‘Jesus claims to have been glorified with god before creation.’
According to John 17: “I have given them the glory you gave me”
So God GAVE Jesus his glory. He did not possess it before being given it. God is eternal, unchanging. No one gives God anything. According to John 17 Jesus passes on the glory he was given to his disciples. They too will have glory.
For John Jesus is no mere man I agree, but he is not Yahweh either, a point you overlook. Arius was right.
Is this a serious website? It seems as though you aren’t even trying to make a serious argument?
Jesus says he was present in and shared god’s glory before creation, and in your quote, he imparts god’s glory to human flesh, i.e. he imparts what only god can impart.
I am sorry my blog does not live up to your standards. Perhaps you should start your own website?
According to John 17 God gave Jesus glory. God gave something to Jesus, meaning he did did not posses it prior to receiving it. Which part of this do you dispute?
Jesus as God’s agent and son has authority to pass on this glory others too.
As he says: “I have given them [the disciples] the glory you gave me.
So your unproven assumption “he imparts what only god can impart” is false.
Before Creation?? Do you realise that there was creation before the earth/world right? There was this small thing called The universe and matter etc..
Also if I give you something that means you did not have it before I gave it to you. Very basic stuff that one has to go to a great deal of effort to misunderstand.
Before the World existed or Creation?? Do you realise that there was creation before the earth/world right? There was this small thing called The universe and matter etc..
Also if I give you something that means you did not have it before I gave it to you. Very basic stuff that one has to go to a great deal of effort to misunderstand.
Unfortunately this chilling response portrays the true agenda of Islam. No freedom of speech, only violence and murder. I do not believe any one’s religion should be belittled but violence is never the appropriate response. Islam has serious questions to answer. Why do so many of it’s followers see violence as a legitimate means to promote their faith? Why are many Islamic nations so repressive in their attitude towards minorities? If there were an Islamic majority in UK or any other western nation would would other religions have freedom to worship, to evangelise and proselytise Muslims. Experience teaches that these freedoms would be removed. Compare Islam with Protestantism, the purest form of Christianity. Democracy, social justice, freedom of religion were benefits that came to the western world after the Reformation. The contrast is staggering. The response to my question portrays the true agenda of Islam. Western Governments need to wake up and Christians must pray for a great revival and for the conversion to Christ of the followers if Mohammed.
First of all, it is the Christians themselves who depicted this man in the painting on the post above as their God but not Muslims. The verses that was inserted in the picture is from the Bible. Jesus clearly said he has God and that true God is one and only and not he(Jesus).
Muslims and Jews never depicted anyone as their God or prophet, so that sensitivity must be respected.
Christians have done violence against other religions including their fellow Christians themselves. Freedom of religion has to be forced on the Christians. Do you remember Arian persecutions? Calvin ordering the killing of Michael? Protestants persecution of Catholics, Mormons and slaves in the USA? Catholics persecution of everyone in Europe until stopped by force through bloody wars?
Do you know that the Christians of the USA disallowed ship load of persecuted Jews of the Christian Europe from entering the USA? The ship went back to Europe and some of the Jews ended up dying in the Germany’s holocaust?
Do you know Muslims allowed Jews and Christians to live in the majority Muslim countries and the proof is there right now?
Do you know Muslims hired ships to go the Europe and convey persecuted Jews from Europe to some Muslim majority lands?
Proof:
——————–
Along with the religious consequences of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation came deep and lasting political changes. Northern Europe’s new religious and political freedoms came at a great cost, with decades of rebellions, wars and bloody persecutions. The Thirty Years’ War alone may have cost Germany 40 percent of its population
——————–
The caption is not inserted by Christians and contains a distortion of Scripture which Christians would consider blasphemous. Instead of attacking Christianity can you please answer my question: Do you approve of violence against those who blaspheme Mohammed and why are Islamic States so repressive and intolerant? If you are offended by a belittling of Mohammed why do you wish to belittle Jesus Christ? These are fairly straightforward questions???
Blogging Theology 
” And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.”
Context helps.
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Indeed it does:
“I have given them [the disciples] the glory you gave me, so they may be one as we are one.”
Everyone has a piece of the glory.
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That doesn’t address the quote – Jesus claims to have been glorified with god before creation.
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And you are left with another problem – how can a mere human being impart god’s glory?
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‘Jesus claims to have been glorified with god before creation.’
According to John 17: “I have given them the glory you gave me”
So God GAVE Jesus his glory. He did not possess it before being given it. God is eternal, unchanging. No one gives God anything. According to John 17 Jesus passes on the glory he was given to his disciples. They too will have glory.
For John Jesus is no mere man I agree, but he is not Yahweh either, a point you overlook. Arius was right.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Is this a serious website? It seems as though you aren’t even trying to make a serious argument?
Jesus says he was present in and shared god’s glory before creation, and in your quote, he imparts god’s glory to human flesh, i.e. he imparts what only god can impart.
You still haven’t countered these points.
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I am sorry my blog does not live up to your standards. Perhaps you should start your own website?
According to John 17 God gave Jesus glory. God gave something to Jesus, meaning he did did not posses it prior to receiving it. Which part of this do you dispute?
Jesus as God’s agent and son has authority to pass on this glory others too.
As he says: “I have given them [the disciples] the glory you gave me.
So your unproven assumption “he imparts what only god can impart” is false.
LikeLiked by 3 people
Before Creation?? Do you realise that there was creation before the earth/world right? There was this small thing called The universe and matter etc..
Also if I give you something that means you did not have it before I gave it to you. Very basic stuff that one has to go to a great deal of effort to misunderstand.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Before the World existed or Creation?? Do you realise that there was creation before the earth/world right? There was this small thing called The universe and matter etc..
Also if I give you something that means you did not have it before I gave it to you. Very basic stuff that one has to go to a great deal of effort to misunderstand.
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Paul, if a Christian portrayed an image of Mohammed with this kind of belittling mockery how would Moslems feel?
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Muslims
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My apologies, too late at night!!! Is there not still an answer to the question, with the spelling corrected!
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Just ask Charlie Hebdo.
We all know the answer
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Unfortunately this chilling response portrays the true agenda of Islam. No freedom of speech, only violence and murder. I do not believe any one’s religion should be belittled but violence is never the appropriate response. Islam has serious questions to answer. Why do so many of it’s followers see violence as a legitimate means to promote their faith? Why are many Islamic nations so repressive in their attitude towards minorities? If there were an Islamic majority in UK or any other western nation would would other religions have freedom to worship, to evangelise and proselytise Muslims. Experience teaches that these freedoms would be removed. Compare Islam with Protestantism, the purest form of Christianity. Democracy, social justice, freedom of religion were benefits that came to the western world after the Reformation. The contrast is staggering. The response to my question portrays the true agenda of Islam. Western Governments need to wake up and Christians must pray for a great revival and for the conversion to Christ of the followers if Mohammed.
LikeLike
Food for the Soul
First of all, it is the Christians themselves who depicted this man in the painting on the post above as their God but not Muslims. The verses that was inserted in the picture is from the Bible. Jesus clearly said he has God and that true God is one and only and not he(Jesus).
Muslims and Jews never depicted anyone as their God or prophet, so that sensitivity must be respected.
Christians have done violence against other religions including their fellow Christians themselves. Freedom of religion has to be forced on the Christians. Do you remember Arian persecutions? Calvin ordering the killing of Michael? Protestants persecution of Catholics, Mormons and slaves in the USA? Catholics persecution of everyone in Europe until stopped by force through bloody wars?
Do you know that the Christians of the USA disallowed ship load of persecuted Jews of the Christian Europe from entering the USA? The ship went back to Europe and some of the Jews ended up dying in the Germany’s holocaust?
Do you know Muslims allowed Jews and Christians to live in the majority Muslim countries and the proof is there right now?
Do you know Muslims hired ships to go the Europe and convey persecuted Jews from Europe to some Muslim majority lands?
Proof:
——————–
Along with the religious consequences of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation came deep and lasting political changes. Northern Europe’s new religious and political freedoms came at a great cost, with decades of rebellions, wars and bloody persecutions. The Thirty Years’ War alone may have cost Germany 40 percent of its population
——————–
Source: http://www.history.com/topics/reformation
Thanks.
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The caption is not inserted by Christians and contains a distortion of Scripture which Christians would consider blasphemous. Instead of attacking Christianity can you please answer my question: Do you approve of violence against those who blaspheme Mohammed and why are Islamic States so repressive and intolerant? If you are offended by a belittling of Mohammed why do you wish to belittle Jesus Christ? These are fairly straightforward questions???
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