Deconstructing the Trinity

Published on 31 May 2016

Brother Hashim (Muslim) speaks with Christians about the Trinity at Speakers Corner. Hashim puts the concept of the Trinity to the test by asking some basic questions using logic and reason. It becomes apparent throughout this video the concept of this doctrine is logically flawed and inconsistent. Trinitarians make the claim that God is one Being who exists eternally as three distinct persons — the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. “One God in three persons.” All three persons of the Trinity are said to be co-equal and co-eternal, and “each is 100% God, whole and entire”.



Categories: Christianity, God

51 replies

  1. Great video. Sad why some people want to be stubborn in thinking they can overcome the truth of simple logic and reason.

    God gave us the capability to use logic and reason which sets us apart from animals.

    And God gave us the conscience which tells us that we must use logic and reason.

    Those who want to go against logic and reason are going against the purpose why God created them.

    Would not God be angry with them when they return to God in the hereafter?

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Unbelieveable

    Liked by 1 person

  3. A simple intuitive understanding of the trinity is all that is necessary for salvation.

    Not being able to give a scientific definition of the trinity is not a proof that it does not exist.

    It would not be possible anyway because the being of God does not exist in the same form as the being of man, except insofar as it is also a spirit being as Jesus told us, God is a spirit.

    Is Allah a spirit?

    Like

    • “A simple intuitive understanding of the trinity is all that is necessary for salvation.”

      If that is true (doubtful), your “brethren” in the video fail miserably

      Like

  4. “If that is true (doubtful), your “brethren” in the video fail miserably”

    We shouldn’t be surprised by this as Christian apologists such as James White have stated that most Christians don’t know what the Trinity is and may even have heretical views!

    Like

  5. The oneness of Allah is also a mystery. How do you define it? Oneness of what? Absolute oneness is oneness in what sense? Can Muslims give a coherent answer?

    Like

    • madmanna

      “The oneness of Allah is also a mystery. How do you define it? Oneness of what? Absolute oneness is oneness in what sense? Can Muslims give a coherent answer?”

      No muslim can answer that question – they have no idea who or what they worship. They probably understand the trinity more than they understand their own concept of god.

      The muslim god, apparently, has 99 finite attributes – including his oneness, if that makes any sense. His oneness is only an attribute, so they cannot actually tell us for sure if their god is truly unitarian.

      This is why muslim sites like this one focus so hard on the trinity – they are simply unable to explain their own concept of god because it is so incoherent. The trinity has a far more logical basis for truth than the bizarro islamic concept of “99-personalities-in-one-oneness”.

      Good luck trying to get your question answered though!

      Like

    • No mystery at all, as God reveals himself consistently and explicitly again and again always as “one”.

      He never reveals himself explicitly as “three”. Not once.

      Like

    • Burhanuddin1

      “No mystery at all, as God reveals himself consistently and explicitly again and again always as “one”.

      He never reveals himself explicitly as “three”. Not once.”

      But your infinite god has 99 finite attributes – including his oneness. That’s the mystery. His essences are finite – where does the god of the bible describe himself in this way? He does no such thing – not even once, not even in your own quran does he say he has 99 attributes/essences.

      Like

    • D No buts or ifs or maybe needed.

      God reveals himself consistently and explicitly again and again always as “one”.

      He never reveals himself explicitly as “three”. Not once.

      He also made it perfectly clear for you that to is vitally important to realize him as “one Lord”. Through the mouth of his prophet Jesus (as) in YOUR holy book. Explicitly.

      Why the urge to speculate down the slippery road of man made ambiguous philosophical concepts? That’s madness.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Burhanuddin1

      “He also made it perfectly clear for you that to is vitally important to realize him as “one Lord”. Through the mouth of his prophet Jesus (as) in YOUR holy book. Explicitly.”

      But where does jesus and the infinite god of the OT say that he has 99 finite attributes/essences/personalities?

      You guys just do not know your own theology – that’s why you expend so much energy on trying – and failing – to disprove the trinity because if you thought about your own doctrines of god, you’d realize it is completely incoherent.

      In the NT jesus makes clear statements that he is divine and then he makes clear statements that he is fully human. His followers make statements that show this is what they understood him to be saying.

      Like

    • D
      Stop putting words in other people’s mouth.
      More important: Don’t put words in God’s mouth. Very very no no.

      Like

    • Burhanuddin1

      “D
      Stop putting words in other people’s mouth.
      More important: Don’t put words in God’s mouth. Very very no no.”

      You are the guys who have made up 99 attribute god with a finite essence. That’s nowhere to be found in bible.

      Like

  6. Don’t you need to have parts for a unity to exist? It must be a unity of something that is more than one?

    Like

    • You seem to lack a simple intuitive understanding of the trinity (that is all that is necessary for salvation …?)

      According to trinitarians it is absolutely essential that God has no parts.

      Like

  7. The video was frustrating as the Christians guys (at the beginning) should not have used Melchizedek and say that he was Jesus in the OT. (Some have thought Melchizedek was a “pre-incarnate manifestation” of Christ, but most scholars do not agree with that. It seems that he was a real human; but Hebrews 7 is saying that because his parents are not mentioned, in contrast to Levitical priests that had their genealogies explicitly spelled out, that Melchizedek is like the Son of God , not that Melchizedek is the Son of God.) I gave up watching the whole thing and skipped around some, but it is mostly the same kind of discussions we have here.

    Also, one time one of the guys admitted Jesus is not God, but then later he said He was – as far as I can tell, he just mis-spoke and did not mean to say that. It was in the heat of arguing and trying to answer the Muslim’s demanding attitude of “answer me right now fast and give it to me in one sentence” kind of way to demanding. The Christians were also interrupting too and seemed to yell sometimes. When they asked each other to calm down and not interrupt they did, but it was still intense and hard to lay out the doctrine in an orderly and calm fashion.

    There was just too much yelling and interruptions.

    The Doctrine of the Trinity is a big subject and cannot be grasped in just sound bites and demands from Muslims to answer their demands in the words that they demand.

    You have to accept that the Christians came to their conclusions about the Trinity based on putting all the texts together on the issue. The many texts of the Scriptures forced the interpretations of “same substance” and “three persons”. It is not in one verse.

    https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2014/01/18/the-doctrine-of-the-trinity-trinitas-unitas-unitas-trinitas/

    Like

    • “There was just too much yelling and interruptions.”

      That’s just how it is in their culture

      Liked by 1 person

    • Ken Temple

      You said;
      You have to accept that the Christians came to their conclusions about the Trinity based on putting all the texts together on the issue. The many texts of the Scriptures forced the interpretations of “same substance” and “three persons”. It is not in one verse.

      I say
      God is One is in one verse and in several places in the Bible. Why is the salvation of “3 persons one God” not in the Bible?

      Thanks.

      Liked by 1 person

    • John 8:24, “unless you believe that “I am” you will die in your sins”.
      So, a person must believe Jesus is God/Yahweh to be saved.

      Acts 5:3-5 – teaches the Holy Spirit is God.

      Mark 12:29, 1 Tim. 2:5; 1 Cor. 8:6 teaches there is only one God.

      Three persons are mentioned in Matthew 28:19, 2 Cor. 13:14 and other passages. the word “person” has to be because the Father and the Son and Holy Spirit talk to each other, love one another, have a personal relationship, spiritually, with one another from all eternity past.

      Therefore, the one God in 3 persons is part of what a person must believe in order to be saved, once a person is taught all the basics. There are people who are saved who don’t know how to articulate these truths yet, because they have not been taught yet, but they believe, and once they are taught properly, they don’t rebel and fight against the doctrine.

      Like

    • Why do you demand that the doctrine has to be in one verse?

      Christianity has never said that this has to be all in one verse. It is called “doing theology” – putting all the verses together.

      Like

    • Now I ask in all humility.

      Who is giving away the Church Seal of approval on your Christian sources and is writing your Bible Dictionaries and Encyclopaedias? Barbers… Shoemakers… Genitors…??? May be those who are giving CHURCH seals of approvals and writing these Bible Dictionaries and Encyclopaedias have no study and are imbeciles! Can you imagine?!?! No, your own Bible Scholastic and Ecumenical Authorities (not individuals) are telling you that “Trinity” is not a Biblical concept. NOT only the word “Trinity” BUT the Doctrine of Trinity is also NOT to be found in the Bible. It is the peoples’ (your) lack of study that is making them (you) believe in something that is just not there.

      ************* In “The Dictionary of the Bible,” John L. McKenzie, S.J., p. 899 bearing the Nihil Obstat, Imprimatur, and Imprimi Potest (official Church seals of approval), we read: “THE TRINITY OF GOD IS DEFINED BY THE CHURCH AS THE BELIEF THAT IN GOD ARE THREE PERSONS WHO SUBSIST IN ONE NATURE. THAT BELIEF AS SO DEFINED WAS REACHED ONLY IN THE 4th AND 5th CENTURIES AD AND HENCE IS NOT EXPLICITLY AND FORMALLY A BIBLICAL BELIEF.” (Emphasis mine)

      HarperCollins Bible Dictionary: HarperCollins Bible Dictionary states “The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the 4th and 5th century is not to be found in the New Testament.”

      HarperCollins Encyclopedia of the Bible States “The Doctrine of the Trinity as such is not revealed in the New Testament or the Old Testament”

      The above mentioned are just a few of the hundreds of examples of knowledge that your Church and priests and the pastors and the evangelists and the preachers will not share with the masses in general. Why? who wants to loose his sheep?!?!

      Here is the explicit statement of Jesus. “And this is life eternal, that they might know YOU THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” John 17:3 “YOU”… Jesus is very clearly talking to a different entity and saying that it is YOU who is the ONLY TRUE GOD.

      See what the Messenger Jesus himself said:

      John 20:17: “Jesus saith unto her, …I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”

      Have another look!
      “….MY FATHER and YOUR FATHER; and TO MY GOD and YOUR GOD”
      “MY GOD and YOUR GOD”
      “MY GOD and YOUR GOD”

      Not only is God Jesus’ Father, just like he is the Father of all, but He is also his GOD. Think about this carefully. Also notice how Jesus is equating between himself and mankind in these matters and not between himself and God. He is making it as clear as he possibly can that he is one of the people and not “God”.

      Concept of Oneness of God was stressed by Moses in the Biblical passage Known as the “Shema,” or the Jewish creed of faith: “Hear, O Israel The Lord our God is one Lord” (Deuteronomy 6:4) It was repeated word-for-word approximately 1500 years later by Jesus when he said “…The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord OUR God is one Lord.” (Mark 12:29) Think! Can you see the words?: “OUR God”. The God of me (Jesus) and you. The God of you and me (Jesus).

      ! (If you are a Catholic. Even though Trinity was borrowed as it is by the Protestants from the Catholics) The New Catholic Encyclopaedia: • The New Catholic Encyclopedia states “the formula itself (the Trinity) does not reflect the immediate consciousness of the period of origins.” • What does that mean? “Period of origin” – in other words during the time of Jesus Christ, and during the time of the recording of the manuscripts that formed the foundation of the Bible. • If you read further is says “Among the Apostolic fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.” NOTHING!!! That’s is a very strong statement for a Catholic reference work to make. • The Apostolic fathers who were responsible for passing the religion to further generation refuted the concept of the Trinity.

      The Qur’an revealed this truth over fourteen hundred years ago: “O people of the book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and his word, which he bestowed upon Mary, and a spirit preceding from him so believe in Allah and his messengers. Say not “Three / Trinity” desist It will be better for you for Allah is one God Glory be to him Far exalted is he above having a son. To him belong all things in the heavens and the earth. And enough is Allah as a disposer of affairs.”(4:171)

      Like

    • bearing the Nihil Obstat, Imprimatur, and Imprimi Potest (official Church seals of approval) = Roman Catholic Church, yes.

      The Protestants ( I am one) did not borrow the doctrine of the Trinity from the Roman Catholics, rather the doctrine is in the Scriptures, although the specific word “trinitas” is not. Trinitas Unitas (Three in One) is a Biblical concept. Jesus Himself pointed to it in Matthew 28:19 – “baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit”. So Jesus names the three persons of the One True God, Yahweh. The Holy Spirit descended on Him in the form of a dove at His baptism and the voice of the Father came from Heaven, “this is My Beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased”. (Matthew 3:13-17; Mark chapter 1, Luke chapter 3) All three persons are there, and there is only ONE God in substance. Jesus was with the Father in eternity – John 17:5. If you quote John 17:3, you have to accept verses 4 and 5 and 1 and 2 also, and also John 1:1-5 which clearly teaches Jesus is God. Also John 5:17-18; 10:30, 8:56-58; and 20:28 – all prove the Deity of Christ.

      Like

  8. madmanna

    You said;
    Don’t you need to have parts for a unity to exist? It must be a unity of something that is more than one?

    I say;
    Parts of unity? God exists as a being i.e. divine being. God said He is One, Only and Alone clearly written in the Bible. Every person is a being. A person who is not a being is not a person whether that person is God.

    God said He is clearly One, Only and Alone so it is not a mystery to understand the nature/essence of God as One being. The “one” qualifying the being or person of God as One, Only and Alone.

    The “One” does not mean God Himself but it qualified God as One Being. The same applies to all God’s attributes such as Mercy, Love, Grace etc.

    Some Christians believe God’s attributes like “One” is God Himself, Love is God Himself like the Pagan Romans and Greek who have goddess of Love, God of the Sun/Son etc. Some pictures of Jesus has a round glowing sun around him to know where the concept of sun God comes from.

    So, Mr. D, once again, God’s attributes like Mercy, One, Love etc. is not God Himself but His attributes. Mr. madmanna the above must tell you that God is One and there is no unity of beings that have intellect, consciousness and existence i.e. Jesus, God the Father and God the Holy spirit are not attributes/characteristics/features etc. of God but each is a person and being and that is impossible as one person/being because God said He is one existence/being.

    Two or more existence/persons/beings as one God is impossible that is why you cannot find “God is 3 persons” in the Bible. It is impossible when God said he is One, Only and Alone in the Bible.

    Jesus exists, so he is one existence/being, God exists so he is one existence, being. I do not know who the Holy Spirit says he is because he never speaks so anything said about the Holy Spirit is not true. At least Jesus and God the Father are 2 beings.

    Ken Temple said because we are human we can have only one person to one being but God can have multiple persons to one being i.e. Jesus, Emperor Haile Selaissie, Sai Baba etc. can reincarnate as Gods in person and share the same being like Mormons with so many persons sharing the same God existence/being.

    The Bible said God is Only One and Alone. Ken Temple said God the Father is with Jesus from eternity generating/creating Jesus and they love each other and so violated the Bible’s God who says clearly He is One, Only and Alone.

    Thanks

    Like

  9. “The Unity

    [112.1] Say: He, Allah, is One.”

    But one in what way? This is just a statement that does not say anything concrete in terms of anything that we can conceptualize as a thing that actually exists outside the imagination. As such it is an incoherent statement. Does Allah make incoherent statements about himself? Should we worship him if that is the case?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jesus and Moses said God is One as well. What religion do you follow Madman?

      Like

    • You make a good point madmanna. Although Muslims would assert time and time again that God is one, this oneness is never really philosophically discussed or debated. Every description of tawhid I’ve come across is incoherent once you start digging below the surface of what this oneness actually entails. And to date, I’ve never seen Paul ever really be willing to discuss Islamic theology

      Like

    • you have not be following my comments over the years on this blog then. It’s bizarre that you, a self-proclaimed Christian, cannot accept the unitarian theology of Moses, Jesus and Muhammad and all the prophets and messengers of God.

      Very peculiar.

      Liked by 1 person

  10. “Intellect”:
    why do you keep repeating stupid and goofy comments about Haile Salassie and Sai Baba and Mormons?

    Rastafarians, Hindus, and Mormons are not even close or comparable to the doctrine of the Monotheistic Trinity.

    According to the wikipedia article on Haile Salassie, he was a member of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church all his life and he denied what the Rastafarians were making him out to be.

    Hinduism and Mormonism are polytheistic, so there is no comparison with Trinitarian Monotheism.

    Like

    • Rastafarians believe Emperor Haile Selaissie is God incarnate to man. You Ken Temple believe God can do whatever He wants to do and can incarnate into man, so you are the same with them and the Mormons who also believe like you Ken Temple God can b several persons. You say you are monotheist with your several persons God, the Mormons, Rastafarians and Hindus believe they are monotheists.

      I worship the same God with Jews, Unitarian Christians because we all believe God can not be several persons. no

      Jay Smith believes God can turn into Goat if He wants to. Why not Sai Baba and Emperor Haile Selaissie.

      Thanks.

      Liked by 1 person

    • No, Hindus and Mormons actually confess that they are not Monotheists; if they are honest – Mormons are tricky and say something like “the true God is the only God for this planet (earth), but their doctrine sees millions of gods in infinite numbers of planets all over the Universe. A Hindu man said to me years ago when I was witnessing to him about Jesus: “Let me show you a picture of my god” and he pulled out his wallet and showed me a hideous cartoon picture of a blue creature with 4 or 6 arms. They admit they believe in many gods, so neither Mormonism nor Hinduism is comparable.

      Like

    • Ken Temple

      You also have pictures of the God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and sometimes the virgin Mary as the mother of God. If God can have a mother, why not have so many brothers like James the brother of Jesus?

      Thanks.

      Like

    • Roman Catholics make those pictures. They are wrong to do that. Paul Williams puts some of them up – paintings, artistic imagination. It should not be done. icons and statues are wrong in a worship context. “Mother of God” did not mean she produced God, it meant that Jesus was God in the womb and always, even before He became a human – Philippians 2:5-8; John 1:1-5; 1:14

      Like

  11. Rastafarians believe Emperor Haile Selaissie is God incarnate to man.

    Do they believe he was an incarnation or a manifestation? There is a difference.
    Do they believe Haile Selasie was born of a virgin and pre-existed from all eternity?

    Or are they like the Alawites (Alaviye علویه ) , who believe that Ali was a manifestation of God, that God was in him?

    Like

  12. Why not? Because those are false religions and false concepts and the Bible (Old Testament and New Testament, the true Injeel) is the word of God, and it explains the truth to us.

    Like

  13. Thought icons and pictures and statues of God and Christ are wrong; I don’t agree with violence against Roman Catholics or Eastern Orthodox for that; and I don’t have a problem with Jesus movies and films, since we know that is not Him, etc.

    The problem is when the RCs and EO bowing down to statues and icons and kissing them and praying to them. That is very bad.

    Like

  14. Rastafarians are Trinitarians who believe Haile Selaissie is a messiah.

    https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=v6BQV9-DFpDIsgTTtYwY&gws_rd=ssl#q=rastafarian

    Thanks.

    Like

    • a nutty religion mostly about smoking marijuana and thinking that gets them in touch with God “spiritually”.

      Nuts !!

      It is not clear that they are orthodox Trinitarians. they may be modalists. Heretics.

      Like

  15. “Jesus and Moses said God is One as well. What religion do you follow Madman?”

    They said God is one LORD, which is a coherent statement about God, unlike the Quran.

    “The Unity

    [112.1] Say: He, Allah, is One.”

    One is nothing that exists.It is just an abstract concept by itself. All we can conclude from this is that Allah does not exist as a real thing but as an abstract concept in the minds of Muslims. In this I agree with the Koran. Is One one of the 99 names?

    Like

  16. Thanks Intellect,

    My Koran is the KJV which translates this verse as:

    19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Ken Temple “… as the Christians guys (at the beginning) should not have used Melchizedek and say that he was Jesus in the OT.” You are absolutely right.

    Now here’s the deal: Why not focus on bringing all your ignorant heretic missionary brethren out there back in line first?

    Should be a piece of cake, as you all got the same HS, right?

    Once you done that, you can come back knocking on Muslim’s doors. Good luck!

    Liked by 1 person

    • They affirmed the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. (so they are orthodox in doctrine)

      Others think Melchizedek was a pre-incarnation manifestation of Jesus in the OT. I don’t agree with that, but that is another view held by some, as far as I can tell. It is a minor issue and not heretical either way.

      Like

    • This video probably contains most trinitarian blunders per minute ever.

      I personally know various “born again” “biblical Christians” who believe Jesus is not God, Jesus is the Father, the exalted Jesus is now not “man” any more and so on.

      James White admits a vast majority of “Christians” hold heretical views. So please tidy up your own mess first before you give unwelcome advice to Muslims.

      Liked by 1 person

  18. James 2:19 shows believing in Monotheism is not enough to save you. Even the demons and Satan know there is only one God.

    But “one God” or “God is one” is also true in Trinitarianism, not just Unitarianism.

    Like

  19. I personally know various “born again” “biblical Christians” who believe Jesus is not God,

    Then they are not Christians, not born again. John 8:24 – one must believe in the Deity of Christ in order to be saved.

    Jesus is the Father, the exalted Jesus is now not “man” any more and so on.

    yes, those are heresies also. Modalism is heresy; and Jesus still has both natures, although now glorified. Sometimes it is a case of a true believer who doesn’t know, has not been taught, but when taught, they agree, thus showing they are believers.

    James White admits a vast majority of “Christians” hold heretical views.

    Yes, but don’t know if he said “vast majority”; and if he did, he would say “vast majority who claim to be Christians and go to a so called evangelical church”.

    So please tidy up your own mess first before you give unwelcome advice to Muslims.

    We are commanded to do both. Since Paul Williams has a website/blog attacking Christian doctrine, we have every right to respond; and I am thankful he allows a lot of discussion.

    You as a Muslim are commanded to do both also in your religion; so it is not a case of “first clean up your mess”, then, etc.

    We could say same thing “unwelcome”, but we don’t; and we are not afraid of discussion, debate, disagreement, and Muslims Da’wa efforts.

    Like

  20. Ken Temple

    You said;

    Ken Temple

    June 3, 2016 • 4:30 pm

    They affirmed the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. (so they are orthodox in doctrine)

    Others think Melchizedek was a pre-incarnation manifestation of Jesus in the OT. I don’t agree with that, but that is another view held by some, as far as I can tell. It is a minor issue and not heretical either way.

    I say;
    Minor issue? Knowing who Jesus(God) is among Christians and you call it minor issue? D keep saying Christians know their God because He revealed himself to them but it appears not to be true because pre this, pre that and Melchizedek is Christ and he is not Christ etc. It means Christian God has not revealed Himself very well to Christians. Where is Mr. D? Can you help Ken Temple here.

    He implies your Christian God never reveal himself to you properly hence the confusing among Trinitarians themselves.

    Rastafarians affirmed the Trinity and the Deity of Christ and so they are orthodox in doctrine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari

    You said;
    James 2:19 shows believing in Monotheism is not enough to save you. Even the demons and Satan know there is only one God.

    But “one God” or “God is one” is also true in Trinitarianism, not just Unitarianism.

    I say;
    Yes you are right “God is one” or “one God” is true to idol worshipers and the Pagan Arabs. Every body believes God is one including idol worshipers.

    What is wrong with idol worshipers and Trinitarians?

    Saying other things and or other persons/beings are God.

    Jews, Muslims and the Unitarian Christians do not add other things, persons/beings as Gods and so that is where the differences are and Abraham is the Father of monotheism who never worshiped Jesus Christ but worshiped only one God who is alone and no Christ as God.

    You said;
    James 2:19 shows believing in Monotheism is not enough to save you. Even the demons and Satan know there is only one God.

    I say;
    Exactly, that is why some people will be punished without sincere repentance. Sincere repentance is the key to save anyone because all beliefs believe one must sincerely repent before his sins are forgiven. If you follow satanic ways and sincerely repents, then you are forgiven.

    You will not be forgiven if you say another thing/person/being/man etc. is God or incarnated into God.

    Thanks.

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: