CLASH! Brother Paul Vs Christian Z Speakers Corner | Hyde Park

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Categories: Christianity, Debates, Islam, London, Speakers Corner

29 replies

  1. Christians are crazy about preaching! Stop it for God sake and try to listen to the other side!
    Also, why on the earth do christians keep using Dan 2? At least interpret it as the prophet Daniel did. I believe Dan 2 goes smoothly as a fulfillment about Islam.

    Brother Paul, I have to say keep up the good work. Show those christians how ignorant they are in their own religion!

    Liked by 2 people

  2. pity the “new covenant”did not change much

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  3. You kept demanding that the word “Messiah” has to be in passages like Isaiah 52:13-15 and 53:1-12.

    Can you show me any of these verses that modern Jews use to support their understanding of the Messiah, where the exact word “Messiah” משיח (Meshiakh / Meshiach) is used?

    This is from a Jewish cite, and these are the verses that all modern Rabbis, who reject Jesus as their Messiah (like the ones you use, like Rabbi Tovia Singer and Michael Skobac, that Paul Williams has used in the past on his blogs) would agree with are the main verses that are about their concept of the Messiah who has not come yet; and yet will come in the future.

    http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm

    Biblical Passages Referring to the Mashiach
    The following passages in the Jewish scriptures are the ones that Jews consider to be messianic in nature or relating to the end of days. These are the ones that we rely upon in developing our messianic concept:

    Isaiah 2, 11, 42; 59:20
    Jeremiah 23, 30, 33; 48:47; 49:39
    Ezekiel 38:16
    Hosea 3:4-3:5
    Micah 4
    Zephaniah 3:9
    Zechariah 14:9
    Daniel 10:14

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    • No Jew prior to the rise of Christianity ever thought Isaiah 53 referred to a messiah.

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    • Of course Isaiah 53 is Messianic. Not even the controversial Rabbi of New York has denied that. However, as Jews have always explained, it is a reference to Israel and its vindication IN THE MESSIANIC AGE. Isaiah 52 ends by pointing out that ‘the kings of gentile nations’ will express surprise when the Jews are vindicated. These kings are still the ones speaking through all of Chap53.
      It will be a hard job to educate you. Go get yourself some education.

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  4. “that the Messiah died for our sins according to the Scriptures . . . ” Isaiah 52:13-15; 53:1-12; Daniel 9:24-27; Psalm 22

    “that the Messiah would rise again from the dead on the third day, according to the Scriptures” – 1 Corinthians 15:3-5

    Is clearly in the OT:
    that He would rise again – the Jewish Torah observant disciples, especially Peter, here, in Acts 2:24-32 said that Psalm 16 was about the Messiah rising from the dead. You use Peter to make other points in your methods; but ignore Peter’s other teachings when it contradicts you and Islam.

    the concept of the “third day” is clear in Jonah 1:17, which Jesus quoted in Matthew 12:38-41 and Jesus referred to Himself as the sign of Jonah in Luke 11:29-32.

    Licona does a great job of showing how Muslim da’wagandists “cherry pick”

    Jesus clearly predicted that He would be killed and rise again on the third day (and that He is the Messiah, Son of God, etc). Matthew 16:21; 17:9; Mark 8:31; 9:12; 9:31; 10:33-34; 10:45; 14:61-64

    The apostle is definitely referring to Jonah and Isaiah 53, Daniel 9, Psalm 22 (see above), but also could be including both the gospel of Mark and Matthew as “according to the Scriptures”, since both Mark and Matthew were written sometime between 45 AD to 55 AD, before 1 Corinthians, or around the same time.

    “three days and three nights” was a Jewish linguistic idiom – Jesus Al Masih was dead and buried part of Friday, all of Sat. and part of Sunday – 3 days.

    Licona does a great job here, also showing the linguistic idiom in Esther 4:16-5:1

    Esther 4:16 – three days, night or day”

    Esther 5:1 – “on the third day”

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    • this is a joke.

      Liked by 2 people

    • And there Temple the preacher… Bla Bla Bla…

      It is quite funny that you never get tired of repeating these inane stuff. How stale and annoying they are beginning to sound. Get yourself some education sir.

      I am presently trying to conduct a research on how effective ‘sounding like a broken record’ has been for Christian apologetics. You surely are a fine specimen to begin the topic on. Do you mind if I send a copy of my ‘questionaire’?

      Liked by 2 people

    • he’s a fundamentalist. They never learn anything new.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. It was a very Jewish idea that “one man should die for the people”- even the unbeliever Jewish high priest Caiaphas said that.
    John 11:49-52

    so it was not a Christian invention.

    All the writes of the 27 books of the NT were ethnic Jews, except for Luke, that author of the gospel of Luke and Acts.

    They – the first century Jews and writers of the NT interpreted the OT passages as about the Messiah, even without the word. But the word is clearly there is Psalm 2 and Daniel 9:24-27; and Jesus claimed He is the Messiah and also that He is the suffering servant of Isaiah 52:13-15 to 53:1-12 in Mark 10:45 / Matthew 20:28.

    Most of the believers of the first century were ethnic Jews.

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  6. Paul W.,
    As usual your arguments in the video were on point in showing that Jesus never preached the doctrine of atonement is necessary for salvation.

    I liked when the guy said, “Show me one thing that Jesus ever did wrong!” to which you replied, Lets look at Matthew 15! LOL! This shows how, even at a basic knowledge level, many such Christians have a huge disconnect between their own beliefs ABOUT him what he actually practiced and preached. This childish misperception about who Jesus really was is illustrated by the fact that many Christians think that Jesus did no wrong at all, and seem ignorant to the fact that their own Bible indicates that he was tempted by Satan; he cursed a fig tree; rebuked his mother; and that he likened Gentiles to dogs and pigs.

    Christians like the one in the video are so blinded by their own faith presumptions, that they are no longer capable of taking an honest, unbiased approach to reading the Bible without reading Christian doctrinal theology into the text.

    If one could just take the Jesus goggles off for a moment, and open their heart and mind they could more easily see the truth. It takes more courage to do that, than to defend a defenseless and illogical doctrinal belief.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Jesus certainly did preach the doctrine of atonement as necessary for salvation.

    Mark 10:45

    Mark 14:24

    Matthew 26:28

    Paul Williams wrote:
    No Jew prior to the rise of Christianity ever thought Isaiah 53 referred to a messiah.

    Yes they did; Jesus, Peter, John, Matthew, Mark, Paul (Saul of Tarsus was an ethnic Jew also), Philip to the Ethiopian Eunuch – Acts 8:26-34 – using the very text of Isaiah 53.

    26 But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, “Get up and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza.” (This is a desert road.) 27 So he got up and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship, 28 and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29 Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” 30 Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 And he said, “Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

    32 Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this:

    “He was led as a sheep to slaughter;
    And as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
    So He does not open His mouth.
    33 “In humiliation His judgment was taken away;
    Who will relate His generation?
    For His life is removed from the earth.” (quoting Isaiah 53:7-8)

    34 The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him.

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  8. Paul Williams – please answer the question –

    Can you show me any of these verses that modern Jews use to support their understanding of the Messiah, where the exact word “Messiah” משיח (Meshiakh / Meshiach) is used?

    Isaiah 2, 11, 42; 59:20
    Jeremiah 23, 30, 33; 48:47; 49:39
    Ezekiel 38:16
    Hosea 3:4-3:5
    Micah 4
    Zephaniah 3:9
    Zechariah 14:9
    Daniel 10:14

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  9. Chocoboy and Williams:

    Truth never changes.

    You guys repeat your same arguments for Islam all the time also. Your video on this post are same type arguments you have using since I first engaged PW on his first blog back in 2011. (which he deleted 2 blogs before, and struggled with things, left Islam for a few days, and then came back to Islam.)

    Williams makes the same old arguments all the time.

    But he nor anyone else can answer my question above about the modern Jews who defend Judaism without Jesus as Messiah and are still waiting for the Messiah – (go up to the beginning and see the link to the Jewish Rabbinic cite for Judaism)

    Can you show me any of these verses that modern Jews use to support their understanding of the Messiah, where the exact word “Messiah” משיח (Meshiakh / Meshiach) is used?

    Isaiah 2, 11, 42; 59:20
    Jeremiah 23, 30, 33; 48:47; 49:39
    Ezekiel 38:16
    Hosea 3:4-3:5
    Micah 4
    Zephaniah 3:9
    Zechariah 14:9
    Daniel 10:14

    This is a fresh new question that none of you can answer. And defeats your whole approach in the video with the folks at speaker’s corner.

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    • “Truth never changes.” The irony.
      “Action speaks louder than words.” “Innocent like a newborn baby”. Just two universal truths that will not change no matter how annoying you preach.

      Liked by 1 person

  10. Dr. White fried Lizzie Schofield’s review of his debate with Adnan Rashid. in the middle from around the 27 minute mark forward.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Burhannadin1

    You cannot answer the question either.

    هیچ برهان و منطق نداری

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  12. Of course you are not interested, because you know that it brings into question Islam as a whole in it’s inconsistency with using Jewish arguments against Christianity, and yet at the same time agreeing that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah عیسی المیسح – a completely inconsistent and self-defeating position.

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    • The only people, on this planet, who can defend Jesus against jews are Muslims. We have watched many of christian performances,yet they defeated miserably against the jews.
      2 debates of dr. Brown were miserably failure.
      Craig A. Evans as well was a remarkable failure.

      Liked by 1 person

  13. Which 2 debates of Dr. Brown ?

    Every one I have heard, he demolishes the Jewish side.

    Muslims defend Jesus as Al Masih, but that is all you have, and the virgin birth. (inconsistent and contradictory to the OT and NT understanding of the Messiah.)
    Your views about salvation and sacrifices in the OT contradict truth and reality.

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    • Yaaaawn, oh man, I get so sleepy from reading the same boring, debunked nonsense from Christians!

      Liked by 2 people

    • “Every one I have heard, he demolishes the Jewish side.”
      And how did he do that exactly? By quoting (Matthew2:15)? Or by saying Matthew got the virgin birth wrong since he was quoting the Septuagint?

      “Your views about salvation and sacrifices in the OT contradict truth and reality.”
      A very good example of what the worthless and vapid preaching is .
      You may watch dr. Brown’s last debate with rabbi Daniel, and watch how ignorant christians were, especially by the questions they asked! In fact, that debate amused me so much! That debate was like a show of how a teacher schools his kids!

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  14. They denigrate blood sacrifice in the OT and the cross but they are the only religion that perpetuates it in the Hajj. Allah can’t get enough blood so it seems. Classical hypocrisy methinks.

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  15. Genesis 22, in the test / trial that Abraham passed by his willingness to sacrifice “the son of his love”; “his unique son” – is a foreshadowing of what God the Father will do out of love in the future. John 3:16 – “God so loved the world that He gave His only unique Son . . . shows God is going to do that in the future. God’s character is shown by the “son of his love” and also by being the substitute ram / lamb / sheep. Leviticus 1-6 and 16-17 and Isaiah 52-53 develops this theology.

    God provides the lamb, Himself, (John 1:29; Rev. 5:9; 7:9) because of His love for mankind and because of His holiness and justice against sin.

    Isaiah 5213-15 and 53:1-12 prophesied of it.

    The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit planned it from all eternity past.

    Ephesians 1:3-14
    see the work of the Son in verse 7 – “in Him we have redemption through His blood”

    Even Abdullah Kunde admitted that this is a beautiful theology.

    In Abdullah’s closing statement at the end:
2:25:56 – “ how God gave Himself, according to the Christians, and you know, I mean, that is beautiful . . . “ but you know what, we have so much more to be thankful for . . . air, food . . . ability to stand here and speak . . . we need to be more thankful . . . for existence itself . . . “

    “Now, I certainly do appreciate . . . I do appreciate the idea God being so holy that we must have a mediator is beautiful, in fact its quite humbling, and I will be quite frank with you, I find it hard to listen to that 15 or 12 minutes of sermon, and not feel emotionally impressed.” Abdullah Kunde

    https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2013/08/18/debate-can-god-become-a-man-james-white-vs-abdullah-kunde/

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    • “Even Abdullah Kunde admitted that this is a beautiful theology.”
      Watch from 2:23:50′
      You miss Abdullah’s point.
      Abdullah Kunde meant if the idea moves your feelings, that doesn’t make it a true idea nor a holy one.
      We can list for you what the sense of “beauty” that atheists want God to be presented by.
      Again christians, you carve your idols you desire, then you start looking for the evidences that support your paganism/desires. Therefore, we find many christians have given up the idea of the scriptures’ importance (i.e. once you like an x idol, it doesn’t matter if the “scripture” supports it or not). The importance of an idea comes from how “beauty” it is for your mind set. Yes it’s. You literally worship your desires, and this concept as whole is against what Jesus said
      “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.” (Matthew 7:13)

      “But if they do not respond to you – then know that they only follow their [own] desires. And who is more astray than one who follows his desire without guidance from Allah ? Indeed, Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.” QT 28:50
      Those who’re astray …it’s a common label for christens in Qur’an.

      Enjoy 🙂

      Like

  16. Paul Williams – please answer the question –

    Can you show me any of these verses that modern Jews use to support their understanding of the Messiah, where the exact word “Messiah” משיח (Meshiakh / Meshiach) is used?

    Like

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