitarians understand the Λόγος, it’s different from the straighfoward interpretation of Trinitarians and JWs, they are more Jewish-like, they consider John 1:1 as poetic, pretty much like how Lady Wisdom is portrayed in the OT…anyway i always opt for a straighfoward interpretation and i prefer the NWT’s rendering…

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    • and no i don’t think John 1:1 destroys Socinianism, it’s infact pretty much the heart of their theology…and their interpretation makes sense as well…

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  3. The Jewish principle of “Shaliach” is also important to grasp in order to get a proper understanding of the bible…

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  4. the christianity that brian believes in is clearly polytheistic.

    brian has no problem with believing that god exists in many forms

    if this is so, then yhwhs power is in the form of the sun and this power was co-eternal with yhwh before anything existed.

    meaning the sun always existed with yhwh

    since he will be ready to poke jesus’ wounds and call him “lord and god” and say “that’s gods word”

    then if he is happy to worship the word, he should have no problem worshipping the power of god in the form of the sun

    christianity is a religion which is polytheistic in nature

    UNLESS he agrees WITH the muslims and KEEPS CREATED power SEPARATE FROM INFINITE power without the two of them MIXING, but brian can not believe this, he believes that the word became flesh, he needs TOUCH, taste , smell , feelings…. “physicalness ”

    i will say that gods POWER became the sun, what argument does he have against this ?

    so get ready brian, bring your ass outside AND BOW before yhwh the sun

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    • and to prove that yhwh was sun god is not difficult from the torah

      On the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the Israelites, Joshua spoke to the Lord; and he said in the sight of Israel,

      “Sun, stand still at Gibeon,
      and Moon, in the valley of Aijalon.”
      13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped,
      until the nation took vengeance on their enemies.

      joshua SPOKE to the sun/yhwh
      in the sight of israel ALL they saw was a guy SPEAKING to the sun, this means in the sight of israel yhwh was the sun .

      now remember that joel believes that yhwh CAME down as cloud, angel, fire…..
      this guy should have NO PROBLEM bowing and worshipping the sun.

      christianity is POLYTHEISTIC and since the OT is corrupt, signs of POLYTHEISM is clearly in it.

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    • “Sun, stand still at Gibeon,
      and Moon, in the valley of Aijalon.”

      hey joel, was there are power split going on ?

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    • christianity is a religion which is polytheistic in nature

      UNLESS he agrees WITH the muslims and KEEPS CREATED power SEPARATE FROM INFINITE power without the two of them MIXING, but brian can not believe this, he believes that the word became flesh, he needs TOUCH, taste , smell , feelings…. “physicalness ”

      i will say that gods POWER became the sun, what argument does he have against this ?

      so get ready brian, bring your ass outside AND BOW before yhwh the sun

      I say;
      Christianity was derived from this Greek/Roman concept of God the Sun or Sun God. Most Pagans worship the Sun and believed it is the eternal generation of God’s power. Christians based the argument on this principle as Jesus is the eternally generated Son of God. You see where they copied the Greek/Roman concept of God?

      Some paintings of Jesus Christ will have yellow Sun round his head to depict the fusing of Sun/Son concept derived from Greek Roman Sun God.

      Christians will say Muslims too have the Quran which is the eternal word of God, so Quran is God. Shabbir Ally will always reply them that “no Muslim worship the Quran”, “No Muslim ever believed the Quran is God”. If the Quran is the eternal word of God and so what? Does that make Quran God? No. Word of God is not God Himself. Knowledge of God is not God Himself, God is “All knowing”- knows everything.

      One cannot take “all knowing” as one God, “word” as another God, “Quran or eternal word of God” as another God and keep worshiping multiple Gods. That is polytheism. We worship Allah alone. We do not worship attributes or names but we worship Allah Himself.

      Christians will take the attributes like power, word etc. and worship each as God. That is polytheism and big problem.

      Prophet Mohammed told some of his companions that, they will go the heaven. No Muslim believed Prophet Mohammed is God because of such utterance. We believed he had everything he says from God. Christians on the other hand will say Jesus is God because he forgives sins. They do not have the sense to know he is man and God messenger on earth and what he says is from God and not he himself.

      Mike Pence Syria will be bombed and a brain dead will say Mike Pence is Donald Trump because he said Syria will be bombed.

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  5. JOhn 1:1 says this…

    “1 In the beginning was the power, and the power was with God, and the power was God. ”

    John 1:14 says this…

    “14 The power became the sun and made her shine among us.”

    okay brian, since you believe word became flesh, i will use the bible to say that yhwhs power became the sun .

    why don’t you go outside and WORSHIP THE SUN ?

    Like

  6. DEAR crosstians, all of you and every sect among you is idolatrous.
    you created “divine revelation ” to have fully god and fully man come out of woman’s private part, i will invent some revelation for you guys using the gospel of john :

    JOhn 1:1 says this…

    “1 In the beginning was the power, and the power was with God, and the power was God. ”

    John 1:14 says this…

    “14 The power became the sun and made her shine among us.”

    okay brian, since you believe word became flesh, i will use the bible to say that yhwhs power became the sun .

    why don’t you go outside and WORSHIP THE SUN ?

    why is the sun so important to OUR existence?

    QUOTE :

    Nothing is more important to us on Earth than the Sun. Without the Sun’s heat and light, the Earth would be a lifeless ball of ice-coated rock. The Sun warms our seas, stirs our atmosphere, generates our weather patterns, and gives energy to the growing green plants that provide the food and oxygen for life on Earth.

    dear crosstians, can you tell me WHY don’t you worship the sun ?

    Like

  7. “Some paintings of Jesus Christ will have yellow Sun round his head to depict the fusing of Sun/Son concept derived from Greek Roman Sun God.”

    more research on this should be done,

    Like

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