Was Jesus Yahweh?

sorry for the out of sync sound



Categories: Bart Ehrman, Bible, Biblical scholarship, Christianity, God

39 replies

  1. Able to control weather – yes

    Able to for give sins – yes

    Accepted worship – yes

    Claimed to one day judge the whole of humanity – yes

    Created heavens and the earth – yes

    Crucified for claiming divinity – yes

    What on earth would give you the idea he was Yahweh?

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    • Achilies,
      Sounds like a Sabellianism to me…..Maybe heresy is your “Achilies” heel.

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    • Nah. Believing in obvious fake false prophets is yours

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    • Ibn ISsam

      How does that sound like sabellianism?

      As for the video, Ehrman is hedging – he practically says outright that jesus was considered a divine entity.

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    • Achilies,
      your are forced by your own exclusivist fundamentalist belief to make such accusations against our Prophet. You may want to read Nostra Aetate in which the Catholic church admits that Muslims (and Jews) can attain salvation through their own respective faiths. As for Muslims, unlike yourself, we respect all of God’s Prophets and we are not forced to make such accusations.

      Frank,
      Dr. Ehrman was describing the process of exaltation and deification of Jesus after his death by his own (well-intentioned but misguided) followers. This is a far cry from Jesus actually being Yahweh, or being in any way a pre-existing divine God.

      Liked by 1 person

    • You may want to read the words of Jesus “I am the way, the truth and the life and no man comes to the father but through me”

      Hint. Read his actual words not papist commentary.

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    • Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'”

      Hint. Jesus had a God and Father as we do. He was not Yahweh.

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    • Achilies,
      ” Crucified for claiming divinity – yes”
      Jesus kept teaching openly in public , at the temple, synagogues, and he said nothing in secret ( John 18:20). However, no one could accuse him in the trial by anything ! How would you read this in light that Jesus had been speaking OPENLY!?

      By the way, many prophets of God got killed by jews accordint to OT, NT,and Quran. Are you gonna say all of them claimed divinity ?

      Liked by 1 person

    • @Abdullah, I presume English is not your first language, as your first point is diificult to understand.

      Are you trying to say the Jesus didnt claim divinity during his trial? You have to be kidding? “You will see the son of man sitting at the right hand of power” A clear reference to divinity straight from the book of Daniel. And understood as such. The all screamed blasphemy.

      The old testament prophets were killed for various reasons. Usually for telling people to repent. Not claiming divinity.

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    • Paul

      God is not a father in islam – you have blasphemed.

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    • Paul, Paul, Paul why do you keep repeating that. Like a recalcitrant schoolkid. The apostle you were named after explains the incarnation.

      Btw McLatchie has a good article on how Jesus has a God and is God.

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    • “Jesus has a God and is God” = 2 Yahwehs.

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    • Ibn Issam

      “Dr. Ehrman was describing the process of exaltation and deification of Jesus after his death by his own (well-intentioned but misguided) followers. This is a far cry from Jesus actually being Yahweh, or being in any way a pre-existing divine God.”

      Actually Ehrman had no clue what he was talking about – his conception of the trinity is ignorant. At around 1:29 he claims that jesus and yahweh are “distinct beings” and that this is the “whole point of the trinity.” LOL.

      Just to be clear, the whole point of the trinity is not that jesus and yahweh are “distinct beings”, that would be sabellianism – Ehrman betrays his ignorance. And you betray yours.

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    • Frank,
      I think Dr. Ehrman knows clearly what he was talking about – the early Jewish Christian understanding of the nature of God and the relationship of Jesus to that God. It is you who betray your own ignorance of early Christology and of NT Historical criticism.

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    • Jesus prayed to Yahweh and worshiped Him. End of.

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    • Ibn issam

      The whole point of the trinity is not about jesus and yahweh being two beings – that is as ignorant of a mistake as Ehrman could have made. You still don’t get it.

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    • Maybe my English is not good, yet I think you got the point.

      You may read ( Mathhew 26:59-60) & ( John 18:20)
      How can you reconcile them?
      Isn’t it very odd that no one could testify against Jesus although he had been teaching about his divinity all the time, and he had said nothing in secret?

      ” The old testament prophets were killed for various reasons. Usually for telling people to repent. Not claiming divinity”
      Good! Why would you think the case of Jesus is different with this long history that jews have with their prophets?

      ================
      Son of man term has its own issues, and I invite you to listen to that debate if you haven’t, and Rembeber! According to your scripture, Jews had already planned to kill Jesus.

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    • Paul Williams

      “Jesus prayed to Yahweh and worshiped Him. End of.”

      Allah prays – presumably to himself…..

      https://quran.com/33:56

      https://quran.com/2/157

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    • ?? How does this reply to my observation about Jesus praying/worshiping Yahwah as the gospels show?

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    • Paul

      Allah prays. End of.

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    • “End of” (sigh) “even though he existed in the form of God. He did grasp equality with God but empied himself and took the form of a servant”

      Now that is “End of.”

      Kaboom!!!

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    • Should be “did not grasp equality with God”

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    • Should be “did not grasp equality with God”.

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  2. I think this video is a great reminder that, regardless of any questions of possible textual corruption in John 20:28 & John 9:38, Christianity has bigger core doctrinal issues to worry about!!

    Liked by 1 person

  3. I remember that James challnged Ehrman to make a debate about this very point.
    About that debate,
    I didn’t like the audience’s attitude at all.
    Justin Bass seemed to be new in debates matter. However, I think Bart made him think twice before he makes any debate in the future.

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  4. Achilies

    October 13, 2016 • 9:55 pm

    “End of” (sigh) “even though he existed in the form of God. He did not grasp equality with God but empied himself and took the form of a servant”

    Now that is “End of.”

    Kaboom!!!

    I say;
    What nonsense are you taking about? “he did not grasp equality with God”

    Who is that? Who did not grasp equality with God? Jesus? Then Jesus is not God if he did not grasp equality with God. Why will God not grasp equality with Himself? Only Trinitarian will have such thinking.

    “Emptied himself and took the form of a servant” Who is that? God? What did he emptied himself from? His properties? attributes? features? characteristics? divinity? God part? etc. Tell me. what did he emptied himself from.

    When your God emptied himself like snakes emptying themselves from their skins they do not want the old skin and if someone still their old skin they do not care. But your God needs his God part that he emptied himself from. He(your God or Jesus or whoever) emptied himself better gets someone to guard his powers for him other wise satan will steal those powers and confuse people into believing a man who said he has a God is God himself to make 2 Gods but the Bible said God is one, only and alone.

    Saying God emptied Himself is a blaspheme.

    I corrected your statement by adding “not” i.e. he did not grasp, before commenting on it.

    Thanks.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Bart Ehrman could not be more wrong….

    ” I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[b] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by[c] that name you gave me. ”

    Power of your NAME… The NAME you GAVE ME

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  6. Yesterday, Dr Shabir Ally showed his willingness to debate Dr Ehrman about the ( belief of Jesus’s disciples)
    I hope such a debate will occur soon.

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  7. “For me, at the time, it felt like an enormous relief, a lifting of burden, a sense of connecting with the universe in a way I never had before. Very powerful!”
    “At that point Jesus became not only my Lord and Savior, but also my best friend and closest ally.” “Jesus was my model of self-giving love…” Dr. Bart Ehrman

    Ehrman openly insists that his was a very real and very powerful relationship/experience. His “burden” lifted, I suppose that emptiness that wouldn’t let him go. “Enormous relief”. A sense of connecting with the universe previously unknown to him. But, what was it that took place inside his heart those many years ago that transformed and shaped the rest of his life? What actually did happen to Bart? In giving this question much serious thought the only answer that makes sense is that he had to be hallucinating. For you see today he maintains that that “message” to which he responded was without doubt filled with lies and omissions, with fabrications and outright forgeries. In addition, not only did the scribes alter the original texts, the originals (which we don’t have and cannot say with certainty what they contained) were derived from the tales of mad men, men who were deranged and suffered from hallucinations. They proclaimed (for the rest of their lives, some under the threat of death) that they encountered their dead master– alive. Their hero spectacularly emerged from death, (a horrible, undeserved, brutal execution), alive, walking and talking, eating and drinking. He even had a hole in His side where He had been pierced.

    So, we must draw the only possible explanation for Ehrman’s claims? He himself hallucinated when he believed in the authenticity of the One described through all the deceit, delusions and lies? These are the same recordings of the One who is illuminating the lives of hundreds of millions.

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