Christian Woman Gets Abusive Over Numbers 31

 

This “Christian” lady called Beth Grove of Pfander Centre for Apologetics reveals her vile anti-Muslim bigotry when a Muslim speaker, Hashim, at Speakers Corner makes comments on Numbers 31.

15 Moses said to them, “Have you let all the women live? 16 Behold, these, on Balaam’s advice, caused the people of Israel to act treacherously against the Lord in the incident of Peor, and so the plague came among the congregation of the Lord. 17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. 18 But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.

However, the more observant ones amongst you may have noticed she made no pronouncement on what is apparent in the text: male children and mothers (non virgin women) were killed.

She does not put this down to a “Muslim” mentality. Why not? Because her bigoted ranting and name-calling cannot detract from a plain reading of the Bible. She believes Moses ordered such. She believes Moses is a Jew, why didn’t she put that down to a “Jewish” mentality? It’s obvious:

1. She believes Moses is a Prophet and the vengeance against the Midianites was ordered by the Lord (as a Trinitarian this order comes from Jesus in her eyes as he is considered to be the 2nd person of the Trinity doctrine):

The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Avenge the people of Israel on the Midianites. Afterward you shall be gathered to your people.”

7 They warred against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every male.

25 The Lord said to Moses, 26 “Take the count of the plunder that was taken, both of man and of beast, you and Eleazar the priest and the heads of the fathers’ houses of the congregation, 27 and divide the plunder into two parts between the warriors who went out to battle and all the congregation.

2. It would be anti-Semitic to make a similar comment about Jews – something which would receive widespread (and rightful) condemnation from the public and it could get her into trouble with the law of the land. In effect, she’s a coward and a bully as she’s picking on the minority which is not as well protected when it comes to abuse and discrimination. Sadly, there are a number of Christians who feel they can get away with anti-Muslim comments and sentiment without being called out for bigotry, publicly condemned and reported to the authorities. Muslims have to do more to ensure anti-Muslim abuse is seen as severe and as reprehensible in the eyes of decent people in the UK as anti-Semitism is seen. We can learn from our Jewish friends as they have decades of experience in campaigning against discriminatory attitudes against their people – we should invite Jewish activists to help us with our activism against Islamophobia. Our Jewish friends have a lot of experience and knowledge we can benefit from.

Jay Smith’s Pfander Films Asked to Condemn Death Threat to Muslim Apologist

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Categories: Islam

85 replies

  1. Hi
    I think.it is a load of nonsense I dont read anywhere in the text where there is rape and slavery.

    What the Muslim brother is not doing is looking into society at that time to see how things were done.

    Can I use the koran like that? I doubt it.

    Here is this hypocrite claiming to follow the prophets yet here he is on more than one occasion.

    blaming Jesus for what happens in the OT these false accusations against one of God prophets…slander.

    this Muslim brother better careful that God doesnt judhe him

    then you have atheist and homos talking about the scriptures to back you…cheap.

    Like

    • There were quotes of professors, theologians and a Christian minister in that video.

      And how did you conclude one of the was a homosexual?

      Like

    • So in that society, killing men, women, children and babies was alright?

      Do you believe that the killing of children and babies was right or wrong?

      Instead of worrying about Muslims being judged, you should worry about yourself due to the atrocities you attribute to God.

      Like

    • Hi Faiz
      time wasting yet again jump on a scripture read what you want into it…3 yr old being killed or raped etc.

      I thought the bible was corrupted so why are you adamant that this took place.

      Is this historical?

      is this the writing of the real Torah?

      And furthernore is Moses just speaking to Soldiers?

      Like

    • Defendchrist,

      Wasting time by feflecting again…tsk, tsk, tsk.

      What exactly do you think the soldiers would do with “virgin” girls? Adopt them? You just dont want to admit what the text appears to be saying because it is disturbing and embarrassing.

      As is typical, you avoid answering the question by resorting to a red herring. My view of the Bible’s corruption is not the issue here. The issue is that YOU believe it is inerrant and “inspired”, yet it says that God ordered people to commit a gross injustice in His name. This contradicts every descent more of society and also contradicts the view of a just and loving God.

      So I ask again:

      Do you believe that the killing of children and babies was right or wrong?

      Like

    • Hi
      Its not about admitting, I will not admit to what I dont read in the text.

      What I do read is being done in front of Moses and all the leaders of Israel.

      There are decisions being made about peoples lives.

      This is not like Prophet Muhammad’s men who are pulling out before they ejaculate.

      ( this is where you think taken in war means rape)

      Which where you guys get the understanding of temp marriage.

      And please don’t tell me these Hadith are not authentic.

      Like

    • “What exactly do you think the soldiers would do with “virgin” girls? Adopt them? You just dont want to admit what the text appears to be saying because it is disturbing and embarrassing.”

      they were distributed property.

      quote:
      No. Moses orders that all
      of the non-virgin women, and all of the male children, are to be
      executed en masse right there and then. They left alive only the
      32,000 virgin girls. To be servants? Well, not exactly. They left
      them alive in order to become wives and concubines, spread out
      among the tribes of Israel, with 320 going to the Levites, and 32
      virgins going to one man, the High Priest. Now, think about those
      numbers. If there were 32,000 virgin girls, how many non-virgin
      women and male children must there have been? I’ll estimate a
      total of 44,000. So rather than using slavery to monitor the threat,
      they slaughtered 44,000 women and children in a single afternoon.
      Brilliant example of your point, Copan

      end quote

      imagine that man, preteens going to the high priest, 32 of them.
      now what would they guys to with these girls while they are in their houses?

      Like

    • “blaming Jesus for what happens in the OT these false accusations against one of God prophets…slander.”

      jesus himself would have been viewed as a terrorist

      http://www.bibleinterp.com/PDFs/John2155117b.pdf

      you know that “prince of peace” view about jesus? it is taking a good hiding. it really is.

      Like

    • “I think.it is a load of nonsense I dont read anywhere in the text where there is rape and slavery.”

      pre-pubescent girls taken by soldier of war.
      what does soldier of war do to her hair? he shaves it off and clips her nails, gives her a month to mourn and then rapes her. you believe that soldier of war can stab a pregnant woman to death and cut the necks of 3 year old. okay.
      so how long will soldier of war keep young pre-teen in his house?
      who will she be shared with?
      they keep them in tents like pets? if they were distributed , to whom and where?

      Like

    • Hi Heathcliff
      Read the scripture properly. Where did this all take place?

      Num 31:12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
      Num 31:13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

      There is nothing sexual going on here it’s just your perverted mind bringing that into the text.

      1. All the young boys are killed.

      2. All the women who have slept with a man are killed.

      This is your issue you guys want to know why this happened and why was it ordered.

      Point 1 I would say they were killed so that another generation of men would not rise up to avenge their fathers and their people ( that’s my opinion) against Israel.

      Point 2. These women were killed and the reason given was involvement in leading the men of Israel into sin.

      We know that God send a plague among the people thousands of men women and children died in this time.

      God judged his own people for their sin

      Numbers 25:5…slay ye everyone his men that were joined to Baalpeor.

      Numbers 25: 9…And those that died in the plague was 24,000.

      Please stop acting the God of the bible judges everyone and not his own people.

      The Syrians.

      2Ki 8:11 And he settled his countenance stedfastly, until he was ashamed: and the man of God wept.
      2Ki 8:12 And Hazael said, Why weepeth my lord? And he answered, Because I know the evil that thou wilt do unto the children of Israel: their strong holds wilt thou set on fire, and their young men wilt thou slay with the sword, and wilt dash their children, and rip up their women with child.

      The Medes

      Isa 13:17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.
      Isa 13:18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children.

      In war those days the killing was indiscriminate whether men or women boys or girls everyone was killed,you see this right through history.

      Stop trying to act like warfare was clean and respectful because many time that didn’t happen.

      My point is God judged the nations and he also judged Israel no one escapes when it comes to sin.

      Like

    • Discover the truth.

      the Babylonian Talmud is not the word of God and to be honest scholars don’t have the last word, I think putting your own interpretation on the text as the truth is dangerous especially as the text doesn’t mention “rape” or anything close.

      Where do you guys get this three year old girl to marry or have sex, what man in his right mind is going to marry a toddler for his wife?

      Pushing Jewish Talmud belief on a Christian does not work I am not a Jew.

      Like

    • “There is nothing sexual going on here it’s just your perverted mind bringing that into the text.”

      in bc times what did yhwhs soldiers do with pre-teens?
      yhwhs children had concubines and with concubines you need not make marriage with them.

      you see , if you can put a sword through a pregnant woman, then you can kill her in any way you want.

      quote :
      No. Moses orders that all
      of the non-virgin women, and all of the male children, are to be
      executed en masse right there and then. They left alive only the
      32,000 virgin girls. To be servants? Well, not exactly. They left
      them alive in order to become wives and concubines, spread out
      among the tribes of Israel, with 320 going to the Levites, and 32
      virgins going to one man, the High Priest. Now, think about those
      numbers. If there were 32,000 virgin girls, how many non-virgin
      women and male children must there have been? I’ll estimate a
      total of 44,000. So rather than using slavery to monitor the threat,
      they slaughtered 44,000 women and children in a single afternoon.
      Brilliant example of your point, Copan
      end quote

      that is a lot of distributed property

      those pre-teens WERE spread out

      what does a high priest do with 32 nice looking pre-teens in those days?


      1. All the young boys are killed.

      2. All the women who have slept with a man are killed.

      This is your issue you guys want to know why this happened and why was it ordered.”

      yeah


      Point 1 I would say they were killed so that another generation of men would not rise up to avenge their fathers and their people ( that’s my opinion) against Israel.”

      why didn’t yhwh tell the hebrews to turn the sword on themselves?
      look , if killing 3 year old is okay because yhwh fears that “another generation of men would rise up to avenge their fathers”
      why didn’t yhwh tell the hebrews to turn the sword of themselves because,

      1. hebrews would have children who would do exactly or worse than the nations yhwh had driven out:

      quote :
      Now this came about because the sons of Israel had sinned against the LORD their God, who had brought them up from the land of Egypt from under the hand of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and they had feared other gods

      end quote

      so if KILLING a 3 year old is enough of a justification, then KILLing SINFUL hebrews (moses was a sinner right? the hebrew soldiers were sinners right?) was enough for yhwh to Tell them TO turn the sword on themselves , right ?


      Point 2. These women were killed and the reason given was involvement in leading the men of Israel into sin.”

      so yhwh had to kill over 32000 non-virgins who all led poor yhwhs children into sin?
      all of them were involved? are you sure mate?
      we do know that IF children are massacred for what their parents did, then is it not POSSIBLE that some women were MARKED for death for reasons unrelated to leading yhwhs’ children astray?

      it seems as if yhwh only marked his children for guidance back in those days.
      yhwh like the pagan gods had no other choice.
      poor yhwh

      “We know that God send a plague among the people thousands of men women and children died in this time.”

      this is your god who through moses tells moses to cut open the stomachs of pregnant women and cutting the throats of 3 year old like ISIS

      the pagans did have a better moral sense than your god, they left alive women and children .


      God judged his own people for their sin”

      that’s what you say all the time. but if he were FAIR he would have told moses and the hebrew pregnant women slayers to TURN the sword on themselves

      was moses “meek and humble” when he was POKING sword in pregnant woman??

      “In war those days the killing was indiscriminate whether men or women boys or girls everyone was killed,you see this right through history.”

      that is because of your sick christian mind set which is letting you read the sick christian mindset into how other people conducted wars

      quote:

      and had taken captive the women and everyone else in it, both young and old. They killed none of them, but carried them off as they went on their way.

      that was a time for yhwh to GUIDE them, right?
      you see how you READ YOUR sick christian mentality in the text ?

      yhwh could have REVEALED to these pagans HOW to save INNOCENT life , wait, they did, so yhwh could have INTRODUCED a new “holy ” law, but he(your jesus) practised the barbarity of the pagan gods?


      Stop trying to act like warfare was clean and respectful because many time that didn’t happen.”

      i am just calling your jesus out for his HYPOCRISY


      My point is God judged the nations and he also judged Israel no one escapes when it comes to sin.”

      lol, moses was a sinner and so were the hebrew pregnant women slayers , yet they got away .

      Like

    • You don’t even know if you are real Muslim who say they believe and respect all the prophets.

      The very fact that you are making false claims and accusations against Moses shows me you are not the real deal.

      Why are you arguing over scriptures that you clearly don’t believe is true.

      Like

  2. “You don’t even know if you are real Muslim who say they believe and respect all the prophets.”

    have you showed any respect to the 3 year old children who were cut open by terrorists in the bebrew bible? do you make a 3 min silence for them?

    Like

  3. dc, you are a shameless apologist. you think that 3 year old have no guidance so need to be SLAUGHTERED but pre-teens can be taken because they would be “guided by the spirit of yhwh”

    ?

    3 year old. pregnant women. sick women.

    all need to be SLAUGHTERED

    i ask you an honest question dc, why do you have a problem with what isis does ?

    Like


  4. the Babylonian Talmud is not the word of God and to be honest scholars don’t have the last word, I think putting your own interpretation on the text as the truth is dangerous especially as the text doesn’t mention “rape” or anything close.”

    high priest got 32 pre-teens.

    Like

  5. DC said:

    “Its not about admitting, I will not admit to what I dont read in the text.
    What I do read is being done in front of Moses and all the leaders of Israel.
    There are decisions being made about peoples lives.
    This is not like Prophet Muhammad’s men who are pulling out before they ejaculate.
    ( this is where you think taken in war means rape)
    Which where you guys get the understanding of temp marriage.
    And please don’t tell me these Hadith are not authentic.”

    Again with the deflections? Why don’t you answer my questions instead of trying to change the subject?

    According to your Bible, the “decisions being made” involved deciding who gets slaughtered and who gets enslaved. The virgin girls were divided up among the Israelites. What do you think was going to happen to them?

    Why were the virgin girls the only ones to be spared? Why not the little boys? What did they do to deserve being slaughtered like lambs? Is it just a coincidence that the Israelite soldiers and leaders were all men, and the only ones spared were girls?

    And again I ask:

    Do you believe that the killing of children and babies was right or wrong?

    Like

    • Hi Faiz
      is it right or wrong that children and babies were killed in Sodom?

      is it right or wrong that children and babies were killed in the flood?

      it is right or wrong that children and babies were killed in the plague against Israel?

      is it right or wrong that the Hebrew baby boys were ordered to be killed by Pharoah?

      is it right or wrong that the first born children were killed in Egypt?

      is it right or wrong that all boys under 2 were slaughtered by King Herod’s orders

      There are many horrible and seemingly unjust things that have happened to all kinds of people.

      We are looking .men judging people and also God judging how he sees fit.

      what I think…I dont think you can fully understand the way

      Like

    • he never asked you to answer a question with a question and introduce other situations , he asked you direct,

      was it RIGHT for moses and the hebrews of yhwh to STAB in the belly of pregnant women (maybe 1-9 months) sharp blade?

      was it?

      was it right to CUT the necks of 3 year old or SMASH their heads with a rock?

      yes, i know it is painful for you, but you must answer and expose shot people like beth groves.

      Like

    • Hi Heathcliff.
      you dont set the rules i can ask what I want and to be fair to me every question is to do with scripture.

      If you and Faiz read what I wrote earlier you would seen that I do have an opinion which because of lack of evidence I cant say much.

      You on the other hand add to the scripture your own opinion and accuse one of God’s that you say you believe in.

      “Bashing babies heads against the rocks” in scripture who was accused of that?

      no shame at all coming against Moses.

      Like

    • Hi Heathcliff.
      you dont set the rules i can ask what I want and to be fair to me every question is to do with scripture.

      If you and Faiz read what I wrote earlier you would seen that I do have an opinion which because of lack of evidence I cant say much.

      You on the other hand add to the scripture your own opinion and accuse one of God’s prophets that you say you believe in.

      “Bashing babies heads against the rocks” in scripture who was accused of that?

      no shame at all coming against Moses.

      Like

    • “Bashing babies heads against the rocks” in scripture who was accused of that?”

      what does it matter? the hebrew of yhwh was commanded to KILL 3 year old children. what does it matter if they smashed the kids head with a rock, at the end of the day a life was taken regardless of how it was taken ,and the job was done.

      Like

  6. Hi Faiz
    I dont think we can understand tbe ways and the reasons God judges people.

    Like

    • as the hebrew of yhwh slices the stomach of a heavily pregnant woman and you watch with your jaw dropping. you hear her screams and her fetus drop out, you then see the hebrew trample over the fetus . tell me, was it right for the hebrew of yhwh to do such a thing?

      Like

    • you can’t debate you just talk nonsense.

      Like

    • why do christians such as yourself defend the murders and killings in your “holy” bible, but have a problem with killings in other scriptures?

      why?

      Like

    • where have I defended murders? I asked you about you and Faiz about several biblical incidents and asked if they are right or wrong.

      You make claims so then just provide scholarly works for your arguments instead of trying to accuse me.

      The attitude towards the Torah is quite funny because it doesnt go with the testimony of Muhammad and the koran.

      please produce for us the real contents of the Torah since you dont believe what the Jews and Christians have in their possession.

      Like

    • “I dont think we can understand tbe ways and the reasons God judges people.”

      i can understand the hebrews of yhwh DELIBERATELY targeting the stomachs of pregnant women.
      they saw a pregnant woman and sliced her . they saw 3 year old children and cut them open “like a lamb to the slaughter”

      Like

    • “where have I defended murders?”

      those killings were righteous killings? the deliberate cutting open of stomachs and necks with sharp blades was “righteous love” ?

      “righteous anger” ?

      Like

    • “And furthernore is Moses just speaking to Soldiers?”

      no he spoke of behalf of yhwh and then relayed to the soldiers the mind of yhwh. moses was “meek and humble”

      Like

    • “I dont think we can understand tbe ways and the reasons God judges people.”

      the pagans, jews and christians were judged by God in arabia after seeing all the proofs and evidences. God could have completely obliterated them and today you would be muslim reading arabic, but he chose not to, how come He didn’t ?

      Like

    • you are not making any sense.

      Like

    • “you are not making any sense.”

      r 3 things 1 thing? if yes, then how am i not making any sense?

      Like

  7. DC cannot or will not answer my question because he knows where it will lead:

    1. If he answers that it was “right”, then he will be saying that killing children and babies was right, and no one wants to be in that uncomfortable position.

    2. If he answers that it was “wrong”, then he will essentially become an apostate, since he will be saying that the Bible attributes an evil act to Biblical prophets, which is another uncomfortable position.

    Hence, he and other apologists settle for a third option, which is to ignore the question and change the subject.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. DC, I will answer your questions, because unlike you, I don’t have any reason to run away from difficult questions:

    “is it right or wrong that children and babies were killed in Sodom?”

    Answer: People die all the time from all manner of causes: natural disasters, diseases, accidents etc. Unfortunately, this includes children and babies. But this is a far cry from DELIBERATELY killing them. That is the difference. If Sodom had been attacked militarily and was defeated, there would be no reason to kill the children and babies. But since Sodom was destroyed by a natural disaster, then there was nothing that could be done to save the children and babies. However, if one was able to save as many as one could, don’t you think they would?

    “is it right or wrong that children and babies were killed in the flood?”

    Answer: See above.

    “it is right or wrong that children and babies were killed in the plague against Israel?”

    Answer: See above.

    “is it right or wrong that the Hebrew baby boys were ordered to be killed by Pharoah?”

    Answer: Of course it was WRONG because this was a deliberate act of VIOLENCE by a human being against innocent human beings. The Pharaoh’s act was one of a tyrant. That is why we also condemn the violence of the Biblical Moses and David. Their alleged acts were the acts of tyrants, not of prophets. As Muslims, we don’t believe that they were capable of such wanton acts of cruelty.

    “is it right or wrong that the first born children were killed in Egypt?”

    Answer: The Quran does not mention that the first born were killed. I don’t think God would do such a thing. If anything, he would have killed the guilty people in Egypt, not the innocent children. This is another Biblical story that contradicts the idea of a just and loving God.

    “is it right or wrong that all boys under 2 were slaughtered by King Herod’s orders.”

    Answer: See the answer to the Pharaoh question.

    Incidentally, there is no historical evidence that Herod killed all boys under the age of 2. It seems to be a fable invented by the author of the gospel of Matthew. No historical source from that time, whether Jewish, Christian or Roman, mentions this depraved act.

    “There are many horrible and seemingly unjust things that have happened to all kinds of people.”

    Answer: Yes, and when they involve deliberately murdering a child, decent human beings don’t try to justify it with mental gymnastics. Decent people CONDEMN such a horrific act as evil and depraved.

    “We are looking .men judging people and also God judging how he sees fit.”

    Answer: God is just. God is not a tyrant. You blaspheme God by saying that He commands the killing of children. By your logic, any kind of depraved act can be excused so long as we attribute it to a command from God. How different is your logic from that of a pagan who sacrifices a child to appease his god? People in India have been known to kill children because they thought that the pagan goddess Kali demanded it. Decent and God-fearing people know that such BS is not from God. It is from Satan.

    “what I think…I dont think you can fully understand the way”

    Answer: LOL, that sounds like a cop-out and a cowardly way to avoid answering the question.

    So I ask again:

    Was the killing of Canaanite children and babies right or wrong?

    Like

    • Hi Faiz

      you said…

      But since Sodom was destroyed by a natural disaster, then there was nothing that could be done to save the children and babies

      “natural disaster” thats not what the bible says is it so where did you get that from? .

      who is the author of the flood and the sodom?

      Canaanite children? You muslims are jokers bringing up the same old subjects is boring.

      These are the same people into sex with animals, child sacrifice and witchcraft.

      whats your point? here are people who sacrificing their own children in false worship.

      Like

    • you know “dc” you are a SHOT apologist.

      The Amalekites Raid Ziklag
      1Then it happened when David and his men came to Ziklag on the third day, that the Amalekites had made a raid on the Negev and on Ziklag, and had overthrown Ziklag and burned it with fire; 2and they took captive the women and all who were in it, both small and great, without killing anyone, and carried them off and went their way. 3When David and his men came to the city, behold, it was burned with fire, and their wives and their sons and their daughters had been taken captive.…

      /////

      you see how you are a RACIST and disgusting christian?

      here in the above verses we see HUMANITY
      we see pagans preserving the life of women and children.

      why did not yhwh reveal a law to preserve AMALEKITE baby LIFE?

      in the bible , we learn that a NON_jewish CHILD, unborn and infant is NOT any HARM to the israelites. MOSES proved this in the bible.

      so why did yhwh not do what the amalekites did?

      notice what the text says “WITHOUT killing anyone…”

      yhwh told the jews not to worship IDOLS
      he told them not to copulate with animals
      he told them to DESTROY idols, but he couldn’t tell them to SAVE baby life??

      Like

    • “These are the same people into sex with animals, child sacrifice and witchcraft.”

      yhwh was bringing guidance , right? he already new through the butcher king david that they SAVED the lives of women and children, so why didn’t yhwh give them a bit of guidance? you know, if he did, maybe they wouldn’t have turned out to be the bastards the israelities turned out to be.

      according to the book of chronicles and kings, yhwhs kids DID worse than the nations yhwh had driven out.

      you are a racist.

      Like

    • Hi Heathcliff
      you obviously cant read properly so you throw insults.

      I said previously…So yes God did order the killing of the Amalekites and Canaanites in the bible

      Like

    • “whats your point? here are people who sacrificing their own children in false worship.”

      yhwh could have corrected their worship by telling them not to kill their children. yhwh “fixes” the problem by telling the hebrew racist butchers to kill unborn, infant and pregnant.

      Like

    • LOL, with each post, DC is exposing his clownish nature for all to see.

      ““natural disaster” thats not what the bible says is it so where did you get that from?”

      LOL, so fire falling from the sky would not be a natural disaster? Any kind of disaster, whether a flood or an earthquake, can kill people. And every disaster happens with the will of God.

      “Canaanite children? You muslims are jokers bringing up the same old subjects is boring.”

      Still avoiding the question? The only jokers here are you and your cowardly brethren.

      The killing of children is an “old subject” and is “boring”? Thank you for exposing how depraved your thinking is. Decent people would be appalled by the killing of the Canaanite children. They wouldn’t try to dismiss it away.

      “These are the same people into sex with animals, child sacrifice and witchcraft.”

      Oh wonderful, so now you are making excuses for the killing of the children? So the parents were into child sacrifice, and your god decided to solve the problem by…killing the children? Christian logic strikes again. Go figure.

      “whats your point? here are people who sacrificing their own children in false worship.”

      So, the solution is to kill the children…right. How different is your god then from the gods they worshiped? Both seem to want blood. Your god is no different than Chemosh or Kali.

      Like

    • Hi Faiz
      Does this text say natural disaster?

      Genesis 19:
      24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

      or this
      Genesis 6:
      17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

      no you are the clown.

      And you have nothing to discuss because if the God of the OT times is Allah then it is Allah you are accusing, unless of course you can give me evidence of the real Torah.

      So yes God did order the killing of the Amalekites and Canaanites in the bible.

      In the same way he brought the Babylonians and Assyrians against Israel.

      In both instances the young and innocent were killed so what point are you making?

      I hope you will read what I have said instead trying to put me in a corner.

      You havent even asked anything worth answering its the same old junk you bring up like the last time.

      Like

    • “So yes God did order the killing of the Amalekites and Canaanites in the bible.

      In the same way he brought the Babylonians and Assyrians against Israel.

      In both instances the young and innocent were killed so what point are you making?”

      but we have evidence that according to your own bible that at ziklag the amalekites did not kill women and children . you are exposing how much of a christian clown you are. yhwhs broods had guidance from yhwh about idolatry, slaves, rituals etc etc
      the pagans had no guidance they were “dogs and pigs” yet they , at one time, showed more humanity than yhwhs kids.

      Like

    • “So yes God did order the killing of the Amalekites and Canaanites in the bible.

      In the same way he brought the Babylonians and Assyrians against Israel.

      In both instances the young and innocent were killed so what point are you making?”

      was it right, loving , merciful, kind and godly , to SLICE the pregnant stomach of amalekite woman and then proceed to slice her unborn ?

      answer the question, yes or no?

      Like

    • DC, you keep dancing around the issue just like the cowardly clown that you are. The very fact that you refuse to answer a simple question about whether infanticide is right or wrong speaks volumes about your religion. The very fact that you make excuses for infanticide speaks volumes.

      Sodom, like any other sinful town, was destroyed by natural phenomena, which are under the control of God. God willed it. So yes, people died, but this is a far cry from deliberately killing babies. God does not command infanticide. And as I said, if there were babies in Sodom, don’t you think that they should have been saved if it was possible to save them? But I know. These kinds of simple questions are not “worth” answering to you because you are a clown who has been corrupted by the teachings of your religion. Christians always claim to be”pro-life” but this is just a smoke screen. Ask a Christian to condemn Biblical infanticide, and he will move heaven and earth to avoid doing so. Pathetic.

      I don’t have to put you in a corner. You have corned yourself. You really think that your ludicrous posts make any difference? You are trying to justify infanticide! What is there for me to “read”? All I see is a clown trying to make excuses for I-N-F-A-N-T-I-C-I-D-E!

      You said: “In both instances the young and innocent were killed so what point are you making?”

      Oh wow. The deliberate killing of innocents is WRONG and EVIL. That’s the point I am making.

      As brother Heath has pointed out, the Amalekites actually had better morals in this regard that your god’s hordes. Go figure.

      Liked by 1 person

  9. Hi
    I will ask you a question.

    who is responsible for the deaths of babies by natural means?
    in other words who allows it?

    trying to push me a corner to.answer does not win a debate in fact this is no.debate.

    if you want to get technical the very same God you are holding responsible for the murders of babies is the sane God that you say chose Muhammad to be a prophet as you claim in Deut 18:18.

    So your cousins the jews and yourselves have the same God.

    So there is nothing for me to avoid I have already said the text says God ordered the killing.

    but must seen in the light of scripture.

    Ezekiel 18:
    4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

    Exodus 13:
    2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine

    All the souls are mine God is the creator and he will do what he sees fit for his creation.

    For you to make the assumption that everything I read i agree with is wrong.

    There are things we battle with in our thoughts as we try and make sense of things in life.

    Like

    • quote :
      Hi Heathcliff
      you obviously cant read properly so you throw insults.

      I said previously…So yes God did order the killing of the Amalekites and Canaanites in the bible
      end quote

      you answered nothing. WAS IT RIGHT FOR SAUL AND MOSES TO SLICE OUT UNBORN FROM PREGNANT BELLIES AND THEN SWIFTLY TAKE OUT 3 year OLD children?

      if god told them, then it is was RIGHT , right?

      yes or no?

      Like

    • Hi
      I dont know why you are trying to get me to answer you the way you want me to.

      I’m sorry I answer questions my way.

      You go and find out if the real torah says what you are arguing about in regards to killing babies.

      You say the bible is corrupted so are these stories true?

      Like

    • so it was WRONG for moses and saul to slice out unborn? they should have done it in a more humane way like throw the women off a cliff?

      Like

    • “So there is nothing for me to avoid I have already said the text says God ordered the killing.”

      let me smash you with a question.
      god says that CHILDREN don’t know RIGHT FROM wrong

      in isaiah , the child will chose good over evil

      we have clear cut biblical texts which say children know no sin and you admitted above that children are innocent

      in the bible, moses proved that non-jewish CHILD is no threat to israelites

      so can you tell me why god/satan would COMMAND THE ripping out of fetus from PREGNANT women and then tell saul

      “to OBEY is better than sacrifice”

      why is obeying the command to KILL an infant who knows no sin, better?

      Like

    • let me smash you with another question

      you wrote :

      All the souls are mine God is the creator and he will do what he sees fit for his creation.

      //////////////////////

      Deuteronomy 1:34 When Yahweh heard what you said, he was angry and solemnly swore: 35 “Not a man of this evil generation shall see the good land I swore to give your forefathers, 36 except Caleb son of Jephunneh. He will see it, and I will give him and his descendants the land he set his feet on, because he followed Yahweh wholeheartedly.” 37 Because of you Yahweh became angry with me also and said, “You shall not enter it, either. 38 But your assistant, Joshua son of Nun, will enter it. Encourage him, because he will lead Israel to inherit it. 39 And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad–they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it.”

      Here is biblical recognition that children are innocents, who don’t know the difference in good and evil

      question :

      why didn’t god tell israelities to TURN the sword on these children?

      Like

    • let me explain something to you if you want to swear and call me names that shows the level you are at.

      you are just revealing the spirit of your prophet who couldnt stand the fact people didnt believe he was a prophet.

      As you stand before God on earth be careful how you speak to people especially people you dont know.

      very easy to act tough online!

      If you want to debate issues then do that respectly

      if you want issues with people then meet them face to face so you choose.

      Like

    • I have no respect for infanticide and genocide supporters . Scums like you need all the disrespect you can get. You people aren’t pro life you are fu*%% nazis . You have a dirty racist book which justifies the slaughter of unborn and infants. You people need to be reported to the authorities. Children should not be allowed near you.

      Like

  10. “You say the bible is corrupted so are these stories true?”

    they are true for you. you believe god commanded the literal and painful ripping out of fetus from women who were heavily pregnant. you believe that hebrews sliced necks of 3 year old children.
    the hebrews put isis to shame.

    Like

    • you are wasting my time you have nothing to debate about.

      I already admitted that God gave the order which is the same God that called your prophet which means your issue is with God

      Like

    • satan could also command people to rip open children and rip open pregnant women. satan is also super natural force which is yhwhs competitor. he put yhwh to sleep for 3 days and 3 nights.

      the biggest problem you have is satan. it is possible satan could have told the hebrews to do what the hebrews did.

      Like

    • now you are changing the subject. Isnt that what happened with Muhammad?

      He said it was Satan that gave him the revelation about the daugjters of Allah to pray to them.

      Like

    • “For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie”

      Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, “Are you for us or for our enemies?”

      you see? josh could have been POWERFULLY deluded. he was the one who LIKED burning people to death. BURNING.

      Like

    • “now you are changing the subject. Isnt that what happened with Muhammad?

      He said it was Satan that gave him the revelation about the daugjters of Allah to pray to them.”

      so you admit that a command from god may really be a satanic command from the devil? as moses, josh and saul were CUTTING open stomachs and SLICING necks of UNBORN, infant and children , did they think “why is this god making me do this brutality” ? you probably have to live with the nightmare of your sick canaanite pagan diety yhwh . the sick local god just just like other sick local gods who were BLOOD thirsty.

      Like

    • No! Your prophet is exposed as being false and can’t tell the difference between the Angel Gabriel and Satan.

      The whole point of the video is lie to people and try to make your religion look like it is the truth.

      1. You use the text in 2 Thess in regards to God sending a strong delusion and not explain how that fits into what you are saying.

      The people living in a Theocracy in other words living under the rulership of God.

      In Britian they live in a democracy where they vote in a government to rule over them.

      Where you get this pagan nonsense from when your own religion is filled with pagan rituals that you still carry on today.

      Like

  11. You are so desperate to right you jump from the OT to the NT without really explaining the scriptures you are all over the place.

    Like

    • you got exposed by faiz in this discussion. you proved yourself to be a clown.
      next time don’t tell anybody about KILLING of unborn or infants, you have no standard to judge. the whole point of the video was to show moronic pagans like you that you in the 21century have no standard to judge and tell people about who to kill and who not to kill.

      Like

  12. “No! Your prophet is exposed as being false and can’t tell the difference between the Angel Gabriel and Satan.”

    but we no it can’t be satan because satan is the one who tells people to CUT OPEN the bellies of PREGNANT women and cut open the DISABLED AND THE SICK and the INFANT.

    when moses was SLICING PREGNANT stomachs did he question his god? how about josh and saul? did any questions run in their minds?


    The whole point of the video is lie to people and try to make your religion look like it is the truth.”

    so?


    1. You use the text in 2 Thess in regards to God sending a strong delusion and not explain how that fits into what you are saying.”

    well answer these questions first:

    do you associate natural disasters with the will of god or will of satan?

    do you associate the STABBING and killing of INFANTS with the will of god or will of satan?

    100 % of the time , people will say that KILLING of infants is EVIL and wrong.

    so whatever spirit came to saul, moses and josh must have been the DEVIL pretending to be god.

    “The people living in a Theocracy in other words living under the rulership of God.”

    where was the RULER SHIP when israelities were IN THE PROCESS OF STEALING THE LAND? how under the rulership of god one can SLICE OPEN CHILDREN ?

    “In Britian they live in a democracy where they vote in a government to rule over them.”

    DID THE cannanites vote for their CHILDREN TO BE EXTERMINATED you RACIST moron?


    Where you get this pagan nonsense from when your own religion is filled with pagan rituals that you still carry on today.”

    jesus’ “sacrifice” is based on levitical animal sacrifices. what is the ORIGIN OF these sacrifices? when a god requires the blood of an ANIMAL to appease him, where did such idea originally come from?

    Like

  13. you ask

    jesus’ “sacrifice” is based on levitical animal sacrifices. what is the ORIGIN OF these sacrifices? when a god requires the blood of an ANIMAL to appease him, where did such idea originally come from?

    GENESIS 3:
    21 The *Lord God made clothes for Adam and Eve to wear. He made them from animal skins.

    Work it out.

    Like

    • You support infanticide and genocide and now you want to see animal killing in gen 3? god couldn’t cloth them with animal skin without slaughtering an animal? God formed the meat of Adam, he couldn’t form the meat of animal ?

      Like

    • You need to work out if you would perform the slaughter of children if a naked god with holds in his hands and feet would appear to you and tell you to slaughter children. You being a terrorist nazi would probably go ahead and do it.

      Like

    • what book are the terrorist reading when they kill innocent people bible or koran?

      Like

    • sorry the koran says it the big problem is without the hadith there is no historical setting.

      Go out and fight the unbelievers…who? when? where?.

      at least with the bible there is a historical setting.

      you know who Israel is fighting when and where.

      Sura 30: 1-5 so called prophesy of Muhammad.

      who is the enemy when and where did the battle…Allah couldnt provide Muhammad with the details.

      one translation of the koran says the Romans have won while others say defeated.

      which one is it? defeated or won

      Like

  14. There is quite a lot of context in 2:191, but I know you are a mental christian who probably is on medication. I understand.

    You’ve probably received a severe battering on this topic for the past 4 years.

    I notice that even brother Faiz gave up , because he probably realised he is wasting his time on you.

    did you know that Christians who thought they were the new Israel didn’t care about the WHO or WHERE because yhwhs butchering laws don’t have a SELL BY date

    we know that even the Jewish religious leaders knew that yhwhs laws did not have a sell by date because they were going to violently smash your false god with stones. STONE the idolateror says yhwh.

    If the conditions are met in 2:191 then it would be dumb and foolish not to fight back.

    Like

    • You obviously didnt read what I said. I will repeat again hopefully you will understand.

      I said the problem with reading the koran is there is historical setting ie Sura 30: 1-4.

      Without the hadith you will not know the who the when and where for context.

      In the bible we have who when and where for the context.

      If I just picked up a koran and started reading I would think its okay to do xyz.

      throwing insults does not win the argument calling names means nothing.

      Faiz likes to ask but answer questions

      Like

    • I just told you there is clearly WHO AND WHERE in 2:191 .you clearly have CONTEXT. I’m done replying.

      Like

    • sura 2:191 is not Sura 30:1-4 stick to what I mentioned

      from the koran you cannot tell me who.were fighting the romans where or when.

      that was my original point.

      Like

    • Was it loving and kind for Moses to take a sword and slash open the pregnant women, disabled and infants?

      Like

    • That wasn’t your original point, go and read what you said at 10:41 am

      Like

  15. in the Pauline writings, can you show me where Paul talked about a fish eating jesus with hole in his side? Paul experiences bright lights and gets blinded, but when he tries to make a case for the ressurection, he never references the STORIES in the gospels. does that mean your false jesus did not provide him with DETAILS ?

    Like

    • read Galatians 6:17 i bear the marks of the Lord Jesus…Paul because he followed Jesus received the same treatment in regards to Jesus being whipped.

      Like

    • the problem is eggnog that their are NO DETAILS

      paul says jesus was BURIED

      where ? By whom ?

      Did the early Christians just HEAR from UNKNOWN that Jesus was BURIED? if a person dies , one would NATURALLY assume that the person got buried especially if one is following Jewish tradition for burial.

      but Paul Gives no details

      so without the gospels being READ back into Paul, it seems as if early Christians WERE WITHOUT DETAIL and they just ASSUMED

      like a joke you are reading gospel material into Paul

      I will ask you again, in the Pauline writings , where does Jesus appear as a fish eating Jew with holes in his side? so your “argument” against Qur’an blew in your face when we APPLY same response on Paul’s writings.

      Like

    • you think.you are clever moving the argument from the books to an individual.

      I was speaking about the difference I found between the bible and the koran.

      1. in Sura 30: 1-4 about the Romans we dont know who they were fighting where.

      If you really what to get technical well.

      1. Allah never ever spoke to.Muhammad.

      2. Muhammad didnt even know who the angel.was that spoke to him in the cave.

      3. The person who told him it was Gabriel.

      a. was not present in.the cave.

      b. was makimg a massive assumption.

      And to.make matters worse he didnt even know if what was spoken was from God or the devil.

      Like

    • Was it loving and kind when Moses approached disabled, pregnant and infant and started HACKING them?

      Like

  16. “1. in Sura 30: 1-4 about the Romans we dont know who they were fighting where.”

    wouldn’t the AUDIENCE have known ?
    The Romans have been defeated.”
    3. “In a near land, but they, after being defeated, will soon be victorious,”

    wouldn’t the people who defeated the romans have been known ?

    “1. Allah never ever spoke to.Muhammad.”

    nobody saw yhwh go over mary and impregnate her with his holy spirit
    nobody saw god speak to jesus.
    in the gospel of mark, nobody notices anything miraculous when jesus comes out of the water.
    what is your point?

    “2. Muhammad didnt even know who the angel.was that spoke to him in the cave.”

    neither did joshua
    the angel of the lord which will help josh slay PREGNANT, disabled and infant was thought to be the ENEMY .

    “3. The person who told him it was Gabriel.”

    are you sure? no other proofs?


    a. was not present in.the cave.”

    joseph found the mother of your god pregnant. he was not present when mary was getting pregnant, he was told in a dream that the holy spirit impregnated mary.


    b. was makimg a massive assumption.”

    how do you know?


    And to.make matters worse he didnt even know if what was spoken was from God or the devil.”

    josh’ angel helped him kill women and children. did god send josh a powerful delusion?

    Like

  17. can you answer the question

    Was it loving and kind when Moses approached disabled, pregnant and infant and started HACKING them?

    Like

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