Refutation of Islamophobe Converted2Islam Concerning Use of Al Tabari

Interesting



Categories: Islamophobia

16 replies

  1. Shammy used weak and rejected reports:

    The narrators who transmit this story are deemed by scholars ‘weak’, the report’s are not accepted. In fact, Islamic scholar Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal (780 – 855 AD) says some of those who narrate are “liars”.

    The following are the names of some of the classical to contemporary scholars who did not accept these reports in Tafsir al-Tabari:

    Shaykh Al-Albani (1914 – 1999):

    “weak…” (Tarikh Ahadith Fiquh al-Sirah page 406)

    Al-Hafiz bin Hajar (1372 – 1449 CE) stated:

    “and it was said before that Jad bin Qais was a hypocrite, and Abu Na’im and Ibn mrdodya from Dahaq from ibn Abbas that when god revealed {Permit me [to remain at home] and do not put me to trial} and ibn Mardudia narrated it from Aisha with a WEAK SANAD, and from jabir from a vague and ambiguous sanad. (Al-Isaaba volume 1 page 230)

    More scholars:

    Hathimi mentioned it in al-Majma’ and said: “and Tabarani mentioned it in al-kabri wa al-awsat and in it is Yahyah al-hamani and he is WEAK“(1) (Mu’ma al-Zawaid volume 7 page 30)

    And lastly:

    Yahyah bin Abid Hamid al-Hamani, al-Dhahabi commenting about him said, “memorizer hafiz but Munkar (rejected, denounced) and WEAK IN HADITH”

    Ibn Abi Ma’id verified that and others did so, and Ahmad Ibn Hanbal said: HE USED TO LIE in public, and Nasai said he is “WEAK” (2) (al-Muqni Fi al-Du’afa volume 2 page 522) and he made more exploration about him in Tahdeb(3) (Ibid volume 11 page 245)

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    • Shammy and other missionaries deceptively made up their own definition for the meaning of Banu al-Asfar:

      The evidence that ‘yellow’ does not refer to hair comes from an early report in Ibn Kathir’s ‘Al-Sira al-Nabawiyya’ (1301 – 1373 AD):

      “…The Messenger of God (SAAS) ordered his men to make an expedition against the Byzantines. This was at a time when there was considerable suffering from poverty, extreme heat and drought. The fruit was now ripe and people wanted to enjoy it in the shade; they hated the idea of leaving right away at that season.
      ‘The Messenger of God (SAAS) rarely went forth on an expedition without disguising its purpose. The expedition to Tabuk, however, he fully explained because of the great distance, the severity of the season and the LARGE SIZE OF THE ENEMY FORCE HE INTENDED TO BATTLE; he gave this explanation so that his men could make proper preparations. He ordered them to ready their equipment, telling them he was going to attack the Byzantines.
      ‘The Messenger of God (SAAS), while reading his own equipment, asked Jadd b. Qays, a man of Banu Salama, ‘Jadd, would you like now to attack the BANU ASFAR, the YELLOW SKINS?’ HE replied, ‘Messenger of God, do excuse me and not tempt me; I swear by God, my people well know there is not a man more attracted to women than myself. I fear that if I saw the Banu asfar women, I’d not be able to restrain myself!’ ‘The Messenger of God (SAAS) turned away from him, saying, ‘I excuse you then.’” (The Life of the Prophet Muhammed (‘Al-Sira al-Nabawiyya’) [Translated by Professor Trevor Le Gassick, Garnet Publishing – Copyright 2000, The Center for Muslim Contribution To civilization], by Ibn Kathir, volume 4, page 2 – 3)

      This is also verified in Sirah al-Halabiyyah:

      “The Byzantines (Ar-Rum, the ‘Romans’) were called Banu Asfar because they were descendants of Rum ibn Al-Ais Ibn Ishaq the Prophet of Allah. He was called al-Asfar because HIS SKIN HAD A YELLOWISH TONE (Asfar yellow). Or it was said that it was his father, Al-Ais, who was yellowish in COLOUR. (As-seerah Al-Halabiyyah, 3/150) “ (Atlas on the Prophet’s Biography – Places, Nations, Landmarks (Al-sirah Al-Nabawiyah) [Darussallam, first edition, 2004] by Dr. Shawqi Abu Khalil, page 196)

      One of the earliest scholar’s (Ibn Al-Anbaari) expounds and tells us that they were called Banu Asfar because the Banu Asfar’s (Byzantines/Romans) land had been conquered by the Abyssinians (Africans). When the Abyssinians conquered the land they intermarried with the Romans (Byzantines) and had ‘yellow-skinned’ children i.e., mixed race:

      An-Nawawi may Allaah have mercy upon him said: “The Banu Asfar are the Romans. Ibn Al-Anbaari held that they were known as the Banu Al-Asfar (children of the the yellow one) because an ABYSSINIAN ARMY ONCE CONQUERED THEIR LAND AND SOME ABYSSINIAN MEN MARRIED ROMAN WOMEN WHO GAVE BIRTH TO YELLOW-SKINNED CHILDREN WITH THE DARKNESS OF ABYSSINIANS and the whiteness of the Romans. …” (Fatwa – online source)
      https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/08/01/banu-asfar-jadd-b-qays-and-the-blonde-women-claim/

      THUS WE SEE THE MISSIONARIES CLAIMING THAT THE BANU ASFAR “BLONDE” ARE OUTRIGHT LIES. BANU ASFAR WERE BROWN, MIXED RACE. THE REPORTS EVEN REFER TO THE SKIN COLOUR.

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    • WHO LET THE DOGS OUT! Muzzle time. First, let me prove that it is his god who loves raping women.

      BEGIN
      For instance, the following verse permits Muslim men (which includes Muhammad himself) to sleep with married women whom they have taken captive:

      Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath God ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property, – desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and God is All-knowing, All-wise. S. 4:24 Y. Ali

      Tragically, this did not remain a mere abstraction but was readily put into practice by Muhammad’s sexually craved jihadists:

      Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa’id al Khadri: O Abu Sa’id, did you hear Allah’s Messenger mentioning al-‘azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah’s Messenger on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing ‘azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Messenger, and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3371)

      And:

      Abu Said al-Khudri said: The apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, ‘And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess’. That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Volume 2, Number 2150)

      This same narration is found in all of the major hadith collections:

      Chapter 36. What Has Been Related (About A Man) Who Captures A Slave Woman That Has A Husband, Is It Lawful For Him To Have Relations With Her?

      1132. Abu Sa‘eed Al-Khudri narrated: We got some captives on the day of Awtas, and they had husbands among their people. They mentioned that to the Messenger of Allah, so the following was revealed: And women who are already married, except those whom your right hands possess. (Hasan) (English Translation of Jami‘ At-Tirmidhi, Compiled by Imam Hafiz Abu ‘Eisa Mohammad Ibn ‘Eisa At-Tirmidhi, From Hadith No. 544 to 1204, translated by Abu Khaliyl (USA), ahadith edited and referenced by Hafiz Tahir Zubair ‘Ali Za’i [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, First Edition: November 2007], Volume 2, p. 502; underline emphasis ours)

      And:

      1137. Jabir bin ‘Abdullah narrated: “We practiced ‘Azl while the Qur’an was being revealed.” (Sahih)

      (Abu ‘Eisa said:) The Hadith of Jabir is a Hasan Sahih Hadith. It has been reported from him through other routes.

      There are those among the people of knowledge, among the Companions of the Prophet and others, who permitted ‘Azl. Malik bin Anas said: “The permission of the free woman is to be requested for ‘Azl, while the slave woman’s permission need not be requested.” (Ibid., Chapter 39. What Has Been related About ‘Azl, p. 507)

      Finally:

      (3) 3016. Abu Sa‘eed Al-Khudri said: “On the Day of Awtas, we captured some women who had husbands among the idolaters. SO SOME OF THE MEN DISLIKED THAT, so Allah, Most High, revealed: ‘And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess….’” (Sahih)

      [Abu ‘Eisa said:] This Hadith is Hasan.

      (4) 3017. Abu Sa‘eed Al-Khudri said: “we captured some women on the Day of Awtas and they had husbands among their people. That was mentioned to the Messenger of Allah so Allah revealed: ‘…And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess….” (Sahih)

      [Abu ‘Eisa said:] This Hadith is Hasan.

      This is how it was reported by Ath-Thawri, from ‘Uthman Al-Batti, from Abu Al-Khalil, from Abu Sa‘eed Al-Khudri from the Prophet and it is similar. “From Abu ‘Alqamah” is not in this Hadith and I do not know of anyone who mentioned Abu ‘Alqamah in this Hadith except in what Hammam mentioned from Qatadah. Abu Al-Khalil’s name is Salih bin Abi Mariam. (Jami‘ At-Tirmidhi, Volume 5, From Hadith No. 2606 to 3290, Chapter 4. Regarding Surat An-Nisa’, pp. 331-332; capital and underline emphasis ours)

      Thus, Muhammad and his deity condoned and encouraged men to virtually rape their female captives whether they were married or not.

      Now unless this taqiyyist wants us to believe that such women whose families had just been murdered and (in some cases) whose husbands were still alive would actually consent to having sex with their captors, it should be apparent that the Islamic deity is actually permitting, and even encouraging, rape and adultery in his so-called holy book!

      How truly sad and tragic for these women that Muhammad and his god did not share the shame and concern of the jihadists regarding the highly unethical nature of raping captives whose husbands were still alive. Instead, Allah and his messenger rushed to justify such a perverted and heinous crime!

      Contrast this filth with what Deuteronomy teaches concerning the issue of female captives:

      “When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her AS YOUR WIFE. Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.” Deuteronomy 21:10-14

      Here we see that, instead of permitting men to rape captive women, the Holy Bible forces the Israelites to marry them if they wanted to have sex with them, and then letting them go free in case of a divorce. This means that the Holy Bible is actually dignifying these women by not allowing them to be treated the way Allah and his “messenger” had them treated, namely like animals. Now this is a command which predates the Quran by approximately 2200 years!

      To say that such an injunction was truly shocking and revolutionary for that time period would be a wild understatement, just as the following commentaries illustrate:

      “The law focuses on the rights of the woman by stating that the man who marries a female prisoner of war and subsequently becomes dissatisfied with her, for whatever reasons, is not permitted to reduce her to slavery. Such a woman had legal rights in ancient Israel, and moral obligations ensue from the fact that the man initiated a sexual relationship with her. Perhaps the most significant conclusion to draw from this text is the respect for the personhood of a captured woman. A primary concern in the laws of Deut 21–25 is for protecting the poor and vulnerable in society from exploitation on the part of the powerful.” (Duane L. Christensen, Word Biblical Commentary: Deuteronomy 21:10–34:12 [Thomas Nelson Publishers, Nashville, TN 2002], Volume 6b, p. 475; bold emphasis ours)

      “Throughout the ancient Mediterranean world, captive women of vanquished peoples were assumed to be the due sexual prerogative of the victors. This law exceptionally seeks to provide for the human rights of the woman who falls into this predicament… the verb ‘inah is also sometimes used for rape, and its employment here astringently suggests that the sexual exploitation of a captive woman, even in a legally sanctioned arrangement of concubinage, is equivalent to rape.” (Robert Alter, The Five Books of Moses: A Translation with Commentary [W. W. Norton & Company, 2008], p. 982; bold emphasis ours)

      “The instructions given for the treatment of female captives in Deuteronomy 21:10-14 take it for granted that a conquering army have the right to dispose of the conquered population in any way that it wishes. It is hard for those coming from a different cultural context to see this as anything other than appalling, but this approach would have been unquestioned within the ancient Near East, and we have to see these instructions within that setting. What is remarkable is that although the woman may have had no choice in the matter–the soldier who fancied her has every right to make her this wife–nevertheless her identity as a human being is at least to some extent recognized. She is not to be thrown into the new situation but must be allowed time to mourn for her parents and her past life… Within these oppressive situations the laws are geared to provide at least a level of protection for the women involved… Women who were bought as wives or captured in war and taken as wives could not be sold as slaves or even neglected (Ex 21.11; Deut 21.14).” (The IVP Women’s Bible Commentary, eds. Catherine Clark Kroeger & Mary J. Evans [InterVarsity Press, Downers Grove, IL 2002], pp. 100, 102)

      “The space given for weeping is not primarily a period of mourning (though it is perhaps to be assumed that the woman’s father has died in the herem; 20:13, 15). Rather, it is given in compassionate consideration of the large adjustment she must make, and the accompanying trauma. It is an acknowledgment, too, that her former life is ended and a new life is to begin (cf. Ps. 45:10). The hints of compassion breaking through the brutality of the age reflect an awareness of divine compassion, however limited by the thought climate of the times.” (Ian Cairns, Word and Presence: A Commentary on the book of Deuteronomy (International Theological Commentary), [William B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, MI 1992], p. 189; bold emphasis ours)

      For more on the humanitarian nature of this OT passage we recommend the following article: A note on the humanitarian character of Deut 21.10-14.

      Unfortunately, there’s more to the story. The so-called sound ahadith report that Muhammad taught that Allah has predestined the amount of adultery a person must necessarily commit:

      Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas:
      I did not see anything so resembling minor sins as what Abu Huraira said from the Prophet, who said, “Allah has written for the son of Adam his INEVITABLE share of adultery whether he is aware of it or not: The adultery of the eye is the looking (at something which is sinful to look at), and the adultery of the tongue is to utter (what it is unlawful to utter), and the innerself wishes and longs for (adultery) and the private parts turn that into reality or refrain from submitting to the temptation.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 77, Number 609)

      Verily Allah has fixed the very portion of adultery which a man will indulge in, and which he OF NECESSITY MUST COMMIT (or there would be no escape from it). (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6421; see also Number 6422)

      In other words, these Muslims were only carrying out the very sexual filth which their god had predestined for them!
      END

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    • Now let me shame this shameless flyingmutalover for not learning his lesson. He is just as dishonorable as his profit was.

      BEGIN
      To now further add insult to injury, let me further break down Deuteronomy 21:10-14 to show how this passage condemns Muhammad as an adulterer and rapist:

      “When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and attracted to her, YOU MAY TAKE HER AS YOUR WIFE. Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband AND SHE SHALL BE YOUR WIFE. If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her (innitah).” Deuteronomy 21:10-14

      The word innitah comes from anah. Now let us see how other versions render this word in v. 14:

      “But if you aren’t pleased with her, you must send her away as she wishes. You are not allowed to sell her for money or treat her as a slave because you have HUMILIATED her.” Common English Bible

      “It shall be, if you are not pleased with her, then you shall let her go [c]wherever she wishes; but you shall certainly not sell her for money, you shall not [d]mistreat her, because you have HUMBLED her.” New American Standard Bible

      But if you are not satisfied with her, you shall let her go free and not sell her for money. You must not treat her as a slave, since you have DISHONORED her. New Revised Standard Version

      And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not deal with her as a slave, because thou hast HUMBLED her. Jewish Publication Society 1917

      And it will be, if you do not desire her, then you shall send her away wherever she wishes, but you shall not sell her for money. You shall not keep her as a servant, because you have AFFLICTED her. Complete Jewish Bible with Rashi Commentary

      The reason why these versions rendered the word anah as dishonored, humbled, afflicted etc. is because the word is not being used here in the sense of forcing the captive woman to have sex, but of dishonoring or humiliating her by divorcing her and sending her on her way. That this word can and does mean refer to dishonoring someone, and not forcing them to have sex, is easily seen from the way this word is used in the following verses:

      “This shall be a perpetual statute for you so that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall HUMBLE yourselves, and do no work of any kind, whether it is the native citizen or the stranger who sojourns among you. For on that day the priest shall make atonement for you to cleanse you, so that you may be clean from all your sins before the Lord. It shall be a sabbath, a solemn rest for you, and you shall HUMBLE yourselves. It is a perpetual statute. The priest, who is anointed and consecrated to minister as a priest in the place of his father, shall make atonement, and shall put on the linen garments, the holy garments. And he shall make atonement for the Holy Sanctuary, for the tent of meeting, and for the altar, and he shall make atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation.” Leviticus 16:29-33

      “The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be the Day of Atonement. It shall be a holy convocation to you, and you shall HUMBLE yourselves, and offer a food offering made by fire to the Lord. You shall do no work on that same day, for it is the Day of Atonement to make atonement for you before the Lord your God. For whoever is not HUMBLED on that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people. And whoever does any work in that same day, that person I will destroy from among his people. You shall do no manner of work. It shall be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings. It shall be to you a sabbath of complete rest, and you shall afflict your souls. On the ninth day of the month starting at the evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.” Leviticus 23:16-32

      “You will have a holy assembly on the tenth day of this seventh month, and you will AFFLICT yourselves. You will not do any work on it.” Numbers 29:7

      “You must carefully keep all the commandments that I am commanding you today, so that you may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the Lord swore to your fathers. You must remember that the Lord your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to HUMBLE you, and to prove you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not. He HUMBLED you and let you suffer hunger, and fed you with manna, which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that He might make you know that man does not live by bread alone; but man lives by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of the Lord. Your clothing did not wear out on you, nor did your feet swell these forty years. You must also consider in your heart that, as a man disciplines his son, so the Lord your God disciplines you… who fed you in the wilderness with manna, which your fathers did not know, that He might HUMBLE you and that He might prove you, to do good for you in the end. ” Deuteronomy 8:1-5, 16

      Thus, this text doesn’t permit Israelite men to rape captive women like Muhammad’s god allowed his profit and jihadi thugs. Rather, it is telling them they can only have sex with women whom they have taken captive BY FIRST MARRYING THEM! Even the very translation used by this demented liar AFFIRMS THAT THE ISRAELITES HAD TO MARRY THE CAPTIVE WOMEN, AND WERE TO SET THEM FREE AND NOT SELL THEM AS SLAVES IF THEY ENDED UP DIVORCING THEM, UNLIKE YOUR WICKED PROFIT WHO NOT ONLY RAPED THEM WITHOUT MARRYING THEM BUT THEN SOLD THEM OFF AFTER HE GOT DONE VIOLATING THEM!

      10 “When the Lord your God gives you victory in battle and you take prisoners, 11 you may see among them a beautiful woman that you like AND WANT TO MARRY HER. 12 take her your home, where she will shave her head, cut her fingernails, 13 and change her clothes. She is to stay in your home and mourn for her parents for a month; after that, YOU MAY MARRY HER. 14 Later, if you no longer want her, you are to let her go free. since you forced her to have intercourse with you, YOU CANNOT TREAT HER AS A SLAVE AND SELL HER.

      OUCH!

      MORE IMPORTANTLY, YOU CANNOT QUOTE A SINGLE VERSE FROM THE BIBLE WHICH SAYS THAT ISRAELITES OR BELIEVES CAN RAPE MARRIED WOMEN THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN CAPTIVE, UNLIKE YOUR WICKED PROFIT!

      DOUBLE OUCH!!!!

      You could only wish that your profit had shown the same decency and civility towards captive women that this passage from Deuteronomy does, a passage which predates your filthy Quran by approximately 2200 years!

      Like I said, keep producing your trash and filth and keep watching hundreds of thousands leave your wicked and filthy deen and turn to the glory of Christ, Muhammad’s God and Judge!

      With that said give me a time and date when you can come to my paltak room so we can compare Deuteronomy 21:10-14 with the filth of Quran 4:24 and your profit’s implementation of it so all can see how well you do defending your garbage.
      END

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    • Now let me further humiliate flyingibnmuta by showing that he really has no discussing even his own wicked religion since he is an ignoramus when it comes to what scholars say about weak hadiths. Enjoy!

      1) A Muslim may interject at this point and argue that the hadith from Ibn Majah is classified as Da’if, meaning weak, and therefore cannot be used to affirm the importance that blood sacrifices play in procuring forgiveness of sins. The Muslim who would raise this objection is either exposing his dishonesty or his ignorance of the consensus of Islamic scholarly opinion concerning the use of so-called “weak” narrations.

      In the first place a narrative deemed to weak means that it actually passed the test, being deemed reliable enough to be included within the Islamic corpus. For a more detailed discussion we recommend viewing the following discussion by noted Muslim scholar Hamza Yusuf, “The hadith is weak (daief) brother!” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COrxzfd5d2k).

      Secondly, the majority of Muslim scholars agreed that weak narrations can be employed to encourage good deeds and good behavior, but not used to establish legal rulings (though not all hadith scholars accepted this last point):

      a) From the Epilogue of hafiz al-Sakhawi’s
      “al-Qawl al-badi` fi al-salat `ala al-habib al-shafi`”

      [The Admirable Doctrine Concerning the Invocation upon the Beloved Intercessor]

      Shaykh al-Islam Abu Zakariyya al-Nawawi (rad.ia-LLahu `anhu) said in the ‘Adhkar’:

      “The ulama among the experts in hadith and the experts in law and others have said: it is permissible and (also) recommended that the religious practice (al-`amal) concerning good deeds and good character (al-fadâ’il), encouragement to good and discouragement from evil (al-targhib wa al-tarhib) be based (even) on weak hadith (bi al-hadith al- da`îf) as long as it is not forged (mawdu`)…

      As for legal rulings (ahkâm) such as what is permitted and what is forbidden, or the modalities of trade, marriage, divorce and other than that: one’s practice is not based upon anything other than sound (sahih) or fair (hasan) hadith, except as a precaution in some matter related to one of the above, for example, if a weak hadith was cited about the reprehensibility (karahat) of certain kinds of sales or marriages. In such cases what is recommended (al-mustahabb) is to avoid such sales and marriages, but it is not obligatory (la yajib).”

      I say: It has been reported from Imam Ahmad that one may practice on the basis of the weak hadith if there is no other hadith to that effect and also if there is no hadith that contradicts it. In one narration he is reported to say: “I like weak hadith better than men’s opinions.”

      Ibn Hazm has similarly mentioned that all Hanafi scholars unanimously agree that the school of Abu Hanifah (rad.ia-LLahu `anhu) holds that weak hadith is preferable to opinion (ra’y) and analogy (qiyâs). Ahmad was asked about someone finding himself in a country with, on the one hand, a memorizer of hadith (sâhib hadîth) who does not know the sound from the unsound, and, on the other, an authority in opinion (sâhib ra’y): who should he consult? He replied: “Let him consult the memorizer of hadith sâhib hadîth and not the authority in opinion (sâhib ra’y).”…

      Abu `Abd Allah Ibn Mandah reported from Abu Dawud, the author of the ‘Sunan’ and a student of Imam Ahmad, that Abu Dawud used to cite the chain of transmission of a weak hadith if he did not find other than it under that particular heading (bâb), and that he considered it stronger evidence than authorized opinion (ra’y al-rijâl).

      What emerges from this is that there are three diverging views:

      – No practice is based on weak hadith whatsoever (mutlaqan);
      – Practice is categorically (mutlaqan) based upon it if no other evidence is found under the same heading;
      – The majority of the scholars (al-jumhur) hold that it can be used as basis for practicing good deeds and achieving good character (yu`malu bihi fi al-fadâ’il) but not for legal rulings (dûna al-ahkâm). And God is the Granter of success.

      b) Translated from Muhammad Zaki Ibrahim in “Usul al-wusul”
      (Cairo: Azhar, 1984):

      If not proven to be forged, in which case there is absolutely no truth in it, the hadith da`îf (weak), although the pillars of veracity in it are not complete, nevertheless retains a part of truth.

      Imam Nawawi said:

      “The ulama among the muhaddithun…” [as quoted by Sakhawi above].

      I say: This is the principle adopted by the hadith master (hafiz) Ibn al-Salah, as well as what we know of the imams of hadith science among the early generations (salaf) such as Sufyan al-Thawri, Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Ibn `Uyaynah, Ibn al- Mubarak, Ibn Mahdi, and Ibn Ma`în… Al-Khatib al-Baghdadi devoted a chapter to that topic in his ‘Kifayah’.

      End of translated excerpts…

      I recapitulate the list of hadith masters who accept the use of hadeeth da`îf at the very least for religious practice related to ethics (fada’il al-a`mal) and in some cases even for legal rulings (Ahmad, Abu Dawud, and the entire Hanafi school), according to the above three sources (Sakhawi, Ibrahim, Keller):

      1- Nawawi
      2- Ibn al-Salah
      3- Sufyan al-Thawri
      4- Ahmad Ibn Hanbal
      5- Ibn `Uyaynah
      6- Ibn al-Mubarak
      7- Ibn Mahdi
      8- Ibn Ma`een (forgery specialist)
      9- al-Khatib al-Baghdadi in ‘al-Kifayah’, chapter entitled:
      “strictness with regard to ahadith pertaining to rulings
      and leniency with regard to those pertaining to virtuous actions”
      10- Bukhari as proven by his use of them in ‘al-Adab al- mufrad’
      11- Ali al-Qari (forgery specialist)
      12- Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani.
      13- Ibn Abd al-Barr in ‘al-Isaba’.
      14- Ibn al-Qayyim in ‘I`lam al-muwaqqi`een’.
      15- Sakhawi
      16- Abu Sa`eed al-`Ala’i (forgery specialist).
      17- Abu Dawud.
      18- Hanafi school…

      It is the Consensus of the Ulema that weak hadiths can be narrated and put into practice in Islam according to al-Bayhaqî, Ibn `Abd al-Barr, al-Nawawî, Ibn Taymiyya, al-Qârî, and `Alawî ibn `Abbâs al-Mâlikî in his manual al-Manhal al-Lat.îf fî Ma`rifat al-H.adîth, provided certain conditions are met.[4] Ibn al-Sâlah, al-Nawawî and al-`Irâqî’s sole conditions were that

      (1) the hadith be related to good deeds (fad.â’il al-a`mâl)
      without bearing on legal rulings and doctrine and

      (2) the hadith not be forged…

      The dissents reported from Imâm Muslim, Ibn Hazm, and Ibn al-`Arabî are inaccurate. The correct position of Imâm Muslim in the introduction to his Sahîh. is that he forbade the use of forgers and other abandoned narrators, not of truthful weak ones, in conformity with the position of Ahmad and the rest of the Salaf.[7]

      Muslim also says: “The sound reports from the trustworthy (thiqât) narrators and those whose reliability is convincing are more than that we should be forced to transmit reports from those who are not trustworthy and whose reliability is not convincing.” The difference is clear between saying we are not forced to use weak narrators and saying that one absolutely cannot transmit from them.

      A proof of this is his use of the weak narration from `Â’isha: “Treat people according to their ranks” and the fact that his strictness in narrators drops a notch or two in the hadîths of raqâ’iq or fadâ’il al-a`mâl in the Sahîh, as in the case of Shaddâd ibn Sa`îd Abû Talhâ al-Râsibî or al-Walîd ibn Abî Walîd.[8]

      The correct position of Ibn al-`Arabî is as he states himself regarding a certain weak hadîth: “Its chain is unknown, but it is preferable to put it into practice…”[9] As for Ibn Hazm’s statement against the use of weak narrations in absolute terms:[10] he elsewhere states preferring the use of weak hadîth over the use of juridical opinion (ra’î), as does Ibn al-`Arabî himself.[11] (GF Haddad and Muhammad Sarkisian, Validity Of Weak Hadith)

      Hopefully the muzzle shuts him up permanently.

      Like

    • You do truly follow your Lord and saviour Paul who TAUGHT YOU RO DECEIVE AND LIE in order to attract people to Christianity,
      https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/11/28/1-corinthians-9-apostle-pauls-missionary-deception-taqiyya/

      The report we are DISCUSSING does NOT FALL IN VIRTUES. Just read how MISREPRESENT AND LIE about what the scholars said:

      Shaykh al-Islam Abu Zakariyya al-Nawawi (rad.ia-LLahu `anhu) said in the ‘Adhkar’:
      “The ulama among the experts in hadith and the experts in law and others have said: IT IS PERMISSIBLE and (also) recommended that the RELIGIOUS PRACTICE (al-`amal) CONCERNING GOOD DEEDS AND GOOD CHARACTER (AL-FADÂ’IL), ENCOURAGEMENT TO GOOD AND DISCOURAGEMENT FROM EVIL (al-targhib wa al-tarhib) be based (even) on weak hadith (bi al-hadith al- da`îf) as long as it is not forged (mawdu`).
      As for legal rulings (ahkâm) such as what is permitted and what is forbidden, or the modalities of trade, marriage, divorce and other than that: one’s practice is not based upon anything other than sound (sahih) or fair (hasan) hadith, except as a precaution in some matter related to one of the above, for example, if a weak hadith was cited about the reprehensibility (karahat) of certain kinds of sales or marriages. In such cases what is recommended (al-mustahabb) is to avoid such sales and marriages, but it is not obligatory (la yajib).”
      http://www.livingislam.org/n/vwh_e.html

      So the scholars were discussing on VIRTUES, if a Hadith for example, said, be good to your mother, or speak a good word to a human being, even if the Hadith is weak it is accepted because IT BRINGS GOOD, The tafsir we are discussing HAS NOTHING TO DO with virtuous and this rejected.

      Not only is it weak but some of the people are called LIARS and REJECTED, I see why you accept their narration because it goes in line with what your LORD Paul taught you to believe i.e., SPREAD LIES AND DECEPTION for Christianity:
      https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/11/28/1-corinthians-9-apostle-pauls-missionary-deception-taqiyya/

      Furthermore, they say if ‘weak Hadith has a :LIAR it is rejected:

      “The conditions for religious practice
      based on weak hadith are three:
      This is unanimously agreed upon (muttafaqun `alayh):
      1 – That the weakness must not be very strong (ghayr shadid). This EXCLUDES THOSE AHADITH SINGLY RECORDED BY LIARS OR THOSE ACCUSED OF LYING, and those who make gross mistakes.

      Now compare that with LYING report you try pin on Muhammed:

      And lastly:

      Yahyah bin Abid Hamid al-Hamani, al-Dhahabi commenting about him said, “memorizer hafiz but MUNKAR (REJECTED, DENOUNCED) and WEAK IN HADITH”

      Ibn Abi Ma’id verified that and others did so, and Ahmad Ibn Hanbal said: HE USED TO LIE in public, and Nasai said he is “WEAK” (2) (al-Muqni Fi al-Du’afa volume 2 page 522) and he made more exploration about him in Tahdeb(3) (Ibid volume 11 page 245)

      Not only are Shamoun’s citations weak, but he REPORTS FROM LIARS
      https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/07/30/muhammed-blonde-women-and-quran-949/

      Could you now show us which scholars said that the lying Tafsir you quoted falls into the category of ‘VIRTUOUS?? Go ahead show us the scholars name 😉

      Could also show us which scholars said that THEY ACCEPT LIARS in reports like your Lord paul does???

      Liked by 1 person

    • As for Quran 4:24 and Awtas incident:

      “And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise. – Quran 4:24

      This has been debunked in detail here:
      https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/06/23/what-happened-to-the-captive-women-in-awtas-incident/

      Shammy-shame-shame has no problem with his Jesus (God) allowing and permitting (BIBLE) his soldiers to penetrate (rape) pre-pubescent girls, yet has the cheek to talk about 4:24:

      TWO accurate translations which clearly show that the passage only speaks about ‘female children’ are as follows:

      Jubilee Bible 2000 – “But all the FEMALE CHILDREN children that have not known a man by lying with him keep alive for YOURSELVES.” – Numbers 31:18

      Webster’s Bible – “Translation But all the FEMALE CHILDREN that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for YOURSELVES.” – Numbers 31:18

      https://discover-the-truth.com/2015/10/29/child-marriage-in-the-bible/

      Christian scholars say MARRIAGE with pre-pubescent was allowed:

      Whedon’s Commentary on the Bible:
      Verse 17-18.
      The little ones — The object of the command to kill every male was to exterminate the whole nation, the cup of whose iniquity was full. For the righteousness of the mode see Joshua 6:21, note. Every woman who might possibly have been engaged in the licentious worship of Peor was to share the fate of the male children, to preserve Israel from all taint of that abomination. The pure maidens could be incorporated into Israel without peril to the national religion. Joshua 6:23-25, notes. They could not be treated as concubines, since the law against fornication was in full force, (Deuteronomy 22:25-29,) but THEY COULD BE LAWFULLY MARRIED TO THEIR CAPTORS (DEUTERONOMY 21:10-14).

      Peter Pett’s Commentary on the Bible:
      Numbers 31:18
      ‘But all the women-children, who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.’ But the young women children were a different matter. THEY COULD BE TAKEN IN MARRIAGE or as servants and would expect to accept the religion of their new husbands or masters. They would gradually be merged into Israel. Compare DEUTERONOMY 21:10-14. They would not feel the same responsibility for blood vengeance which was mainly incumbent on the males.[2]

      Notice both commentaries direct readers to READ deuteronomy 21:14:

      Deuteronomy 21:10-14 Good News Translation (GNT)
      “10 When the Lord your God gives you victory in battle and you take prisoners, 11 you may see among them a beautiful woman that you like and want to marry. 12 TAKE HER to your home, where she will shave her head, cut her fingernails, 13 and change her clothes. She is to stay in your home and mourn for her parents for a month; after that, you may marry her. 14 Later, if you no longer want her, you are to let her go free. Since you FORCED HER TO HAVE INTERCOURSE (ANAH) WITH YOU, you cannot treat her as a slave and sell her.”

      There you have it, Jesus, who is God of the Old Testament allowed marriage and the rape of pre-pubescent girls. Deuteronomy is about RAPE, this fact is referenced in the following five articles in the LINK:

      https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/08/01/rape-in-ezekiel-2211-and-deuteronomy-2114/

      Let me say that word “Ouch” 😉 :p

      Liked by 1 person

    • Shammy-shame-shame thinks he debunked things. You didnt rebut anything 😉

      Let’s look at the Hebrew word ‘anah’ (inna) in relation to Deuteronomy 21:14,

      Deuteronomy 21:10-14 Good News Translation (GNT)
      “10 When the Lord your God gives you victory in battle and you take prisoners, 11 you may see among them a beautiful woman that you like and want to marry. 12 TAKE HER to your home, where she will shave her head, cut her fingernails, 13 and change her clothes. She is to stay in your home and mourn for her parents for a month; after that, you may marry her. 14 Later, if you no longer want her, you are to let her go free. Since you FORCED HER TO HAVE INTERCOURSE (ANAH) WITH YOU, you cannot treat her as a slave and sell her.”

      The different translations for Deuteronomy 21:14 do not give an accurate portrayal of what happened to the slave-women. The only accurate translation for the verse is from the GNT translation. Nearly every other translation make it out that the slave-women captured in warfare were happily jumping into another man’s bed. Same men (soldiers) who murdered her husband, father, and brothers.

      how do we know ANAH means RAPE. Well let’s look at other verses where the exact same word is used:
      https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/eze/22/11/t_conc_824011

      Translations for Ezekiel 22:11

      Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
      “11 One man commits a terrible sin against his own neighbor’s wife. Another man has sex with his daughter-in-law and makes her unclean. Another man RAPES his father’s daughter—his very own sister.” – Ezekiel 22:11

      International Children’s Bible (ICB)
      “11 One person in you does a hated act with his neighbor’s wife. Another has shamefully violated his daughter-in-law. And another RAPES his half sister.” – Ezekiel 22:11

      New Living Translation (NLT)
      “11 Within your walls live men who commit adultery with their neighbors’ wives, who defile their daughters-in-law, or who RAPE their own sisters.” – Ezekiel 22:11

      Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
      “11 And ish hath committed to’evah with his neighbor’s isha; and another hath lewdly made tameh his kallah (daughter-in-law); and another in thee hath RAPED his achot, his bat aviv.” – Ezekiel 22:11

      New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
      “11 There are those in you who do abominable things with their neighbors’ wives, men who defile their daughters-in-law by incest, men who COERCE THEIR SISTERS TO INTERCOURSE, the daughters of their own fathers.” – Ezekiel 22:11

      New Century Version (NCV)
      “11 One man in you does a hateful act with his neighbor’s wife, while another has shamefully made his daughter-in-law unclean sexually. And another FORCES HIS HALF SISTER TO HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS with him.” – Ezekiel 22:11

      Expanded Bible (EXB)
      “11 One man in you does a ·hateful [detestable; abominable] act with his neighbor’s wife, while another has shamefully ·made his daughter-in-law unclean sexually [L defiled his daughter-in-law; C ritually]. And another FORCES HIS HALF SISTER TO HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS [L violates his father’s daughter] with him [C all forbidden in the Law; Lev. 18:9, 15, 20].” – Ezekiel 22:11

      Like

    • Here is a part 2, that Deuteronomy 21:14 sanctions/permits rape from the Bible

      Here are different translation for the exact word ‘anah’,

      One of the verses that has been downplayed by Christian apologists as not endorsing or approving ‘rape’ is Deuteronomy 21:10-14:

      Deuteronomy 21:10-14 Good News Translation (GNT)
      10 “When the Lord your God gives you victory in battle and you take prisoners, 11 you may see among them a beautiful woman that you like and want to marry. 12 TAKE HER to your home, where she will shave her head, cut her fingernails, 13 and change her clothes. She is to stay in your home and mourn for her parents for a month; after that, you may marry her. 14 Later, if you no longer want her, you are to let her go free. Since YOU FORCED HER TO HAVE INTERCOURSE (ANAH) WITH YOU, you cannot treat her as a slave and sell her.

      They claim that the word ‘anah’ used here doesn’t actually mean ‘ rape’ (forced intercourse). How can we prove that RAPE DID TAKE PLACE? Let’s read another translation for a different verse (with the exact word (anah)):

      Lamentations 5:11 has the Hebrew word ‘anah’ same one that is in Deuteronomy 21:14
      https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/lam/5/11/t_conc_802011

      Different TRANSLATIONS for Lamentations 5:11
      https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/07/29/deuteronomy-211014-hebrew-word-anah-means-rape/

      Translations for Lamentations 5:11

      New Living Translation
      “Our enemies RAPE THE WOMEN in Jerusalem and the young girls in all the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      English Standard Version (ESV)
      “Women are RAPED in Zion, young women in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)
      “Women are RAPED in Zion, young women in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
      “Women are RAPED in Zion, girls in the cities of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      International Standard Version (ISV)
      “They have RAPED women in Zion, young women in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      NET Bible
      “They RAPED women in Zion, virgins in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      GOD’S WORD® Translation
      “Women in Zion are RAPED, so are the girls in the cities of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      Common English Bible (CEB)
      “Women have been RAPED in Zion, young women in Judah’s cities.” – Lamentations 5:11

      Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
      “They have RAPED the women of Tziyon, virgins in the cities of Y’hudah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      Contemporary English Version (CEV)
      “On Zion and everywhere in Judah our wives and daughters are BEING RAPED.” – Lamentations 5:11

      Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
      “The enemy raped the women of Zion. They RAPED THE WOMEN in the cities of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      Expanded Bible (EXB)
      “The enemy [L They] ·ABUSED [VIOLATED; RAPED] the women ·of Jerusalem [L in Zion; C the location of the Temple] and the ·girls [L virgins] in the ·cities [towns] of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      Good News Translation (GNT)
      “Our wives have BEEN RAPED on Mount Zion itself; in every Judean village our daughters have been forced to submit.” – Lamentations 5:11

      International Children’s Bible (ICB)
      “The ENEMY RAPED the women of Jerusalem and the girls in the cities of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      Lexham English Bible (LEB)
      “They RAPED women in Zion, young women[a] in the cities of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      Living Bible (TLB)
      “They RAPE the women of Jerusalem and the girls in Judah’s cities.” – Lamentations 5:11

      The Message (MSG)
      “Our wives were RAPED in the streets in Zion, and our virgins in the cities of Judah.” Lamentations 5:11

      Names of God Bible (NOG)
      “Women in Zion are RAPED, so are the girls in the cities of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
      “Women are RAPED in Zion, young women in the cities of Judah…” – Lamentations 5:11

      New English Translation (NET Bible)
      “They RAPED women in Zion, virgins in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
      “Women are RAPED in Zion, virgins in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised (NRSVA)
      “Women are RAPED in Zion, virgins in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition
      “Women are RAPED in Zion, virgins in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

      The Voice (VOICE)
      “In the place where God should be— Zion and the surrounding towns of Judah— Women, young and old alike, are BRUTALLY RAPED and violated.” – Lamentations 5:11

      EVEN THE COMMENTARIES AGREE THAT ANAH MEANS RAPE:

      Bridgeway Bible Commentary:

      Conditions in Judah are terrible. The people have to search the barren country regions for food, and in doing so they risk death from desert bandits (9-10). Judean WOMEN ARE RAPED, former leaders are tortured, and children are forced to work like slaves (11-13). The old way of life has gone, and with it has gone all celebration and rejoicing (14-15). People everywhere are unhappy, discouraged and ashamed. They acknowledge that their sin has brought all this upon them (16-18). (Bridgeway Bible Commentary – Lamentations 5:11 – online source)

      Coffman’s Commentaries on the Bible:

      “They ravished the women … the virgins of the cities of Judah” (Lamentations 5:11). This is an accompanying vice of warfare that is just as much a part of modern wars as it was in antiquity. Nothing is more terrible and disgusting than the WHOLESALE RAPE of the women (all of them) by an army of enemies. The bestiality of wicked men unrestrained by any outside force is the utmost in depravity.
      (Coffman’s Commentaries on the Bible – Lamentations 5:11 – online source)

      Expository Notes of Dr. Thomas Constable:

      “The enemy had RAPED THE WOMEN and girls in Jerusalem and Judah. Respected princes had experienced the most humiliating deaths, and the enemy gave no respect to Judah”s elderly. Since Nebuchadnezzar evidently did not torture his victims (cf. Jeremiah 52:10-11; Jeremiah 52:24-27), it may be that the Chaldeans strung up the princes by their hands-after they had died-to dishonor them (cf. Deuteronomy 21:22-23). [Note: Keil, 2:451.]” (Expository Notes of Dr. Thomas Constable – Lamentations 5:11 – Online source)

      Chuck Smith Bible Commentary:

      “They ravished the women in Zion, and the maids in the cities of Judah ( Lamentations 5:11 ).
      The enemies had come in. It must have been a horrible thing. The fathers to see their wives and their young daughters ravished by the enemy, RAPED and all and then murdered.” (Chuck Smith Bible Commentary – Lamentations 5:11 – online source)

      American Old Testament scholar and the William Marcellus McPheeters Professor Emerita of Old Testament at Columbia Theological Seminary – Kathleen M. O’Connor:

      “Women’s history
      As symbolic figures, women convey mixed messages in Lamentations, but when the book speaks of real women, it tells of their history in painful and illuminating ways. The book brings into the open hidden victims of war who suffer long after the war’s end. Some verses mention women’s sufferings alongside those of men and other social groups. Young women have gone into captivity with young men (2:21). Young girls and elders grieve over Zion’s destruction (2:10). Other verses attend specifically to the plight of women. The male speaker grieves over ‘the fate of all the young women in my city’ (3:11). ‘WOMEN ARE RAPED in Zion’ (5:11).” (Women’s Bible Commentary: Expanded Edition [Edited by Carol Ann Newsom, Sharon H. Ringe, WJK – Westminister – John Knox Press Louisville – Kentucky, 1998], by Kathleen M. O’Connor, page 190)

      Dr. Charles H. Dyer:

      “The first group mentioned who suffered the horrors of foreign occupation were the women of Jerusalem (Zion) and the virgins … of Judah. Women who survived the Babylonian assault on their cities were mercilessly RAPED BY THE SADISTIC SOLDIERS. In a scene of savage brutality, repeated by many conquering armies throughout history, the victors went on a wanton spree of lustful revenge against defenceless women.” (The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition Of the Scriptures By Dallas Seminary Faculty – Old Testament [Editors John F. Walvoord, Roy B. Zuck, 1983] by Charles H. Dyer, page 1222)

      Professor of Old Testament David L. Petersen:

      The elegant literary construction stands in constrast with the devastating destruction: much will be violated. The book of Lamentations, which reflects the fall of Jerusalem, refers to all three elements, the destruction of the city, presumably its walls (2:8); plundering (1:18) and violation of dwelling places (2:2); WOMEN RAPED (5:11).” (Zechariah 9-14 and Malachi: A Commentary [Westminister – John Knox Press Louisville – Kentucky, 1995], by David L. Petersen, page 141)

      Professor David W. Chapman:

      “The context of 5:11-14 concentrates on the horrors that women and men faced in the exilic period. After speaking of the rape RAPE OF THE WOMEN IN 5:11, the two verses above mention in descending social order the fate of the men (a similar order is reiterated in 5:14). The Hebrew perfect verbs are translated above with the English simple past; however, many modern interpreters (going back to Lam 5:1) understand these are current afflictions for the writer. (Ancient Jewish and Christian Perceptions of Crucifixion [Wissenschaftliche Untersuchungen zum Neuen Testament, 2. Reihe – Mohr Siebeck, Tubingen, Germany, 2008], by David W. Chapman, page 158)

      There you have it Shammy-shame-shame , your god you worship allows rape, and forced sexual intercourse.

      Enjoy reading your Babble :@ 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

    • Here is a part 3 on Deuteronomy 21:14 where Jesus (god) Shammy-sham-shame worships permits/sanctions/allows rape:

      The Bible, Jesus (God) of the Old Testament allowed rape of slaves. The GNT Bible accurately describes what happened to the women:

      Deuteronomy 21:10-14 Good News Translation (GNT)
      “10 When the Lord your God gives you victory in battle and you take prisoners, 11 you may see among them a beautiful woman that you like and want to marry. 12 TAKE HER to your home, where she will shave her head, cut her fingernails, 13 and change her clothes. She is to stay in your home and mourn for her parents for a month; after that, you may marry her. 14 Later, if you no longer want her, you are to let her go free. Since you FORCED HER TO HAVE INTERCOURSE (ANAH) WITH YOU, you cannot treat her as a slave and sell her.”

      How do we know ANAH is RAPE? Let’s read deuteronomy 22:29,
      https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/deu/22/29/t_conc_175029

      Different translations for Deuteronomy 22:29.

      Living Bible (TLB)
      “28-29 If a man RAPES A GIRL who is not engaged and is caught in the act, he must pay a fine[a] to the girl’s father and marry her; he may never divorce her.” – Deuteronomy 22:29

      The Message (MSG)
      “28-29 When a man comes upon a virgin who has never been engaged and grabs and RAPES HER and they are found out, the man who RAPED HER has to give her father fifty pieces of silver. He has to marry her because he took advantage of her. And he can never divorce her.” – Deuteronomy 22:29

      Names of God Bible (NOG)
      “29 the man who had sexual intercourse with her must give the girl’s father 1¼ pounds of silver, and she will become his wife. Since he RAPED HER, he can never divorce her as long as he lives.[a]” – Deuteronomy 22:29

      New English Translation (NET Bible)
      “29 The man who has RAPED HER must pay her father fifty shekels of silver and she must become his wife because he has violated her; he may never divorce her as long as he lives.” – Deuteronomy 22:29

      New International Reader’s Version (NIRV)
      “29 Then the man must weigh out 20 ounces of silver. He must give it to her father. The man must marry the young woman, because he RAPED HER. And he can never divorce her as long as he lives.” – Deuteronomy 22:29

      Contemporary English Version (CEV)
      “29 they will be forced to get married. He must give her father fifty pieces of silver as a bride-price and[a] can never divorce her.” – Deuteronomy 22:29

      Footnote for CEV Translation:

      “22.28,29 talks her into sleeping with him. . . bride-price and: Or “FORCES HER TO HAVE SEX.”

      Expanded Bible (EXB)
      29 the man who ·had sexual relations [L lay] with her must pay the girl’s father about ·one and one-fourth pounds [L fifty shekels] of silver. He must also marry the girl, because he has ·dishonored [HUMILIATED; RAPED] her, and he may never divorce her for as long as he lives [Ex. 22:16–17].” – Deuteronomy 22:29

      GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
      “29 the man who had sexual intercourse with her must give the girl’s father 1¼ pounds of silver, and she will become his wife. SINCE HE RAPED HER, he can never divorce her as long as he lives.[a]” – Deuteronomy 22:29

      Good News Translation (GNT)
      “29 He is to pay her father the bride price of fifty pieces of silver, and she is to become his wife, because he FORCED HER TO HAVE INTERCOURSE WITH HIM. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.” – Deuteronomy 22:29

      EVEN THE COMMENTATORS SAY IT IS ABOUT RAPE:
      https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/07/30/biblical-law-forces-rapist-to-marry-victim-anahinna/

      Chuck Smith Bible Commentary:

      “NOW, IF YOU RAPED A GIRL, and she is a virgin, and she is not betrothed to someone else, then you”re to take her as your wife to pay her father fifty shekels of silver (Deuteronomy 22:23-29).” (Chuck Smith Bible Commentary – Deuteronomy 22:29 – online source)

      Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible – Unabridged:

      “But if SHE WAS FORCED, THE MAN ONLY WHO COMMITTED THE RAPE was to suffer for the violence, which was regarded as a capital crime. In the case of a maiden not betrothed being seduced, the man was OBLIGED TO MARRY HER, and he forfeited the right possessed by other husbands of giving her a divorce. …”(Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible – Unabridged – Deuteronomy 22:29 – online source)

      Biblical scholars John Walton, Victor Matthew and Mark Chavalas in their The IVP Bible Background Commentary have the following on Deuteronomy 22:25-27 which is the context of verses 28 and 29:

      “In this case, Israelite law adds another criterion by specifying the guiltlessness of the woman who is RAPED in the countryside, where her screams were unlikely to attract assistance. The assumption of her innocence is based on the implied resistance to the rape in this circumstance.” (Walton, J. H., Matthew, V. H., & Chavalas, M. W. (2000). The IVP Bible Background Commentary: The Old Testament. Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press. p. 196)

      Biblical scholar and historian Philip King who was professor of Biblical Studies in the Department of Theology at Boston College and Dorot Professor of the Archeology of Israel in the Department of Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations at Hardvard University Lawrence Stager write:

      “RAPE IS REFERRED TO ONLY IN DEUTERONOMY, but with no sharp distinction between rape and seduction. THE RAPIST “SHALL GIVE FIFTY SHEKELS OF SILVER TO THAT YOUNG WOMAN’S FATHER, AND SHE SHALL BECOME HIS WIFE. Because he violated her, he shall not be permitted to divorce her as long as he lives.”(Deut. 22:29) The Payment in this case represents the mohar.” (King, P. J, & Stager, L. E. (2001). Life in Biblical Israel. In Douglas A. Knight (ed.), Library of Ancient Israel. Louisville, Kentucky: Westminster John Knox Press. p. 60)

      The late conservative Biblical scholar Peter Craigie who held several top posts such as head of the religious studies department at the University of Calgary in his commentary on Deuteronomy 22:28-29 writes as follows:

      “28-29 (iv) The RAPE OF A SINGLE WOMAN. THE MAN USES FORCE ON THE WOMAN, who is a virgin and is not betrothed to a man; the two are discovered while the crime is being committed. In this case, the man must pay damages to the father, in the amount of fifty pieces (shekels) of silver, and he must marry the woman.” (Craigie, P. C. (1976). The New International Commentary on the Old Testament: The Book of Deuteronomy. Grand Rapids, Michigan: Wm. Eerdmans Publishing Co. p. 295)

      The late Biblical scholar and specialist in Hebrew studies Roger Whybray writes:

      “Deuteronomy 22:22-29 deals with adultery and RAPE, and make distinctions between RAPE in the open country, where the woman is defenceless, and rape in the town, where it is held that she could have shouted for help. Rape of an unbetrothed virgin is punished by a payment to her father.” (Whybray, R. N. (2002). The Good Life in the Old Testament. Edinburgh, Scotland: T&T Clark. p. 50)

      Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Salve Regina University T. J. Wray writes:

      “The crime of rape in the Bible is varied and complex. In the world of biblical antiquity, RAPE is largely viewed as a crime of disordered lust. Today, we know that it is about must more, but in the Bible, if an unengaged virgin is RAPED, she may actually be required TO MARRY HER RAPIST, and the rapist may must pay the girl’s father a fee for defiling his daughter (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)! Though Deuteronomy stipulates the death penalty for the rape of an engaged female (Deut. 22:25-27, there are numerous cases of vigilante justice for victims of rape (Gen 34:25-29; Judges 19-20; 2 Sam 13:22-29), which leads us to conclude that perhaps in ancient Israel, the long arm of the law often falls short when it comes to rape.” (Wray, T. J. (2011). What the Bible Really Tells Us: The Essential Guide to Biblical Literacy. Lanham, Maryland: Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, Inc. p. 142)

      Dr. Gary Hall, Professor of Old Testament and Hebrew at Lincoln Christian Seminary in his commentary on Deuteronomy 22:28-29 write:

      “22:28-29 If the girl who was violated was not married or engaged, the penalty was not death but a fine and the loss of the right of divorce. The law protected both the girl (economic security) and the father (loss of bride price). The girl’s loss of virginity would have made her virtually unmarriageable. In Exodus 22:16 the father could refuse to let the girl marry the seducer. There is some question whether the act in view here was rape (NIV) or consensual. The word of verse 25 (“seize”) was not used but an apparently more mild word which meant “take hold of.” However, the explanation that the man had violated the girl POINTS TOWARD RAPE. The expression was also used of Shechem’s treatment of Dinah (Gen. 34:2).” (Hall, G. H. (2000). The College Press NIV Commentary: Deuteronomy. United States: College Press Publishing Co. p. 339)

      Avid Christian pastor and Bible instructor Warren W. Wiersbe writes:

      “According to the law, if a man RAPED A VIRGIN not engaged to be married, he had to pay her father a fine and marry her, and he could never divorce her (Deut. 2:28-29).” (Wiersbe, W. W. (2003). The Bible Exposition Commentary: Old Testament History. Colorado Springs, Colorado: Cook Communications Ministries. p. 342)
      https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/07/30/biblical-law-forces-rapist-to-marry-victim-anahinna/

      Let me repeat that word again “Ouch” 🙂 🙂 😉

      Like

  2. Hope you dont mind br Paul, but here is a 3 part refutation to the “blonde women” claim

    Part 1
    https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/07/26/surah-949-and-the-blonde-women/

    Part 2
    https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/07/30/muhammed-blonde-women-and-quran-949/

    Part 3,
    https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/08/01/banu-asfar-jadd-b-qays-and-the-blonde-women-claim/

    Let’s now compare this blonde claim to the Bible verses where innocent women were raped by Jesus’s (god) soldiers:

    The approval, endorsement, and permissibility of rape from the Bible:

    Deuteronomy 21:10-14 Good News Translation (GNT)
    10 “When the Lord your God gives you victory in battle and you take prisoners, 11 you may see among them a beautiful woman that you like and want to marry. 12 TAKE HER to your home, where she will shave her head, cut her fingernails, 13 and change her clothes. She is to stay in your home and mourn for her parents for a month; after that, you may marry her. 14 Later, if you no longer want her, you are to let her go free. Since you FORCED HER TO HAVE INTERCOURSE WITH YOU, you cannot treat her as a slave and sell her.”

    The Hebrew word ‘anah’ carries the meaning of rape. See the following verse where the Hebrew word “anah” is used:

    Translations for Lamentations 5:11

    New Living Translation
    “Our enemies RAPE THE WOMEN in Jerusalem and the young girls in all the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    English Standard Version (ESV)
    “Women are RAPED in Zion, young women in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)
    “Women are RAPED in Zion, young women in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
    “Women are RAPED in Zion, girls in the cities of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    International Standard Version (ISV)
    “They have RAPED women in Zion, young women in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    NET Bible
    “They RAPED women in Zion, virgins in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    GOD’S WORD® Translation
    “Women in Zion are RAPED, so are the girls in the cities of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    Common English Bible (CEB)
    “Women have been RAPED in Zion, young women in Judah’s cities.” – Lamentations 5:11

    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
    “They have RAPED the women of Tziyon, virgins in the cities of Y’hudah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    Contemporary English Version (CEV)
    “On Zion and everywhere in Judah our wives and daughters are BEING RAPED.” – Lamentations 5:11

    Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
    “The enemy raped the women of Zion. They RAPED THE WOMEN in the cities of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    Expanded Bible (EXB)
    “The enemy [L They] ·ABUSED [VIOLATED; RAPED] the women ·of Jerusalem [L in Zion; C the location of the Temple] and the ·girls [L virgins] in the ·cities [towns] of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    Good News Translation (GNT)
    “Our wives have BEEN RAPED on Mount Zion itself; in every Judean village our daughters have been forced to submit.” – Lamentations 5:11

    International Children’s Bible (ICB)
    “The ENEMY RAPED the women of Jerusalem and the girls in the cities of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    Lexham English Bible (LEB)
    “They RAPED women in Zion, young women[a] in the cities of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    Living Bible (TLB)
    “They RAPE the women of Jerusalem and the girls in Judah’s cities.” – Lamentations 5:11

    The Message (MSG)
    “Our wives were RAPED in the streets in Zion, and our virgins in the cities of Judah.” Lamentations 5:11

    Names of God Bible (NOG)
    “Women in Zion are RAPED, so are the girls in the cities of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
    “Women are RAPED in Zion, young women in the cities of Judah…” – Lamentations 5:11

    New English Translation (NET Bible)
    “They RAPED women in Zion, virgins in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
    “Women are RAPED in Zion, virgins in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised (NRSVA)
    “Women are RAPED in Zion, virgins in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition
    “Women are RAPED in Zion, virgins in the towns of Judah.” – Lamentations 5:11

    The Voice (VOICE)
    “In the place where God should be— Zion and the surrounding towns of Judah— Women, young and old alike, are BRUTALLY RAPED and violated.” – Lamentations 5:11
    https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/07/29/deuteronomy-211014-hebrew-word-anah-means-rape/

    Liked by 2 people

    • Compare the Quran to another verse from the Bible.

      Christian woman are NOT allowed to be divorced even if they are beaten and raped by their own husbands. And divorcing their own husband’s they are called “addulterious” by Jesus:

      This command is also taught by Jesus himself, if divorce were to take place, the Christian woman would be called an “adulteress”:

      “When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And IF SHE DIVORCES her husband and marries another man, SHE COMMITS ADULTERY.” Mark 10:10-12

      This may be hurtful for some our readers to read, but we would go as far as to say that continual rape, beating your wife senseless, none of these evil actions would by the Law of Jesus, allow for divorce.

      On 1 Corinthians 7:4, marital rape in the New Testament

      “4 The WIFE DOES NOT HAVE AUTHORITY over her own body (private part), but HER HUSBAND DOES. …” – I Corinthians 7:4

      Christian scholars reiterate that marital rape is permitted in the Bible, especially 1 Corinthians 7:4:

      Coming back to I Corinthians 7: 3-4, the exegesis from the past to present day have reiterated that the wife has no right over her private part. The husband can go into her any day, any time he pleases. When the wife got married, her right to her body is longer binding, this right is passed to the husband. The following commentaries are from Christian scholars, commenting on the verse.

      Pastor and Bible teacher David Guzik:

      “b. On the same idea, also the wife to her husband: The wife is not to withhold marital affection from her husband. Paul strongly puts forth the idea that there is a mutual sexual responsibility in marriage. The husband has obligations toward his wife, and the wife has obligations toward her husband.
      i. Render to his wife: The emphasis is on giving, on “I owe you” instead of “you owe me.” In God’s heart, sex is put on a much higher level than merely the husband’s privilege and the wife’s duty.
      c. The wife does not have authority over her own body: In fact, these obligations ARE SO CONCRETE, IT COULD BE SAID THAT THE WIFE’S BODY DOES NOT EVEN BELONG TO HERSELF, BUT TO HER HUSBAND. The same principle is true of the husband’s body in regard to his wife. …”
      (David Guzik Commentary on the Bible – online source)

      Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges:

      “Verse 4
      4. οὐκ ἐξουσιάζει. A.V. hath not power. Better, HATH NO RIGHT. ἐξουσία sometimes stands for power, as in Revelation 9:3. But the more usual sense of the word is AUTHORITY. τοῦ ἰδίου σώματος. OVER HER OWN BODY. Because in everything connected with the duties of married life each should consult the comfort, well-being, and happiness of the other before their own, and should be especially careful that they do not, by any selfishness on the part of either, ‘cause their brother to offend’” (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges – online source)

      Heinrich Meyer’s Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament:

      “Verse 3-4
      ἡ γυνὴ τοῦ ἰδίου σώμ. κ. τ. λ(1073)] Explanatory of 1 Corinthians 7:3. THE WIFE HAS NO POWER OVER HER OWN BODY, NAMELY, AS REGARDS COHABITATION, but THE HUSBAND HAS THAT POWER; likewise ( ὁμοίως) also, on the other hand, the converse holds, so that “neutri liceat alteri conjugale debitum poscenti denegare,” Estius. Corresponding statements of the Rabbins may be seen in Selden, uxor. Hebr. iii. 6, 7. Bengel says happily respecting ἰδίου, that it forms with οὐκ ἐξουσιάζει, an elegans paradoxon.” (Heinrich Meyer’s Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament – online source)
      https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/07/27/does-the-new-testament-endorse-marital-rape/

      Like

    • Let us compare the Bible with the Quran to see who the rapist is:

      “Now concerning the things about which you wrote to me: ‘It is good for a man not to touch a woman.’ Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the husband render to the wife due affection, and likewise the wife to the husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. LIKEWISE, THE HUSBAND DOES NOT HAVE AUTHORITY OVER HIS OWN BODY, BUT THE WIFE DOES. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer. Then come together again, so that Satan does not tempt you for lack of self-control.” 1 Corinthians 7:1-5

      If the verse teaches rape, THE IT TEACHES THAT WOMEN CAN RAPE THEIR HUSBANDS AS WELL! Only someone who is a sick demented demon could twist the Bible in this manner. However, every time you do so I will end up shaming and humiliating your profit. You could only wish that your wicked profit taught something similar to what Paul did. But as we know, Muhammad is under the sandals of Paul, Jesus’ Slave and Muhammad’s Master.

      Now let us see how your profit compared women to fields and dogs and asses:

      Your women ARE A TILLAGE for you; so come unto your tillage AS YOU WISH, and forward for your souls; and fear God, and know that you shall meet Him. Give thou good tidings to the believers. S. 2:223 Arberry

      The hadiths provide the reason why this passage was given:

      Narrated Jabir:
      Jews used to say: “If one has sexual intercourse with his wife from the back, then she will deliver a squint-eyed child.” So this Verse was revealed:– “Your wives are a tilth unto you; so go to your tilth when or how you will.” (2.223) (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 51)

      The hadiths even tell us how Allah and his angels feel about a woman that refuses to allow her husband to enter her when and how he wants:

      Narrated Abu Huraira:
      Allah’s Apostle said, “If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 460)

      Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: By Him in Whose Hand is my life, when a man calls his wife to his bed, and she does not respond, the One Who is in the heaven is displeased with her until he (her husband) is pleased with her. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3367)

      Narrated ‘Aisha:
      The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, “Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey AND A WOMAN (if they pass in front of the praying people).” I said, “You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away, for I disliked to face him.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 9, Number 490)

      Abu Dharr reported: THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH (may peace be upon him) SAID: When any one of you stands for prayer and there is a thing before him equal to the back of the saddle that covers him and in case there is not before him (a thing) equal to the back of the saddle, HIS PRAYER WOULD BE CUT OFF BY (passing of an) ASS, WOMAN, AND BLACK DOG. I said: O Abu Dharr, what feature is there in a black dog which distinguish it from the red dog and the yellow dog? He said: O, son of my brother, I asked the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) as you are asking me, and he said: The black dog is a devil. (Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1032)

      Abu Huraira reported: THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH SAID: A WOMAN, AN ASS AND A DOG DISRUPT THE PRAYER, but something like the back of a saddle guards against that. (Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1034)

      So here we see how your profit placed your mother, sisters, wives and daughters on the same level as fields, dogs and asses!

      he so-called sound ahadith report that Muhammad taught that Allah has predestined the amount of adultery a person must necessarily commit:

      Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas:
      I did not see anything so resembling minor sins as what Abu Huraira said from the Prophet, who said, “Allah has written for the son of Adam his INEVITABLE share of adultery whether he is aware of it or not: The adultery of the eye is the looking (at something which is sinful to look at), and the adultery of the tongue is to utter (what it is unlawful to utter), and the innerself wishes and longs for (adultery) and the private parts turn that into reality or refrain from submitting to the temptation.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 77, Number 609)

      Verily Allah has fixed the very portion of adultery which a man will indulge in, and which he OF NECESSITY MUST COMMIT (or there would be no escape from it). (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6421; see also Number 6422)

      In other words, all the people who end up raping women like Muhammad and his thugs did are only carrying out the very sexual filth which flyinghourideflowerer’s god has predestined for them!

      Man, it really must suck being a black stone kisser who keeps getting humiliated, no thanks to your vile, wicked profit!

      Like

    • Here is a part 4, where the Bible sanctions/permits/allows rape:

      Deuteronomy 21:10-14 has been noted by some that the ‘provisions’ laid out in the passage are ‘remarkable’, ‘compassionate’ and ‘humanistic’. Let’s read:

      Deuteronomy 21:10-14 Good News Translation (GNT)
      “10 When the Lord your God gives you victory in battle and you take prisoners, 11 you may see among them a beautiful woman that you like and want to marry. 12 TAKE HER to your home, where she will shave her head, cut her fingernails, 13 and change her clothes. She is to stay in your home and mourn for her parents for a month; after that, you may marry her. 14 Later, if you no longer want her, you are to let her go free. Since you FORCED HER TO HAVE INTERCOURSE (ANAH) WITH YOU, you cannot treat her as a slave and sell her.”
      https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/07/30/hebrew-word-anah-inna-carries-the-meaning-of-rape/

      Anah means ‘RAPE’, this is attested in the following verses for Genesis 34:2,
      https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/gen/34/2/t_conc_34002

      Translations for Genesis 34:2

      Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
      “2 and Sh’khem the son of Hamor the Hivi, the local ruler, saw her, grabbed her, RAPED HER and humiliated her.” – Genesis 34:2

      Contemporary English Version (CEV)
      “2 She was seen by Hamor’s son Shechem, the leader of the Hivites, and he grabbed her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
      “2 She was seen by Shechem, the son of Hamor the Hivite, who ruled that area. Shechem took Dinah and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      Good News Translation (GNT)
      “2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, who was chief of that region, saw her, he took her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
      “2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, a prince of the region, saw her, he took her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      International Children’s Bible (ICB)
      “2 Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, the ruler of that land, saw Dinah. He took her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      International Standard Version (ISV)
      “2 When Hamor the Hivite’s son Shechem, the regional leader, saw her, he grabbed her and RAPED HER, humiliating her.” – Genesis 34:2

      Lexham English Bible (LEB)
      “2 And Shechem, the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, saw her. And he took her and lay with her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      The Message (MSG)
      “1-2 One day Dinah, the daughter Leah had given Jacob, went to visit some of the women in that country. Shechem, the son of Hamor the Hivite who was chieftain there, saw her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      Names of God Bible (NOG)
      “2 When Shechem, son of the local ruler Hamor the Hivite, saw her, he took her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      Living Bible (TLB)
      “2 but when Shechem, son of King Hamor the Hivite, saw her, he took her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
      “2 When Shechem, son of the local ruler Hamor the Hivite, saw her, he took her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      New International Reader’s Version (NIRV)
      “2 Hamor, the Hivite, was the ruler of that area. When his son Shechem saw Dinah, he took her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      New International Version (NIV)
      “2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, the ruler of that area, saw her, he took her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      New International Version – UK (NIVUK)
      “2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, the ruler of that area, saw her, he took her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      New Living Translation (NLT)
      “2 But when the local prince, Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, saw Dinah, he seized her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      Tree of Life Version (TLV)
      “2 When Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, saw her, he took her and lay with her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      The Voice (VOICE)
      “2 But when Shechem (son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the region) saw Dinah, he grabbed her and RAPED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      New American Standard Bible (NASB)
      “2 When Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, saw her, he took her and LAY WITH HER [A]BY FORCE.” – Genesis 34:2

      New Century Version (NCV)
      “2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, the ruler of the land, saw her, he took her and FORCED HER TO HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH HIM.” – Genesis 34:2

      New English Translation (NET Bible)
      “2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, who ruled that area, saw her, he grabbed her, FORCED HIMSELF ON HER, and SEXUALLY ASSAULTED HER.” – Genesis 34:2

      New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
      “2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the region, saw her, he seized her and LAY WITH HER BY FORCE.” – Genesis 34:2

      New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised (NRSVA)
      “2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the region, saw her, he seized her and LAY WITH HER BY FORCE.” – Genesis 34:2

      New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE)
      “2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the region, saw her, he SEIZED HER AND LAY WITH HER BY FORCE.” – Genesis 34:2

      New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
      “2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the region, saw her, he seized her and LAY WITH HER BY FORCE.” – Genesis 34:2

      Wycliffe Bible (WYC)
      “2 And when Shechem, the son of Hamor (the) Hivite, the prince of that land, had seen her, he loved her, and he ravished her, and (he) slept with her, and OPPRESSED THE VIRGIN BY VIOLENCE (and he oppressed the virgin with violence).” – Genesis 34:2

      Amplified Bible (AMP)
      “2 When Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince (sheik) of the land, saw her, he KIDNAPPED HER AND LAY [INTIMATELY] WITH HER BY FORCE [humbling and offending her].” – Genesis 34:2

      Expanded Bible (EXB)
      “2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite [C one of the tribes that inhabited Canaan], the ·ruler [prince] of the land, saw her, he took her and FORCED HER TO HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH HIM [lay with her and humiliated/violated her].” – Genesis 34:2

      New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
      “2 When Shechem, son of Hamor the Hivite,[a] the leader of the region, saw her, HE SEIZED HER AND LAY WITH HER BY FORCE.” – Genesis 34:2

      🙂 😉

      Like

  3. Paul’s Pal

    You said;
    Man, it really must suck being a black stone kisser who keeps getting humiliated, no thanks to your vile, wicked profit!

    I say;
    You ugly person with big stomach full of filth and will not was the filth when you visit toilet and use your dirty hand to enter Churches and kneel in front of crosses and worship man and cross and is ok. with that. You bastard and uneducated who cannot go back to school and learn like you colleagues.

    Thanks.

    Like

  4. Gentlemen this is totally unacceptable language. Thread closed.

    Like

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