Do Acts 17 Apologetics and Pfander Films Contribute to Apostasy of Christians?

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Muslims have refuted ad nauseum the claim that Islam allows rape of concubines (see here and here for examples) so I am not looking at discussing this claim. This is a focus on the idea of consistency (or rather a lack of it) when it comes to the Bible.

In this video we see a Christian apologist, James White, give a standard response to the idea of the Old Testament (yes, that’s the Bible) allowing women to be captured  as concubines or married off to the captors. His answer seems pretty straight forward to semi-smart people. However his comments do highlight the rampant inconsistency coming from Christians like those at Acts 17 Apologetics and Pfander Films.

Anybody who can process the idea of context, judgement of God, and understand the fallacy of presentism can argue against Western secular humanist critique of Abrahamic religions and religious figures.Sadly, what I’m noticing on the Muslim-Christian apologetics/polemics scene is a tendency to ignore such factors and argue as Western secular humanists against the other religion. This happens amongst the Christian camp. Westernized Christians like Jay Smith, Beth Grove, David Wood and Dr Tony Costa go so far as to adopt an inconsistent standard of argumentation to attack Islam whilst ignoring or being unaware of their indirect attack on the Old Testament and the Trinitarian view of Jesus.

Glaring examples would include polygamy, capital punishment, violence and concubinage. The example of concubinage takes a life of its own as Christian polemics propagandize in order to equate that to rape and even introduce new, misleading and emotive terminology for concubines – “sex slaves”!

For the serious-minded and smart Christian evangelist there are two problems:

1. The argument is inconsistent as the Old Testament allowed soldiers to take captured women (Num 31:16-18, Num 31:31-40, Deut 21:10-14). The Old Testament is the word of Jesus along with the Father according to Trinitarian theology thus, for the Trinitarian, to argue this is rape is to indirectly accuse Jesus of allowing rape.

2. The Christian polemicist is setting Christians up to stumble out of the Church with premises which aren’t couched in consistent Biblical thought. Think about it, a young Western millennial Christian is effectively being taught by Christian polemicists like David Wood and Jay Smith that polygamy, concubines, warfare and capital punishment make a religion false. These millennials are being set up to stumble out of Christianity as they later build up their knowledge base of the Old Testament. This is all because “feel good Christian” polemicists like Wood and Smith don’t appear to have the intellectual honesty or foresight to factor in consistency with the Bible.

Christians are quite often scoring own goals. That desire for the quick buck, quick convert or quick boost in personal popularity can quite easily assist the undoing of some young Christian’s faith further down the line.

Surely smart Christians can see this. Sadly for Christianity there are less and less smart Christians operating in this arena and even fewer have the fortitude, or regard for Christianity, to take on the “feel good Christian” missionaries.

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Categories: Islam

83 replies

  1. It’s definitely not ignorance as far as Jay Smith is concerned. When any muslim says this to him at HP he quickly says he doesn’t follow the OT.

    That’s the problem with Christianity, they pick and choose from OT prophecies that prophecy Jesus PBUH yet reject the rest of it when they are cornered.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Jay Smith is almost like the Marcionites.

      I think a good term for these kind of Christians is “moral Marcionites” as opposed to the ancient theological marcionites.

      Like

  2. It is no secret that Christian polemicists have been engaging in this type of double standard for a long time. The fact that Christian Apologists act as if they have never heard a solid refutation in regard to their false accusations and claims about Islam just highlights their dishonest approach, and lack of care and disregard for truthfulness in having a two way conversation with Muslims. In preference for constant opposition and conflict, these Christians seem to be incapable of even finding and/or recognizing areas of common ground and agreement with Islam. They often refuse to speak even a single honest word about Islam, for fear that it might somehow threaten their own Christian theology, thus revealing how delicate, weak, and precarious the position of Christianity really is in comparison.

    Such Christians are constantly dredging up old accusations and claims against Islam that have been thoroughly refuted and throwing them, like spaghetti, against the wall, hoping something will stick, or hoping to intentionally misguide and confuse people about Islam. But this wearisome strategy often has the reverse effect, since intelligent and reflective people will do their own research and study and often come to more positive conclusions about Islam when given the real facts. I think the article is right, and that it could set up young impressionable Christians to lose faith, leave Christianity and even could lead them to Atheism. We can only hope and pray it will help lead them to Islam instead, Insha’Allah.

    Furthermore, this failed Christian strategy has already backfired in a HUGE way, in that it’s blowback has now created and continues to feed a new generation of Muslim apologists, young and old, who are highly motivated to learn more about Islamic Studies and NT Historical Textual Criticism, and the findings of modern Biblical Scholarship, for the sole express purpose of defending Islam against the Christian frontal assault, and then returning in kind, with their own counter attack and highly damaging critique of Christianity which exposes it as the house of cards that it really is. So Christian Apologists have created their own nightmare situation. The Catholic Church has begun to understand that the cost benefit ratio of this, since it is clear that in the modern internet age, the long term benefits of such an approach are far outweighed by the negative repercussions. However, the evangelicals, fundamentalist protestants, Zionists and some others still haven’t fully absorbed the idea that their attitude, approach, and current Polemical strategy generates little to no pay off, and helps to create negativity toward their own theologies, both outside and within their own circles.

    I think that this type of Christian double standard strategy is not only hurting Christianity in the long run but it is dragging the conversation down in the Apologetic scene. Instead of arguing about differences we could be discussing commonalities; Instead of criticizing our differences, we could be appreciating them; Instead of antagonizing each other, we could be supporting each other as people of faith.

    What a refresher it would be to see these people learn to respectfully engage with their Abrahamic Sister faith, Islam, in the same way that they discourse respectfully with Judaism.

    O’ Allah, we pray for such a day – Amen.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Paul W.
      Thanks to you and Yahya for posting the article. I hope Christians will start to see that they are causing more damage to themselves than they are to Islam in the long run, and that they will see the value in changing their strategies to reflect a more positive and respectful approach.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Funny reply. I can write exactly the same comment, but reversed.
      Muslims can’t even answer tough questions about the history of islam, without quoting hadith and sirah which were compiled 200-300 years after Muhammad. That is much more devastating and led many muslims away from islam.

      Like

    • Infinity and One,
      Loonwatch is a great force for truth in media. Those are some good links with lots of info. I hope people will support Steven Danios important work.

      Like

  3. Those are the servants of satan with no doubt!
    May Allah expose them more and more.
    The time will pass. Islam will remain as the truth from God as it has always been. They will go to the trash of history.

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  4. Show me ONE verse from Numbers 31 that women are being raped, or that it is allowed to rape women. You can’t. So this is another muslim bullshit article.

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    • Harry,
      If you think that is “another muslim bullshit article” why do you keep coming to this blog to read all of these inconsequential articles??

      Maybe, its because, deep down…….you know it’s not BS.

      Liked by 1 person

    • I keep coming because all these muslim lies that deceive people must be exposed. And muslims are not able to answer tough questions, over and over again. They think that they understand the message from God, but they don’t and distort what God is really telling us:
      John 3:16-21
      For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

      That is in great contradiction to the message of the quran: a message of hell threats, manipulation, fear.
      God is love! That is what the bible says. The quran is a bad copy of the bible, because the satan tries to copy God, but he is a bad copier, the father of all lies. Muslims don’t understand the bible.

      But Peter, one of the most beloved disciples of Jesus, already predicted that:
      2 Peter 3:14-16
      So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

      And 17-18: Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

      But what you do, muslims, is not new. Just after Jesus’ ascension to heaven, many people Tens of thousands) started to follow Jesus, and they got persecuted. Because what? Because they were overwhelmed by the Gospel of God’s love.

      I genuinely hope that the message of the bible, that Jesus died for the sins of mankind, and that he resurrected from death, to give new and eternal life to all his followers, will ignite the fire of love in hearts of people. Like many Christians have experienced. Also many, many ex-muslims.
      God bless!

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    • Harry,
      I think you may benefit from reading Allen Ruhl’s more polished comment below which discourages resorting to red herrings like long disproven Revisionist theories and the “evil Muslim” card.

      They aren’t working bro, time to try a new tact.

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    • Ibn Issam: you should read the comments on the vids of David Wood. I have seen many from muslims who confess that they gave their life to Jesus after watching David Wood’s videos. It opened their eyes for the true God. A God who does not deceive people (like Allah does, just after Jesus’ ascension), a God who really is all-knowing (and doesn’t need abrogation), a God who really loves people (and don’t need manipulation), a God who does what He promised (and not like Allah who lied to Jesus, saying that Jesus got the Gospel to lead mankind, but allowed the corruption of his words, soon after his ascension).

      I picked one of the testimonies:
      “Hi David. =) I’m Abdul. I live in Turkey (also raised) and through grace I am a new born Christian. You have shaken Islam, proving it wrong, proving that Jesus is the way. I would love to save my family, and friends, and all of Turkey, so that they may be born again. I want to give you a salutation of respect, and thankfulness. Without you, I would still be lost in the darkness of Islam, but through grace and through your preaching, I am born again. Thank you so, so much, my wonderful friend.”

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    • Harry,
      Your naive comments about Islam could better be applied to Christianity.

      Be careful not to misplace your trust in David Wood and those like him. How do u know that it is not he and his own followers posing online as “converted Muslims” in an efffort to deceive. Again don’t be so naive my friend.

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    • So Harry, which argument of Wood’s do you find the most convincing?

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    • Sorry, my friend, but who is naive here? Do you really think that David creates all these Google and Facebook accounts and fabricated all these testimonies, perfectly with all the english mistakes?

      I have asked so many questions here and many are still unanswered. And also my question about Numbers 31 is not answered. Muslims show over and over again that they are not able to answer these questions. The muslim trick is when these questions are asked, that they ask counter-questions to distract from the tough questions.

      So I have some other questions:

      1st: Muslims always say that the bible (including Torah and Gospel) is corrupted. But WHO corrupted the bible, WHEN (what years) was it corrupted, WHAT was corrupted.
      These questions are asked 1,000s times, and muslims gave 1,000s different answers. The truth has only ONE answer.

      2nd: Why did Allah allow that the bible got corrupted so very soon after Jesus life on earth? Or was he not able to preserve the bible? Read surahs 6:114-115, 18-27, 10:64 where Allah says that NOBODY can change his words.
      So or he deceived the followers of Jesus, and allah is a liar, or he was not powerful to preserve the bible, and he is weak and not almighty.

      3rd: the quran says several times that the Jews and Christians still POSSESS the Torah, Gospel and Scripture (whole bible) (surahs 5:43, 5:47, 10:94), and he said to Muhammad to ask the christians to witness. Isn’t it very stupid to ask christians to witness, knowing that they have a CORRUPTED bible? We now know that the christians then have the SAME BIBLE we have now.

      4th: Surah 3:3-4 says that the Torah AND the Gospel are given to lead mankind. He also said in surahs 3:55 and 61:14 that the real followers of Jesus became dominant and superior until the day of resurrection. So if Allah allowed the people to corrupt the Gospel very soon after Jesus’ life on earth, Allah failed. He was not able to give a book to lead the mankind. Why failed Allah? Or did he lie?

      5th: if Jesus was a muslim and his followers were muslims, too, why don’t we read anything about this in historical writings? We only read that the followers of Christ believed that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of mankind and the he rose from death to give a new and eternal life to his followers. And we only read that they believed in his Deity, except some heretic. So where are all these unknown muslims from the 1st until 7th century?

      6th: If Allah was too weak to preserve the bible or if he deceived the followers of Jesus so soon after Jesus’ life on earth, what guarantee do you have that he is now strong enough to preserve the quran, or that he is not deceiving you now?

      7th: Jesus was a great Prophet according the quran. His name is mentioned more times than the name of Muhammad. Jesus also did miracles, he rose people from death, he healed sick people, he made doves from clay and brought these to life (which come from a apocryphal book, gospel of Thomas) If Allah deceived the followers of Jesus of if he was not able to preserve the Gospel so soon after Jesus’ life on earth, what purpose had Jesus’ life then? So his life was worth nothing and me made Jesus a fool and mistake.

      Answer these questions, if you can. If you cannot answer these questions, ask yourself if your religion is so rational and logical as you think.

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  5. If you go to my website, allanruhl.com you will find that I engage in none of this. It’s a dead end in my opinion. We should be debating issues like Who is God? Who is Jesus? Is Muhammad a prophet? Is the Bible God’s word? Is the Quran God’s word? and other similar issues. Although I’ve had problems with James White in the past(He’s responded to one of my posts for over an hour before!) he essentially sticks to the issues as well.

    The sad thing about people who give these bad arguments is that they give good arguments as well. Their good arguments don’t have much effect because they’re mixed in with these other arguments which are complete red herrings, whether they are true or false.

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  6. Harry

    I picked one of the testimonies:
    “Hi David. =) I’m Abdul. I live in Turkey (also raised) and through grace I am a new born Christian. You have shaken Islam, proving it wrong, proving that Jesus is the way. I would love to save my family, and friends, and all of Turkey, so that they may be born again. I want to give you a salutation of respect, and thankfulness. Without you, I would still be lost in the darkness of Islam, but through grace and through your preaching, I am born again. Thank you so, so much, my wonderful friend.”

    I say;
    You are naïve Mr. Harry. Have you been to Yusuf Estes web sites? and viewed his youtube? Khalid Yasin, Hamza,Yusuf youtube sites? etc. where there have been converting many Christians, have you watch those?

    Writing some conversion to David Wood is not a proof. David Wood must be seen converting a single Muslim from Turkey which David Wood has not been seen doing. You are the people who will be deceived by a comment on David Wood site with regards to conversion.

    Proof of Christians converting to Islam is not a comment but real and this blog owner Paul Williams is an example among others. He did not need any one to convince him but like any convert to Islam he read and research together with his intellect he converted to Islam.

    He and other coverts have videos talking with Christians and correcting Christianity. Tell David Wood to let his converts come here to challenge us about Islam and Christianity or just produce videos as Paul usually does talking with Christians.

    David Wood converts must produce videos talking with Muslims and challenging Islam with questions and answers as Paul Williams, Yusuf Estes, Khalid Yasin, Hamza Yusuf, Dr. Jerald Dirks, Dr. Ingrid Matson, Dr. Jonathan Brown, Dr. Jonathan Brown etc. are doing.

    It is unwise to just read a conversion comment on David Wood web site and think it is true.

    Thanks.

    Liked by 1 person

    • You made me laughing very hard. If Paul is so very intelligent, why doesn’t he debate Christian scholars? I have seen a ‘debate’ from his with another unknown Christian who proofed from the bible Jesus’ Deity. I watched Paul’s attitude and he didn’t even listen to this guy, and started repeating the same quotes, which were just refuted. So Paul is deaf and stubborn by purpose.
      Paul should read what Jesus said in Matthew 12:43-45.

      One of the Christians who got converted after many discussions with David, debated many times with high educated muslims. He also wrote several best selling books. He was a very devout muslim, his parents raised him in the islamic tradition, started to learn the quran by heart when he was 5, was able to recite the quran in Arabic when he was 10, did 5 prayers per day and was determined to convert christians to the islam, He visited many islamic conferences en went to the mosque every Friday. He is a doctor in medics, and he was 100% brainwashed by the islamic doctrine. His name is Nabeel Qureshi.

      Anyway, I did not mention the testimony of a christian to proof that the bible is true, we have many other evidences for that, it was just an answer to the previous reply. So this is a NON-discussion

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    • ‘If Paul is so very intelligent, why doesn’t he debate Christian scholars?’

      Firstly you are right, I’m not so very intelligent, and as I’m not a scholar I’m not up to debating Christian scholars – which is why I don’t debate them. OK?

      Like

    • I did not say you are intelligent, the previous replier said that.

      But you are probably intelligent enough to read Matthew 12:43-45.
      If your intellect fails to understand the meaning of these verses, I am very happy to explain these.

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    • You proof again that you are afraid to face the truth, Paul.

      So I will help you and others and quote these verses here:
      Matthew 12:43-45
      “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.”

      Like

  7. Harry

    You said;
    One of the Christians who got converted after many discussions with David, debated many times with high educated muslims. He also wrote several best selling books. He was a very devout muslim, his parents raised him in the islamic tradition, started to learn the quran by heart when he was 5, was able to recite the quran in Arabic when he was 10, did 5 prayers per day and was determined to convert christians to the islam, He visited many islamic conferences en went to the mosque every Friday. He is a doctor in medics, and he was 100% brainwashed by the islamic doctrine. His name is Nabeel Qureshi.

    I say;
    You are still naïve. Why?
    You did not bring a single real Muslim that David Wood has managed to convert since he started his ministry of deception and lies.

    Nabeel Quraish does not know his faith. Nabeel lied and said he would have travelled to Syria to fight if he remained in his former(Qadiani) faith.

    Fact.
    -Nabeel’s former faith was Qadiani and they will not go to Syria to fight. Not at all. They will not go to fight there.
    -Nabeel would have been killed instantly if he If he had visited Syria to fight. His hosts will not allow that and will kill him instantly.
    -Nabeel is fool and stupid not to know that he cannot travel to Syria to fight if he had remained in his former religion-Qadiani

    So, Mr. Harry bring another real Muslim that David Wood has converted not a liar Nabeel Quraish.

    Both Nabeel and David Wood do not speak Arabic and are not qualified to interpret the Quran. Those Christians who speak Arabic and knows Islam do respect Islam and Muslims and examples are Dr. Graig Considine, Dr. John L. Esposito and many more. Dr. Jerald Dirks who was a Christian Deacon and Masters of Divinity ended up converting to Islam like many others.

    David Wood, Sam Shamoun, Dr. James White, Jay Smith, Nabeel Quraish etc. when pressed to recite the Quran in Arabic, the cannot. I saw Nabeel and Dr. James White trying to recite Fatiha. That is not what we are talking about. Anyone can recite Fatiha just like any one can recite the Lords Prayer.

    In Islam before someone is qualified to interpret the Quran, knowing classical Arabic is one of the requirement which David and Nabeel do not have.

    So, Nabeel did not know the religion he claims was his former religion that is why David Wood managed to convince him and Nabeel has shown that he did not know his former religion.

    Paul Williams can choose the ones he want to debate with. I know he debates with Ken Temple who has masters of divinity here everyday. He debated with Nabeel Quraish and tried to debate with him at speakers corner but Nabeel had to run away because he cannot take the heat from Paul Williams.

    The same Paul Williams confronted David Wood and Jay Smith at speakers corner to debate with them and start to throw questions at them but the also run away.

    Thanks.

    Like

    • You hit the nail on his head: muslims kill each other because they follow the religion of ‘peace’.
      One of the well-known scholars is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. He has a doctorate for Islamic studies in Quranic studies, from Saddam University in Baghdad. He obtained a BA, MA, and PhD in Islamic studies from the Islamic University of Baghdad. He is a native Arabic speaker. So if these are the right criteria, follow him.

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    • 99% of the world’s Islamic scholars have condemned him. He only represents himself.

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    • You don’t want to follow the majority of native Arabic speaking high educated scholars, who teach islam in islamic countries. It is safe enough for you that they live far from you.

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    • scholar are scholars. Most are not Arabs. Not sure what you are getting at.

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    • Why are you now so quick in answering my replies and not when I ask tough questions? So please, ask my questions first, if you can.

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    • I confess I cannot. Happy now?

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    • That does not make me happy, Paul. It must make you unhappy with your wrong choice. You made the decision to leave Jesus Christ to join a religion that is far more questionable than Christianity.
      You know in your heart that you are deceiving people now. You know exactly what the bible is telling you.
      You know that Isaiah already said, 30:21: Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.”
      And you also know that Jesus said, John 14:6: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

      So consider your choice again. Know that Jesus waits for you.

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    • “You made the decision to leave Jesus Christ”

      Incorrect. I have discovered through my studies that the person of Jesus as understood in the Qur’an is remarkably similar to the actual Jesus of history, namely a human being who was a prophet and the Messiah. So I have not left Jesus at all by leaving Christianity (a religion Jesus did not preach).

      I have found the real Jesus. I invite you to do the same.

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    • @Paul: Really? The real Jesus? The Jesus who talked as a baby and made doves from clay and brought these to life, like written in non-approved apocryphal books before? A Jesus who was deceived by Allah, who gave him the Gospel which Allah wasn’t able to preserve? Or even worse, which Allah intentionally let corrupt to deceive the followers of Jesus?

      What did Jesus ultimately accomplish if the Gospel, that must lead mankind, was corrupted very soon after Jesus’ life on earth? Was Allah a deceiver, powerless, or ignorant?
      Where were all the real followers of Jesus, called muslims, who were dominant and superior, but nobody in the 1st until 7th century wrote about them?

      Come on! The islam is fake, and you must know that.

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    • Paul Williams

      “Incorrect. I have discovered through my studies that the person of Jesus as understood in the Qur’an is remarkably similar to the actual Jesus of history, namely a human being who was a prophet and the Messiah. So I have not left Jesus at all by leaving Christianity (a religion Jesus did not preach).

      I have found the real Jesus. I invite you to do the same.”

      Yaaawwwnnn.

      You keep going round in circles – what historical information does the quran provide about jesus’ life and era?

      Here are some questions that no muslim has been willing to answer….

      When does the quran say jesus lived?

      What country did he live in? WHere did he travel to?

      What were the names of his disciples?

      WHich cities did he perform his miracles in?

      What was the name of the religious figures who tried to crucify him?

      Who was the governor of Israel at the time?

      WHere is the ministry of the Apostle Paul refuted?

      Where does the quran mention the Apostle Paul?

      These are some very basic questions that help to establish the historicity of jesus.

      Also, I’m yet to hear the answer to the all important question of what the quran means when it uses the term “messiah”? The quran says that jesus was the messiah – yet if that is true, islam is false.

      So what is the significance of the word “messiah” in the quran?

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    • LOL!!!

      Still no muslim able to address this problem.

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    • oh well. Time to move on then..

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    • @Graham: I just read that Paul is a great debater. So I expect a perfect answer now.
      I am not a scholar and may be you neither, so Paul isn’t even able to answer questions from non-scholars.
      I think that he is being paid for being a muslim. He does not look like a muslim, he is western, so they think that he is the ‘perfect’ man to mislead guileless people. Just like the islamic professors Lumbard, Hamza and Brown. How much does Saudi Arabia pay these guys to be a misleading muslim?

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    • HArry

      Paul only likes to debate at speaker’s corner where he is surrounded by rowdy dawahists who try to shout down anyone who points out the incoherence of islamic theology.

      He’s had one debate that I know of in a structured setting when he debated Nabeel Qureshi a few years back, and he didn’t do that well.

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    • Harry
      Muslims and Jews worship the same God of OT, whom the early Jews called the Father. Therefore we don’t need to go through the Son to get to the Father whom we are already with.

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    • Ibn Issam

      “Muslims and Jews worship the same God of OT, whom the early Jews called the Father. Therefore we don’t need to go through the Son to get to the Father whom we are already with.”

      That’s what I mean by islamic theological incoherence. Muslims never “get to” god – such a suggestions is blasphemy. Allah is so transcendent that no human can possibly comprehend him – muslims have no clue what kind of being they worship, because he cannot be revealed to them.

      Regardless, where in the OT does it tell jews to pray 5 times, circle the kaaba, kiss a meteorite, and make the hajj to mecca?

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    • “where in the OT does it tell jews to pray 5 times, circle the kaaba, kiss a meteorite, and make the hajj to mecca?”
      Regardless your ignorance about Islamic rituals, but these are just rituals which could differ from time to time. However, you are the ones who are obligated to show us where OT does it ever tell jews to worship a son/trinity. These are not rituals, This is the nature of God.

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    • Abdullah

      “Regardless your ignorance about Islamic rituals, but these are just rituals which could differ from time to time. However, you are the ones who are obligated to show us where OT does it ever tell jews to worship a son/trinity. These are not rituals, This is the nature of God.”

      Lousy reasoning.

      The shema was not revealed to abraham, isaac or jacob, and these guys regularly encountered a single god with a plural nature. It’s all over the OT.

      As for rituals, where in the OT does god say to adopt pagan rituals, which we all know the sunnah tells muslims to do?

      As for the OT god’s nature, where in the OT does it say that allah has 99 attributes?

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    • “It’s all over the OT.”
      Why do only christians read this in OT? Neither jews nor muslims !

      ========================
      If you worship a human being literarily and proudly, how you even dare to accuse us of paganism?
      Stop this nonsense.

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    • @Ibn Issam: You don’t know your own quran:
      Surah 29:46
      And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, “We believe in that which has been revealed to us AND REVEALED TO YOU the Christians). AND OUR GOD AND YOUR GOD IS ONE; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him.”

      Abdullah: “Regardless your ignorance about Islamic rituals, but these are just rituals which could differ from time to time.”

      Man, you muslims surprise me over and over again. Muslim accuse christians many times that we don’t follow Jesus, because he prayed with his face down (only once, but I forgive you for this mistake), that he did not eat pork, did his ablution, had a beard, and so on.
      And now, you tell us: THESE ARE JUST RITUALS WHICH COULD DIFFER FROM TIME TO TIME

      Double standards???

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    • @Abdullah: Ask a Christian if he worship a human being and he says: NO, of course not, we worship God only! And you muslims keep saying, over and over again, that we worship a human being. Do you understand that we find you stubborn?

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    • Harry “How much does Saudi Arabia pay these guys to be a misleading muslim?”

      I get paid an obscenely large amount in gold for running this blog. Are you jealous?

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    • ABdullah

      “Why do only christians read this in OT? Neither jews nor muslims !”

      Untrue and ignorant…….

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/Two-Powers-Heaven-Christianity-Gnosticism/dp/039104172X

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bodies-God-World-Ancient-Israel/dp/0521518725

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/ELOHIM-They-Are-God-Shlomo/dp/0692430598

      All three of these jewish scholars acknowledge that a plural conception of god was accepted at the time of jesus and before, and for a while afterwards.

      “If you worship a human being literarily and proudly, how you even dare to accuse us of paganism?”

      I’m not accusing you of paganism, I pointed out that your own sources admit that your religious practices are of pagan origin.

      Like

    • ABdullah

      “Why do only christians read this in OT? Neither jews nor muslims !”

      In addition: Paul wrote this already, 2000 years ago. Paul was a very devout Judaist, highly educated in the Torah, on the best university. He was about to become a high positioned scholar, until he met Jesus. Read Romans 11:7-12:
      “What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, as it is written:

      “God gave them a spirit of stupor,
      eyes that could not see
      and ears that could not hear,
      to this very day.”

      And David says:
      “May their table become a snare and a trap,
      a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
      May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
      and their backs be bent forever.”

      Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!”

      Like

    • @Paul: “oh well. Time to move on then..”

      So you want to move on, ignoring the most essential things in life? Can you live with the idea that you have joined a religion, which has no answers for the most essential? When do we read again that you have left islam? Of are you afraid that you lose face? Isn’t it better to lose face than losing soul?

      Like

    • @Paul. You are still a muslim? I found some hilarious hadith. This is the religion you joined. Pretty rational, isn’t it?

      Sahih al-Bukhari Book 73 Hadith 245
      The Prophet said, “Allah loves sneezing but dislikes yawning;
      so if anyone of you sneezes and then praises Allah, every Muslim who hears him (praising Allah) has to say Tashmit to him. But as regards yawning, it is from Satan, so if one of you yawns, he should try his best to stop it, for when anyone of you yawns, Satan laughs at him.”

      Sahih al-Bukhari Book 54 Hadith 492
      It was mentioned before the Prophet that there was a man who slept the night till morning (after sunrise). The Prophet said, “He is a man in whose ears (or ear) Satan had urinated.”

      Sahih Muslim Book 42 Hadith 7149
      And he said: If one amongst you stands for prayer, Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, is before him he should not spit in front of him, or on his right side, but should spit on his left side beneath his left foot …

      Sahih Muslim Book 2 Hadith 512
      Abu Qatada reported it from his father that the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) said: When anyone amongst you enters the privy he should not touch his penis with his right hand.

      Sahih al-Bukhari Book 4 Hadith 163
      Allah’s Apostle said, “If anyone of you performs ablution he should put water in his nose and then blow it out and whoever cleans his private parts with stones should do so with odd numbers.

      Sahih al-Bukhari Book 54 Hadith 516
      The Prophet said, “If anyone of you rouses from sleep and performs the ablution, he should wash his nose by putting water in it and then blowing it out thrice, because Satan has stayed in the upper part of his nose all the night.”

      Sahih al-Bukhari Book 87 Hadith 115
      The Prophet said, “A good dream that comes true is from Allah, and a bad dream is from Satan, so if anyone of you sees a bad dream, he should seek refuge with Allah from Satan and should spit on the left, for the bad dream will not harm him.”

      Sahih Muslim Book 2 Hadith 514
      ‘A’isha reported: The Messenger of Allah (way peace be upon him) loved to start from the right-hand side for performing ablution, for combing (the hair) and wearing the shoes.

      Sahih al-Bukhari Book 72 Hadith 747
      Allah’s Apostle said, “If you want to put on your shoes, put on the right shoe first;
      and if you want to take them off, take the left one first.

      Sahih al-Bukhari Book 54 Hadith 449
      Abu Talha said that the Prophet said, “The Angels (of Mercy) do not enter a house wherein there is a picture.”

      Sahih Muslim Book 10 Hadith 3813
      Abu Zubair heard Jabir b. ‘Abdullah (Allah be pleased with him) saying: Allah’s Messenger (Peace be upon him) ordered us to kill dogs, and we carried out this order so much so that we also kill the dog coming with a woman from the desert. Then Allah’s Apostle (Peace be upon him) forbade their killing. He (the Holy Prophet further) said: It is your duty the jet-black (dog) having two spots (on the eyes), for it is a devil.

      Sahih al-Bukhari Book 11 Hadith 582
      Allah’s Apostle said, “When the Adhan is pronounced Satan takes to his heels and passes wind with noise during his flight in order not to hear the Adhan.

      Sunan Ibn Majah Book 1 Hadith 347
      It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said:
      “The Messenger of Allah passed by two new graves, and he said: ‘They are being punished, but they are not being punished for anything major. One of them was heedless about preventing urine from getting on his clothes, and the other used to walk about spreading malicious gossip.'”

      Sunan Ibn Majah Book 1 Hadith 348
      It was narrated that Abu Hurairah said:
      “The Messenger of Allah said: ‘Most of the torment of the grave is because of urine.'”

      Sahih Muslim Book 4 Hadith 1034
      Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) said: A woman, an ass and a dog disrupt the prayer, but something like the back of a saddle guards against that.

      Sunan Abu Dawood Book 1 Hadith 67
      I heard that the people asked the Prophet of Allah (Peace be upon him): Water is brought for you from the well of Buda’ah. It is a well in which dead dogs, menstrual clothes and excrement of people are thrown. The Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) replied: Verily water is pure and is not defiled by anything.

      Sahih al-Bukhari Book 55 Hadith 616
      Allah’s Apostle said, “(The Prophet) Moses was a shy person and used to cover his body completely because of his extensive shyness. One of the children of Israel hurt him by saying, ‘He covers his body in this way only because of some defect in his skin, either leprosy or scrotal hernia, or he has some other defect.’ Allah wished to clear Moses of what they said about him, so one day while Moses was in seclusion, he took off his clothes and put them on a stone and started taking a bath. When he had finished the bath, he moved towards his clothes so as to take them, but the stone took his clothes and fled;
      Moses picked up his stick and ran after the stone saying, ‘O stone! Give me my garment!’ Till he reached a group of Bani Israel who saw him naked then, and found him the best of what Allah had created, and Allah cleared him of what they had accused him of. The stone stopped there and Moses took and put his garment on and started hitting the stone with his stick. By Allah, the stone still has some traces of the hitting, three, four or five marks. This was what Allah refers to in His Saying:– “O you who believe! Be you not like those Who annoyed Moses, But Allah proved his innocence of that which they alleged, And he was honorable In Allah’s Sight.” (33.69)

      Sahih al-Bukhari Book 54 Hadith 482
      Allah’s Apostle said, “The (Hell) Fire complained to its Lord saying, ‘O my Lord! My different parts eat up each other.’ So, He allowed it to take two breaths, one in the winter and the other in summer, and this is the reason for the severe heat and the bitter cold you find (in weather).”

      Sahih al-Bukhari Book 55 Hadith 546
      Why does a child resemble its father, and why does it resemble its maternal uncle” Allah’s Apostle said, “Gabriel has just now told me of their answers.” ‘Abdullah said, “He (i.e. Gabriel), from amongst all the angels, is the enemy of the Jews.” Allah’s Apostle said, “The first portent of the Hour will be a fire that will bring together the people from the east to the west;
      the first meal of the people of Paradise will be Extra-lobe (caudate lobe) of fish-liver. As for the resemblance of the child to its parents: If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her.”

      Sahih al-Bukhari Book 55 Hadith 611
      The Prophet said, “Were it not for Bani Israel, meat would not decay;
      and were it not for Eve, no woman would ever betray her husband.”

      Sahih al-Bukhari Book 52 Hadith 105
      The Prophet said, “If somebody keeps a horse in Allah’s Cause motivated by his faith in Allah and his belief in His Promise, then he will be rewarded on the Day of Resurrection for what the horse has eaten or drunk and for its dung and urine.”

      Like

    • Lots of Hadith – no context, no explanation. What’s your problem dude?

      Like

    • I don’t have a problem, christianity does not have these silly hadith. And we can answer tough questions. It is you and your fake religion who have a problem, but you hide yourself behind excuses like ‘context’ and ‘what scholars’ say.

      Like

    • What a rude individual you are. I really feel the LOVE you and many other Christians show to Muslims.

      Bye.

      Like

  8. Harry
    November 12, 2016 • 12:04 pm

    I did not say you are intelligent, the previous replier said that.
    But you are probably intelligent enough to read Matthew 12:43-45.
    If your intellect fails to understand the meaning of these verses, I am very happy to explain these

    I say;
    You call Nabeel who did not know he will be killed by his hosts if dares goes to Syria to fight as Qadiani intelligent man but refuse to call Paul Williams who like Dr. Jerald Dirks, Christian Deacon and Masters of Divinity, Dr. Lawrence Brown a Physician, Dr. Ingrid Matson a Philosopher and religious expert, etc. use their research and intellect to convert to Islam as intelligent people.

    Thanks.

    Like

  9. Harry
    November 12, 2016 • 12:38 pm

    You hit the nail on his head: muslims kill each other because they follow the religion of ‘peace’.
    One of the well-known scholars is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. He has a doctorate for Islamic studies in Quranic studies, from Saddam University in Baghdad. He obtained a BA, MA, and PhD in Islamic studies from the Islamic University of Baghdad. He is a native Arabic speaker. So if these are the right criteria, follow him

    I say;
    Do not change the topic. It is why David Wood, Nabeel Quraish, Jay Smith etc. are liars and do not qualify to interpret the Quran.

    It does not mean those who have the qualifications like Baghdadi cannot misinterpret it.

    Christian history shows they kill each other and it has been discussed here thoroughly and over and over. So back to topic.

    Your spiritual advisors like David Wood, Jay Smith, Nabeel etc. are liars and do not have the qualifications to interpret the Quran and Islam. They must go to school and be better qualified like John L. Esposito of George town university, Dr. Graig Considine, Dr. Jerald Dirks. Dr. Lawrence Brown etc.

    Thanks.

    Like

    • “Christian history shows they kill each other and it has been discussed here thoroughly and over and over.”

      We don’t live in history, we live now. Jesus never taught us to fight each other. Muhammad didn’t know the real Jesus, because he had another agenda. So he distorted Jesus’ words to achieve his own evil goals.

      Like

    • Harry

      You can call Paul Williams not intelligent. We know Paul Williams is intelligent.

      Nabeel Quraish
      Ken Temple
      Mike Licona
      Dr. James White
      Sam Shamoun
      etc.
      all knew Paul Williams is intelligent and they engage with him in one way or the other. James White knows him very well and mentions him several times in his programs. Mike Licona engages him in a series of replies orchestrated by Sam Shamoun.

      Sam Shamoun always insults us and insults Paul Williams but praises Paul Williams as the truth and trustworthy. Paul Williams speak against us including me when we unfairly criticize Christians. Nabeel, Wood, Jay etc. are not trustworthy people to depend on them.

      At least Sam is better at least he did not tell lies about travelling to Syria to fight knowing very well he could not have done that.

      Nabeel will lie about his former religion and about himself. Sam Shamoun tells lies about Islam and everyone knows but he does not tell lies about travelling to fight were he could not.

      Lets face it, Nabeel’s lies is worse than all of them.

      Thanks

      Like

    • Where did I say that he is not intelligent? It seems that you don’t read my replies well.
      But why is he not able to answer tough question? He ignores these all.

      Like

    • maybe he does not want to.

      Like

    • You can keep your head in the sand until you die. No problem. But there comes a moment that you cannot hide yourself for these questions and you have to answer these before the throne of God. And what will be your answer than?

      Like

  10. Harry

    November 12, 2016 • 1:07 pm
    “Christian history shows they kill each other and it has been discussed here thoroughly and over and over.”
    We don’t live in history, we live now. Jesus never taught us to fight each other. Muhammad didn’t know the real Jesus, because he had another agenda. So he distorted Jesus’ words to achieve his own evil goals

    I say;
    May be you are new to this blog. If you scroll on this blog you will see discussions upon discussion where Jesus as God and Prophet commanded genocide, killing of babies, sex etc. I will not repeat it because it was exhausted here.

    I will give you this from Jesus.

    Luke 19:27

    New International Version
    But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them–bring them here and kill them in front of me.’

    Christians were stopped by force and freedom of religion slapped on them by force. Muslims have freedom of religion is the Quran and hadith. No one has to force freedom of religion on Muslims that is why you see Christians still in Muslim majority lands despite the evangelical Christians Bush/Blair inspired war on Muslim lands, Christians are still living in Muslim majority lands.

    Thanks.

    Like

    • You stubborn muslims. This verse in Luke has been explained, over and over again. You cherry pick verses and ignore the context. You always accuse christians to ignore the context, you muslims are even worse.
      This is part of a parable, Jesus told. This verse is not applicable to Jesus followers, it tells us what happens in Judgement day.

      Like

    • He is a student of the clown, so what do you expect?
      The majority of his audience is from this type.

      Liked by 1 person

    • WOW, these replies make sense!

      Liked by 1 person

    • They make sense. Believe me, you will find the stupidity of what the clown does for you in the long run, and maybe in the short one if you can able to use your brain. David is a liar. He always applies his own understanding coming from western secular values to interpret Quran and Sunnah. Also, His ignorance in hadiths, language of Quran, and basic rules of Fiqh are the theme of his videos. Sometimes, he’s just bluffing such as his interpretation of taqiyyah. He always uses the double standard approaching Islam. However, since his audience are ignorant in Islam, they think he is making points while he’s just revealing his ignorance and bigotry against muslims.
      He did lie about Nabeel’s ex faith, for example. That man is a psycho.

      When some christians criticized his style, he answered that the best way to approach muslims is to use the shock style ( i.e lies, mocking Islam). However, I challenge him and all those trolls like him (Nabeel, Jay, and Tony) to use the same style with jews. Would David even dare to use the same style the “prince of peace” used? You know such as addressing jews like this (Vipers, snakes, sons of Satan). Let the clown shock jews about the reality of their belief which doesn’t include the son.
      Finally, those verses that you think muslims are stubborn about, they have been used by some of the church fathers to justify killing heretics. It’s not about stubborn muslims, it’s about you are ignornat in the interpretation of your bible.

      Like

    • Abdullah: nobody will say that David does not make mistakes. You focus on David only, but there are several other christian apologists, also with an Arabian and islamic background and educated in the islamic doctrine, who say similar things about islam. They will not always agree with each other, but they agree about many other topics.
      And not only christian apologists, but also atheistic ex-muslims with knowledge of the arabian language and islamic doctrine agree with many topics christian apologists use.

      When you talk about double standards, you have to look in the mirror, too. I already said something about that, like cherry picking Luke 19:27. You do exactly the same! You judge the bible like you judge the quran. You read the bible like you read the quran. You think that christians think like muslims. Muslims don’t have the right knowledge about the bible.
      That is exactly the same!

      When you quote verse like ‘the Father is greater than I’, you ignore verses where it is said clearly that Jesus had the Divine nature. Or you call it contradictions, and don’t even think why these verses are both in the bible. Do you really think that we christians don’t know that these are both in the bible? And that Christians never thought about these apparently contradictions? Christians do have a much longer history than muslims. The bible encourage it’s readers to question the bible and test everything. The quran condemns this.
      The christian faith is criticized by ‘enlightened’ thinkers from the 19th century. We have done a huge amount of research in old manuscripts and we know much more more about the history of christianity, than muslims know about history of the islam. You rely on islamic writings and traditions from 200-300 years after Muhammad’s death. There are barely historic writings from the 7th century.

      It is very weak if you call the opponents clowns. That means that you have nothing more to say.

      Regarding Luke 19:27. I know no single protestant scholar, from now and the past, who explains this verses als a legitimation to kill heretics. If some scholars taught that, they were wrong. Like you say that ISIS explains the quran and hadith wrong.

      Like

  11. Graham

    You said;
    That’s what I mean by islamic theological incoherence. Muslims never “get to” god – such a suggestions is blasphemy. Allah is so transcendent that no human can possibly comprehend him – muslims have no clue what kind of being they worship, because he cannot be revealed to them.

    I say;
    The Bible said God is unapproachable and invincible. The Bible said so. How can invisible God reveal Himself?

    If God goes on revealing Himself as a creature, how do you know at a point in time God did not reveal Himself as a Hindu God-Cow, Monkey, Sai Baba etc.?

    Harry

    You said;

    Harry
    November 12, 2016 • 3:39 pm
    @Abdullah: Ask a Christian if he worship a human being and he says: NO, of course not, we worship God only! And you muslims keep saying, over and over again, that we worship a human being. Do you understand that we find you stubborn?

    I say;
    What will you say about Hindu who says he worships God and the God he refers is a cow shitting on the streets of India? Will you accept that creature as God? If yes, then we have multiple Gods but the Bible says God is one, only and alone.

    We see Jesus Christ as a creature like all creatures who goes to toilet and shits. So Jesus Christ of Nazareth is not God.

    Moses did not worship Jesus Christ, neither Abraham or all prophets of God. They all worship THE ONLY TRUE GOD OF ABRAHAM and Jesus worshiped the only true God and Jesus is not included.

    John 17:3
    New International Version
    Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent

    Thanks.

    Like

    • Abdullah: “We see Jesus Christ as a creature like all creatures who goes to toilet and shits. So Jesus Christ of Nazareth is not God.”

      You are still a cherry picking muslim. Don’t you learn? I can show many other verses that clearly say that Jesus is God.

      And who cares about what you see? It is not about what you see, nor what I see, but about what God has revealed to us. And God has revealed to us that Jesus is God. He had both divine and human nature. That is what I read in the bible, God’s revelation. Does that mean that we have to understand the nature of God? Do you understand the nature of God? I guess not. And if it regards the bible, we have to understand the nature of God and what God has revealed to us. You hypocrites!

      Like

    • Sorry, it was not Abdullah, it was Intellect

      Like

    • Intellect

      “The Bible said God is unapproachable and invincible. The Bible said so. How can invisible God reveal Himself?”

      Why don’t you read the bible before trying to tell me what is in it?

      The bible repeatedly talks about god speaking in person to his people – the god of the bible is not reliant on his creatures to get his message across like allah.

      In the bible god himself comes down to earth to reveal himself and his will.

      Be honest, you don;t know what you are talking about.

      Like

  12. Harry

    You said;
    I think that he is being paid for being a muslim. He does not look like a muslim, he is western, so they think that he is the ‘perfect’ man to mislead guileless people. Just like the islamic professors Lumbard, Hamza and Brown. How much does Saudi Arabia pay these guys to be a misleading muslim?

    I say;
    You do not look at Nabeel Quraish designer suits and his ministry’s rich from evangelical Christians to lie about Islam.

    Poor Paul Williams. If he is getting money from Saudi Arabia, his blog would have been flashy like David Wood or Dr. James White’s web sites which are professionally designed and catchy.

    Just look at Nabeels designer cloths and it is just like Creflo A. Dollar, Joel Olsteen, Benny Hinn, T. B. Joshua, T. D. Jake etc. who swims in money.

    Thanks.

    Liked by 1 person

    • I thought that you all are so intelligent that you would understand that I meant this ironically.
      I don’t care if someone is paid for this, I care about the truth.

      Liked by 1 person

  13. Harry

    You said;
    And who cares about what you see? It is not about what you see, nor what I see, but about what God has revealed to us. And God has revealed to us that Jesus is God. He had both divine and human nature. That is what I read in the bible, God’s revelation. Does that mean that we have to understand the nature of God? Do you understand the nature of God? I guess not. And if it regards the bible, we have to understand the nature of God and what God has revealed to us. You hypocrites!

    I say;
    It has been revealed in somebody’s scripture that God is a cow shitting on the street of India. Are you ready to accept that cow shitting on the streets of India as God?

    If not then you are a hypocrite. I am not a hypocrite because I do not accept any creature including Jesus as God.

    The Bible said God is invincible and unapproachable, so God cannot reveal Himself to any one for now.

    Thanks.

    Like

    • You are funny, even the quran says that the Torah, the Gospel and the Scripture (the Scripture contains both Torah and Gospel), are the God’s revelations. So your comment about the Indian cow is bull-shit (sorry, cow-shit).
      And if you do not accept what is in the bible, you do not accept what is in God’s revelation, so you are a heretic.

      Sutah 5:43
      But how is it that they come to you for judgement while they have the Torah, in which is the judgement of Allah ? Then they turn away, [even] after that; but those are not [in fact] believers.

      Surah 5:47
      And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah HAS REVEALED THEREIN. And whoever DOES NOT JUDGE BY WHAT ALLAH HAS REVEALED – then it is THOSE WHO ARE THE DEFIANTLY DISOBEDIENT.

      Like

  14. Harry

    November 12, 2016 • 6:50 pm

    I thought that you all are so intelligent that you would understand that I meant this ironically.
    I don’t care if someone is paid for this, I care about the truth.

    I say;
    The truth is God is not a creature at all and God does not go to toilet and shit. Jesus is a creature and eats food and ultimately goes to toilet and shit and so Jesus is not God.

    Cow, Monkey, Man, snake, ant, angel, satan etc. are not God. God of Abraham is one and only true God and he is the one who sent Jesus Christ.

    How can Jesus be God if he was sent by God? who is the only true God and 1.

    Thanks.

    Like

    • I am afraid that you have not read well what I wrote, or you have a filter and cannot see what other people write. I friendly ask you to read this again. If you do not understand this, please ask:

      “And God has revealed to us that Jesus is God. He had both divine and human nature. That is what I read in the bible, God’s revelation. Does that mean that we have to understand the nature of God? Do you understand the nature of God? I guess not. And if it regards the bible, we have to understand the nature of God and what God has revealed to us. You hypocrites”

      Like

  15. Harry

    You said;
    Harry
    November 12, 2016 • 6:57 pm
    You are funny, even the quran says that the Torah, the Gospel and the Scripture (the Scripture contains both Torah and Gospel), are the God’s revelations. So your comment about the Indian cow is bull-shit (sorry, cow-shit).
    And if you do not accept what is in the bible, you do not accept what is in God’s revelation, so you are a heretic.

    I say;
    The current Bible does not have some books in it i.e. the Shepherd Hemas, Epistle of Banabas and Catholics have more books, Ethiopian orthodox have different books. We have other scriptures like the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Judas, infant Gospel of Thomas etc. which are all scriptures that the Bible of the Books used. The Quran is not referring to the current Bible.

    The canonized gospels were canonized and other gospels were either rejected or lost. So the current composition of the Bible is not what the Quran is referring to.

    Stop studying from David Wood because he does not know Islam and he is not an Islamic scholar. Start to study from Islamic scholars who are Christians and some of them are Dr. John L. Esposito, Dr. Graig Considine and atheist like Karen Armstrong or Jewish Lesley Hazelton.

    The knew Arabic and will tell David Wood that he does not know Arabic and cannot interpret the Quran and Hadith.

    Thanks.

    Like

    • You remain funny. You have no clue about the christian history. We know exactly what the Christians had in the time that Muhammad lived. They had exactly the same bible we have now. All the non-canonized books you mention have never been part of the bible and have always been heretic books.

      The gospel the christians had in the 7th century contained also the gospel we have now. There is no single historical evidence that the other gospels were accepted by Christians, only some heretic or sectarian groups used these books. These books are not from the 1st century, so it is impossible that these were given to Jesus.
      The bible we have now has always the bible since 1st-2nd century. There were only some discussions about some books, but those were not the books you mentioned.

      It is also funny that you are telling another story that many stories I already heard. Some say that Paul corrupted the gospel, others say that the council of nicea corrupted the gospel, there are saying the Constantine corrupted the gospel, and so on. Is it not possible that muslims tell ONE story about the corruption of the bible? Or does the truth have many different stories? The truth can only have one story, not many. So muslims proof over and over again that they cannot be consistent, so you are not reliable at all regarding the corruption of the bible.

      Stop saying that I study David Wood. I am pretty much able to study myself.

      Like

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