A Response to Richard Zetter’s ‘[T]hey kill and are killed’ for Paradise -‘a true promise…in the…Gospel’?

Richard Zetter recently made this post on BT. This is a quick response to his claims about Quran 9:111. He’s one of the more sincere Christians so it’s important for Muslims to invest more time in dialogue with people like him.

paradise

It appears Richard  has had an oversight here and misunderstood the Verse. He contends the Verse teaches there’s a promise of Paradise in the Gospel and the Torah for those who kill and are killed for Allah. He states:

This verse promises Paradise for those who kill and are killed, fighting in the cause of Allah. It claims that such a promise is to be found in the Gospel.

I’ve looked into this and I don’t see this as a theme in the commentaries. In fact the translators don’t seem to indicate this either. They seem to indicate the Verse teaches God promises Paradise to those who shun the ephemeral (by submitting one’s will to God).

It is explicitly stated in Maulana Muhammad Ali’s commentary that the Promise mentioned in the previous Scriptures is not concerning fighting/killing for God:

It should be borne in mind that the words they fight in Allah’s way, so they slay and are slain, are not a part of the promise, but are expressive of the condition of the Companions, and show that they were true to their promise. The promise to spend one’s person and property may be carried out in various ways under different circumstances, and the Companions of the Holy Prophet were as true to this promise during the thirteen years at Makkah as during the ten years at Madinah.” [Source]

The Study Quran also appears to teach the Promise refers to the purchase by God of the souls and wealth of the believers (it does not talk about killing or being killed).

Nouman Ali Khan states the Promise includes all Muslims and is not specifically concerning those who kill or are killed for God – again indicating he would not be expecting the previous Scriptures contain a Promise of Paradise for those who kill and/or kill for God but rather a Promise for those who have given up the world for devotion to Allah. Concerning those who kill/killed for God in just warfare, Nouman Ali Khan states this is the highest manifestation of this Promise but every Muslim is included in the Promise thus it is not confined to people on the battle field fighting for what is right.

Richard used the Sahih International translation and perhaps got a little confused but I will furnish other translations which are perhaps discern the Promise (underlined) from the statement concerning those who kill or are killed thus indicating they do not believe the Verse teaches the part about killing and being killed for God is in the Torah and the Gospel:

BEHOLD, God has bought of the believers their lives and their possessions, promising them paradise in return, ,[and so] they fight in God’s cause, and slay, and are slain: a promise which in truth He has willed upon Himself in [the words of] the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Qur’an. And who could be more faithful to his covenant than God? Rejoice, then, in the bargain which you have made with Him: for this, this is the triumph supreme! [Muhammad Asad trans of Q 9:111]

GOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran – and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph. [Rashad trans. of Q 9:111]

God has purchased from the believers their persons and their goods, for (in return) theirs is the Garden. They shall fight in the cause of God, and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise that is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel, and the Qur’an. Who can fulfill a promise better than God? Rejoice then in the bargain you have made, for that is the Supreme Triumph. [Shabir Ahmed trans. of Q 9:111]

There’s extra significance to Shabir Ahmed’s translation as it carries a footnote in which he does offer Biblical verses which he believes Q 9:111 references. Interestingly enough he does not try and offer anything about killing or being killed for Paradise but rather posits verses about willingly submitting one’s will to God. He cites Deut 6:4-5:

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

In addition to this there are other references I reckon he cites from the NT, The Gospel of Matthew. I can’t be 100% here as the formatting leaves it uncertain but you can check it for yourself. I think it’s reasonable to assume he refers to Matthew 6:32-33 which I think is an instruction to prioritise God over everything worldly.

32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Here’s another I think he references. This seems to be close to the money, a Promise to compensate, with Paradise, those who have sacrificed this world for God. Matthew 19:29:

29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

I also think he refers to Matthew 10:39 which I believe Christians would interpret as whoever shuns this life will get the Hereafter (ever lasting life):

39Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

Syed Abul A’ala Maududi in his commentary talks about what the Promise is (again note the absence of talk concerning being killed/killing for God):

In this verse that aspect of the Islamic faith which determines the nature of the relationship between Allah and His servants has been called a transaction. This means that faith is not merely a metaphysical conception but is, in fact, a contract by which the servant sells his life and possessions to Allah and in return for this accepts His promise that He would give him the Garden in the life after death

Then he discusses parts of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament which allude to the Promise (notice he’s not looking for verses about fighting or martyrdom) but rather a renouncement of the lower life in submission to God for the Eternal Life:

Some critics say that the statement of promise in the Torah and the Gospel is not confirmed by these Books. Their objection in regard to the Gospel is obviously wrong for even in the existing Gospels there are sayings of Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) that confirm this verse. For instance:

“Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” (MAT. 5: 10).

“He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.” (MAT. 10: 39).

“And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold and shall inherit everlasting life.” (MAT. 19: 29).

It is, however, true that the matter of this transaction is not confirmed in its entirety by the existing Torah. For instance, there is a mention of the first part of the bargain at several places in one forth or the other: “Is not He thy father that hath bought thee? hath He not made thee, and established thee?” (DEUT. 32: 6).

“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.” (DEUT. 6: 4-5).

But as regards the other part of the bargain, that is, the promise of the Gardens, they applied it to the land of Palestine:

“Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.” (DEUT. 6: 3).

This is because the Torah does not give any conception of the life-after-death, the Day of Judgment, rewards and punishments in the Hereafter, though this creed has always been an inseparable part of the right way. This does not, however, mean that the Torah did not originally contain this creed. The fact is that the Jews had become so materialistic during the period of their degeneration that they had no other idea of a reward from God than the wellbeing and prosperity in this world. Therefore they perverted all the promises made by God in return for man’s service and obedience to Him and applied those to the land of Palestine.

In this connection, it should also be noted that the above mentioned changes became possible because the original Torah had been tampered with in several ways. Some portions were taken away from it and others were added to it. Thus, the Torah in the existing form is not purely the word of God but also contains the comments, etc. of the Jewish scholars mixed up with it. So much so that at some places it becomes difficult to distinguish the word of God from the Jewish traditions, their racial prejudices, their superstitions, their ambitions and, wishes, their legal interpretations, etc. all of which have gotten mixed with the word of God. (See E.N. 2 of Aal-Imran).

Abdullah Yusuf Ali’s commentary also indicates the Promise (that was in the Torah and the Injeel) is that concerning the covenant of redemption: one must surrender oneself completely in exchange for ever lasting life (Paradise). He goes on to say this surrender may include fighting for the cause, but again he does not seem to think the Promise mentioned in the previous Scripture was that concerning killing or being killed for God

C1362. We offer our whole selves and our possessions to Allah, and Allah gives us Salvation. This is the true doctrine of redemption: and we are taught that this is the doctrine not only of the Quran but of the earlier Revelations, -the original Law of Moses and the original Gospel of Jesus.

Any other view of redemption is rejected by Islam, especially that of corrupted Christianity, which thinks that some other person suffered for our sins and we are redeemed by his blood. It is our self-surrender that counts, not other people’s merits.

Our complete self-surrender may include fighting for the cause, both spiritual and physical. As regards actual fighting with the sword there has been some difference in theological theories at different times, but very little in the practice of those who framed those theories…

…The monkish morality of the Gospels in their present form has never been followed by any self-respecting Christian or other nation in history. Nor is it common-sense to ignore lust of blood in unregenerate man as a form of evil which has to be combated “within the limits, set by Allah” (9:112). (R). [Source]

I think there’s a lot here for Richard to consider, I trust he will  look into this and make the relevant corrections if he is convinced by the evidence to do so.



Categories: Islam

53 replies

  1. Thank you so much!

    I believe that this serves as a brilliant example to all religious! We should be able to engage in interfaith dialogue where we find that our faiths essentially instruct us equally! I was a Muslim-convert from agnosticism then found my way back to the true light of Christ and so it is important to me especially that Christians and Muslims work more effectively and eagerly at bridging the imaginary differences between us!

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    • Danielle, as I am sure you know, Muslims revere Jesus the Christ so I don’t understand why you say you left Islam.

      Like

    • It was a long and tough decision but to put it simply…

      I left Islam because of two things:
      1. Our salvation is always regarded in terms of doubts. There is this coupling of sovereignty and mercy whereby e told consistently to be righteous and perhaps God will be merciful and let you into Jannah but at the same time, God is sovereign so no matter what you don’t truly know if you’ve been righteous enough. It left me feeling always unworthy, not good enough, doubtful.

      2. I have never felt further from God as I did when I was Muslim. I guess, I was having so many doubts about whether or not I was a decent enough believer that it became almost impossible to connect even in salah.

      When I started to read the bible and the Gospels, Jesus’s words just resonated with me. It was as though all the fears of being unworthy and unloved melted.

      Liked by 1 person

    • “I left Islam because of two things: Our salvation is always regarded in terms of doubts.”

      Did you not know that Muslims have a guarantee of salvation and promise from God about this?

      Allah states:

      Surah 9:72

      Allah has promised to the believers -men and women, – Gardens under which rivers flow to dwell therein forever, and beautiful mansions in Gardens of ‘Adn (Eden Paradise). But the greatest bliss is the Good Pleasure of Allah. That is the supreme success.

      Allah also states:

      Surah 3:9

      Verily, Allah never breaks His Promise

      Now if you ask the Muslim “are you going to paradise?” he is going to say to you “if Allah wills” (insha’allah). The well informed Muslim is not going to tell you “Yes I am going paradise for sure.” No, the Muslim hopes and prays that he will end up in paradise. It’s not because the Muslim is worried whether Allah will keep His promise, for as we have seen Allah does not break His promise. Rather, it is because the Muslim cannot be sure whether he would continue remaining on the straight path and die as a Muslim and the guarantee or promise of salvation is conditional in remaining and dying as a Muslim.

      Liked by 7 people

    • I will now need to do some praying and reading. I have never ever had salvation explained like this….

      Liked by 7 people

    • Please return if you have any more questions or doubts 🙂

      Liked by 5 people

    • “1. Our salvation is always regarded in terms of doubts. There is this coupling of sovereignty and mercy whereby e told consistently to be righteous and perhaps God will be merciful and let you into Jannah but at the same time, God is sovereign so no matter what you don’t truly know if you’ve been righteous enough. It left me feeling always unworthy, not good enough, doubtful.”

      the quran says “for them is FORGIVENESS and a great reward”

      notice that forgiveness precede reward?
      indicating PERFECTION is not a condition

      Like

    • Salvation is found in Christ alone.

      Acts 4:12
      “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.””
      ‭‭

      Don’t let the crafty Muhammadans on this blog try to deceive you, Danielle.

      Like

    • Muhammadan is not a term and it definitely is not the way to address followers of Islam. Use Muslims, believers, “those who follow Islam,” any of those but most certainly not Muhammadan. That term has a lot of bad tied to it.

      Liked by 3 people

    • lol, not according to the jews :

      “God is close to all who call upon Him, to all who call upon Him sincerely” (Psalm 145:18)

      no christ needed.

      Liked by 4 people

    • Jesus Christ *is* GOD.

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    • dude there is only one God and Jesus worshiped him:

      Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'”

      John 20:17.

      Liked by 1 person

    • why wouldn’t god the son worship god the father? anyone here love his dad?

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    • 1. I don’t think you know what worship means, because there is none of it going on in the scripture you just cited.

      2. And If you truly believe Jesus said those words in John 20:17, then appealing to it doesn’t help your position but works against you seeing as Jesus calls God His Father, contradicting your Quran.

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    • Btw, Edward.

      That verse doesn’t mean what you seem to be implying that it means.

      Psalm 145 has nothing to do with salvation.

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    • There cannot be 2 Gods, Paul. By definition.

      Jesus, His Father and the Holy Spirit are One God.

      H20 = water, steam and ice. Exactly the same molecule. Exactly.

      How was he born of a virgin if he was not God? Paul, that makes no sense. To be conceived without a human father contribution is impossible. We are not talking about myths. The Qur’an says he was born of a virgin. That is impossible, unless he is divine.

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    • Furious Stylez

      what do you mean by ‘salvation’?

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    • “jesus khrist *is* gOD.”

      “God is close to all who call upon Him, to all who call upon Him sincerely” (Psalm 145:18)

      where in any of this verse is there even 1 indication that there are two “hims” ?

      the condition is sincerity , not jesus or a person from a group of 3.

      where in this verse does it say

      father —–> bloody go between ——–> man

      man ——> sacrificed yhwh ———> heavenly yhwh

      jesus is redundant and not required.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Hank, yo wrote:

      ‘The Qur’an says he was born of a virgin. That is impossible, unless he is divine.’

      A non sequitur. God can do miracles. He miraculously created Jesus in the womb of Mary.

      Like

    • “Psalm 145 has nothing to do with salvation.”

      your sacrificed god is not required when calling out to God or salvation.

      Like

    • Paul Williams

      Do you believe Jesus said those words in John 20:17?

      Like

    • Furious Stylez

      it is at least possible. After all there is nothing remarkable about a Jew like Jesus saying he has a God.

      Now back to my question: what do you mean by ‘salvation’?

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    • “Jesus, His Father and the Holy Spirit are One God.

      H20 = water, steam and ice. Exactly the same molecule. Exactly”

      i have always told christians that each person in trinity is really the same person.

      it is like one person looking at himself in the mirror and then the same person in the mirror starts to speak back and say

      ” i know what you know”

      “i see what you see”

      “i hear what you hear”

      it’s the same person but separate in the sense that it independently has self knowledge, sight and hearing.

      Like

    • Paul Williams

      He calls God “My Father and YOUR Father”

      The point is If Jesus truly spoke those words then it’s one piece of clear evidence that the Quran is false.

      Like

    • “Psalm 145 has nothing to do with salvation.”

      okay, show me where in the entire hebrew bible does it say that one needs to believe that yhwh ritually sacrificed himself and one needs to believe in yhwhs sacrifice before one can have relationship with yhwh

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    • ‘The Qur’an says he was born of a virgin. That is impossible, unless he is divine.’

      A non sequitur. God can do miracles. He miraculously created Jesus in the womb of Mary.

      Yes, Paul. That’s it. God performed a miracle and His son was born to a virgin. No reason to have Christ born to a version if he wasn’t God.

      Like

    • “Yes, Paul. That’s it. God performed a miracle and His son was born to a virgin. No reason to have Christ born to a version if he wasn’t God.”

      r u saying god found himself in uterus?

      Liked by 1 person

    • “what do you mean by ‘salvation’?”

      Being saved. Saved from God’s wrath and judgement of sin. That is only available through Christ.

      Like

    • “Being saved. Saved from God’s wrath and judgement of sin. That is only available through Christ.”

      gods wrath and judgement came in noah’s time. god said noah saved himself

      even if these three men–Noah, Daniel and Job–were in it, they could save only themselves by their righteousness, declares the Sovereign LORD.

      so once again, jesus is redundant.

      Like

    • Greetings Danielle,

      Salam from Jakarta 😉

      Im in a hurry but allow me to briefly share to you that orthodox Islam unambiguously holds that God rewards the believers paradise purely through His Mercy and under no obligation or requirement to do so – and certainly not via our deeds. Simply, God Almighty will put us in heaven if we believe Him. Thats guaranteed even though we can not brag about it, as arrogance is a sign of weak faith. So our good deeds are not a factor but rather a sign to the believer of God’s Mercy being upon him.

      God has promised to the believers -men and women, – Gardens under which rivers flow to dwell therein forever, and beautiful mansions in Gardens of ‘Adn (Eden Paradise). But the greatest bliss is the Good Pleasure of Allâh. That is the supreme success. (Q 9:72)

      May God the Most High guides us to His Truth.

      Liked by 1 person

    • @ Paul Williams
      “Now if you ask the Muslim “are you going to paradise?” he is going to say to you “if Allah wills” (insha’allah). The well informed Muslim is not going to tell you “Yes I am going paradise for sure.” No, the Muslim hopes and prays that he will end up in paradise. It’s not because the Muslim is worried whether Allah will keep His promise, for as we have seen Allah does not break His promise. Rather, it is because the Muslim cannot be sure whether he would continue remaining on the straight path and die as a Muslim and the guarantee or promise of salvation is conditional in remaining and dying as a Muslim.”

      What a great and easy to understand explanation!! Beautiful!!

      As far as i am aware there is no verse anywhere in the Bible where God himself promises us paradise or salvation using the actual word “promise.” His promise of salvation only appears in Qur’an, & the promise of Allah is true!!

      Liked by 2 people

  2. “2. I have never felt further from God as I did when I was Muslim. I guess, I was having so many doubts about whether or not I was a decent enough believer that it became almost impossible to connect even in salah.”

    alright. so when you were muslim , nobody explain to you about ihsaan, tazkiyah and matters relating to the heart?
    your doubts were cleared when you thought distant god came down and died for you?

    Like

  3. Paul, unrelated, check this:

    “Jesus Wept: How Can You Call Yourself a Christian If You Voted for Donald Trump?”

    http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/jesus-wept-how-can-you-call-yourself-christian-if-you-voted-donald-trump

    Liked by 1 person

    • did god find himself in a uterus?
      ask the holy ghost

      Like

    • “O Jesus, I will cause you to die, and exalt you to My presence, and clear you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve till the day of Judgment.” (3:54)

      How can we follow Him, if He is with You and we don’t know what He said?

      Like

    • If Jesus Christ is God’s son and if He said, “Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.” Then, if someone asks Him to come into them, He will. If He’s not God, He cannot do that. If He’s not real, then He cannot fulfill the promise quoted here from the New Testament.

      Like

    • can satan come into gods mind?

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  4. Thanks to Yahya Snow for writing a great response to Richard Zetters incorrect understanding about Qur’an. Yahya has clarified the verse in question by referencing Islamic commentary which undermines Richards position. If Richard is the sincere Christian that we think he is then I am sure he will agree to publicly stating that his claim on this issue was incorrect. Or is that too much to ask?

    Liked by 1 person

    • I’m confident he will do so. I’ve seen so many Christian polemicists throw out polemics that have been based on a faulty understandings or even fabricated sources yet after the correction they did not take ownership and responsibility for their mistakes. Due to their silence other Christians copied the same mistakes assuming the arguments were sound and this perpetuated the problem of misinformation coming out of the online missionary camp. In turn this just increases the distrust of Christian missionaries.apologists amongst Muslims. I could name names and give examples.

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  5. Prophet Muhammad did not misunderstand this verse. He (peace be upon him) did not like war at all.

    When he returned to Makkah after the Quraish broke their treaty, he did not take revenge on the Quraish but forgave them.

    I don’t know of any leader in the history of the world who did this even though the pagan Quraish tortured and killed the followers of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). For instance Abu Sufyan had Khubayb ibn Adiy tortured after capturing him…he was tortured to death.

    We should call a spade a spade. Prophet Muhammad was a beautiful human being…the last prophet God sent to us to free us from idolatry and our desires and blasphemy such as the trinity, etc. and the consequences of idolatry, worshipping our desires, and engaging in blasphemy on our eternal hereafter.

    And we must remember that the message of Islam is safeguarded in the Qur’an. The only text in Islam that is fully protected by God from any falsehoods is the Qur’an. And among the revelations sent by God, the only one that God has preserved for all time is the Qur’an.

    Paul, thank you for your beautiful advice to Danielle.

    Danielle, please read the Illuminating Qur’an everyday and based on your last comment I assume you do so with an open mind and open heart and a heart loving and submissive to God….

    Also please keep reading this blog.

    Peace be upon you and may God’s mercy and blessing be upon you Sister Danielle.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Are you saying he never killed or ordered others to kill?

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    • Not Like Jesus according to the NT and the OT (Which cristians think was from Jesus being one of the schizophrenic entities in the demonic trinity myth)

      Like

    • @thirstforknowledge why are referring Christianity here. Can’t Islam stand by itself. The question is did Mohammed kill or not and the answer is YES.

      Like

    • Of course he did kill Brother/sister Aida (much like David, Joshua and Moses).

      Ever heard of Just defence?

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    • Chocoboy – The fact that David killed does not justify Mohammed. At most it makes them both look bad.
      What the post said was slay does not mean murder and what I am saying is that is a lie, slay in the quran means kill. Don’t misinterpret it. Thanks!

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  7. Aida, please stop with this insincere approach. It seems as though you’re trying to muddy the waters seen as Danielle is inclined to seek the truth for herself after Br. Paul graciously took the time to iron out a misunderstanding on her part by sharing knowledge with her.

    Let her seek and learn.

    Being involved in warfare to defend oneself and community from attacks is actually the reality of this earthly life. To try and spin this in order to hinder somebody seeking truth is not a dignified way to go about things. Don’t be a hindrance with this spin of emotionalism.

    And if you teach being involved in warfare is negative then the Trinitarians may give up on Jesus as they believe Jesus ordered the killing of women, children and infants (all of which is not allowed in Islam as they aren’t combatants):

    15 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

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    • See your problem, Islam is supposed to be better than Judaism and Christianity at least it came 600 years after that. And unfortunately it is not. not in any single way. I am not trying to confuse anyone. I am just stating when the quran says slay it means kill. Evidence – your prophet practiced it. Don’t cherry pick verses. Don’t compare it with other Jewish prophets. The fact that they killed does not make killing just.
      And for my reference please show me a verse where Jesus killed.
      One more point if you think Jesus is a prophet, see his teachings and compare it with Mohammed.

      Like

    • Yahya,

      You just compared muhammad to God. That is shirk. Will you never learn?

      Like

    • Paulus, no I didn’t. Jesus is not God.

      Like

  8. Hank L. Birnbaum III

    November 20, 2016 • 11:22 pm

    There cannot be 2 Gods, Paul. By definition.
    Jesus, His Father and the Holy Spirit are One God.
    H20 = water, steam and ice. Exactly the same molecule. Exactly.

    I say;
    Correction
    H20=ice water
    H20=liquid water
    H20= steam water

    H20, like say liquid, cannot be 3 states at the same time. It is liquid and counted as one water either in a cup, pool, ocean, well, bucket etc.

    It is not comparable to your God who is Father, Son and Spirit at the same time.

    Besides we have so many H20’s(Water)

    I have water with me right now and you have another water with you may be in a cup. They are not the same waters despite having the same properties.

    I have the same human properties like you Mr. Hans. Does that mean I am Mr. Hans? No, I am not Mr. Hans but I and Mr. Hans are 2 human beings and are counted as 2 human beings. God is one so said the Bible in many verses. So he cannot be counted as 2 or more.

    In addition, if you are thirsty at the point of death a solid water(H20) cannot save you from your thirst instantly but a liquid water(H20) can save your thirst instantly.

    Solid water is not a liquid water by their name. God the Father is not God the Son by their names. Father is not the same as the Son.

    It is the same Christians who blame us for comparing God with man but they worship man and compare God to H20 when God said in the Bible that “nothing can be compared to Him”

    Furious Stylez

    November 20, 2016 • 11:34 pm

    Paul Williams
    He calls God “My Father and YOUR Father”
    The point is If Jesus truly spoke those words then it’s one piece of clear evidence that the Quran is false.

    I say;
    Father means to have sex with woman to conceive a child or to adopt a child. Father becomes literal or Metaphorical.

    The Jews understand the Father as the metaphorical for thousands of years until Christians made it literal i.e. to have sex and conceive Jesus Christ by the Father or to use in-vitro fertilization to put Gods nature into the womb of Mary to conceive Jesus Christ.

    The Quran will not go into this confusion. The Quran uses the Cherisher, sustainer etc. which a synonyms of Father to avoid Christian confusion.

    If the Father is literal Father to Christ then it is blaspheme because God is not literal Father or Son to anyone. If the Father is metaphorical then the Father is not Father to Jesus alone but to others as well as Jesus said “your father and my father”.

    If Jesus said “your father” it means the Quran is correct because God is Father/sustainer to anyone. It is not wise to use the same synonyms as your argument.

    It is just like me saying you are false for calling your Father, Dad instead of the synonym Father. It is only Sam Shamoun and his disciples who thinks like this.

    Thanks.

    Like

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