Recently, reverend Samuel Green got pulled up for making a false claim about the Muslim community in Australia – he claimed they had been publicly silent on Same Sex Marriage (SSM). He was shown evidence he was wrong but there was no apology. Pride, perhaps?
Well, I think it could be because Samuel Green may be quite a wimpy bloke even on the net where anybody can be a tiger. A wimpy fella, that’s a hefty claim? I can support my theory with a long standing example. I’ve repeatedly asked him to denounce Sam Shamoun for his abuse towards Muslims, including towards me personally. What did I hear in response? Silence. Samuel does silence well. Perhaps Samuel thinks Christians calling Muslims “slime”, “sewage” and “vile rabid dog” is in keeping with biblical values.
It gets worse. I can accept cowardice. Sam Shamoun probably could batter Samuel Green in a fight so I understand why the reverend may want to stay silent. Nobody fancies getting their teeth knocked out. And let’s be honest, we are all cowardly about something. We all are. Let’s cut the reverend some slack. One of his flock may be reading.
What I can’t accept is poor-thinking. Yes, the reverend was exhibiting signs of poor thinking. B-b-b-but he’s a reverend, reverends can’t be poor thinkers? Shrugs shoulders. Samuel Green, after being shown to be misrepresenting the Muslim community in Australia, writes:
The Islamic community in Australia has its own media machine, as all groups do, that is fine. And it is normally very vocal when it comes to issues like Muslim rights, Islamophobia, Western policy. You will hear their spokespeople everywhere: TV, radio, newsprint, internet, public forums, etc. However, on the same-sex marriage issue this has not been the case. The Islamic media machine has not run the Imams Council Press release. This is not my opinion but simply the observation of the media in Australia.
So my comments still stand. Why have the Islamic media in Australia not put the same time and effort into the SSM debate as they do with Muslim rights, Islamophobia, Western policy?
It does not take Einstein to answer:
- Islamophobia is a more pressing issue for Muslims. When you have a bunch of wild maniacs (some/many of whom are Christians) attacking your women and old folk, burning your mosques down, depriving you of jobs, peddling hate propaganda against you online and on the streets literally as well as calling for you to be booted out of the continent of the Aboriginies you’re going to be expending the vast majority of your time, energy and cash on opposing Islamophobia. 2 + 2! It would be like asking a Jew in medieval Europe in the 16th century why he is not being so vocal against homosexuals or witches. They’d say because they’ve got wild-eyed Christians wanting to burn down their homes and synagogues etc.. One of those wild-eyed Christians was Martin Luther, I do believe he was the spark for reverend Green’s church movement. And Martin Luther was known to use vulgar language throughout his career, perhaps reverend Green just thinks Mr Shamoun is following his church founder hence his refusal to rebuke Mr Shamoun?
- If Muslims were really, really vocal against SSM, as vocal as they are about Islamophobia, you know what would happen! The same bigots (including many of Samuel’s co-religionists and colleagues (?)) would use it as a stick to beat Muslims with. These folks are already babbling on about how Muslims can’t fit into the Australian way of life. They will lap it up for their propaganda purposes. The Australian way of life includes SSM, pre-marital sex and the porn culture. If you and your church buddies weren’t so lazy and cowardly decades ago you guys would not be scapegoating the weakest minority in your “Christian” country where SSM is part of the lifestyle. Point the fingers at yourselves, you took the continent from the Aboriginies and you were so corrupt that sex outside marriage and porn became the norm – not to mention abortion and SSM. Now you’re moaning about SSM like you’re some sort of warriors for Christ. You guys are a bunch of lazy, cowardly, pretenders. You reap what you sow.
Did I hurt an Aussie Christian’s feelings? What you, mean you managed to steal yourself away from your porn stash, your beer, your boyfriend/girlfriend(s), your racist comment you were about to post on FB, some trashy and sleazy TV show or some other form of corrupt entertainment to read this?
Leave the Muslims alone and be real men. Try to teach your women not to parade themselves on the TV all naked and try to teach your daughters not to get all dolled-up every Friday and Saturday night on booze-benders as easy prey for the young male Aussie (Christian?) perverts out in force. Try to teach your young men to exercise self-control and stop being so sex obsessed – 75% of Christian men are addicted to porn (yet you guys want to tell us you’ve got the Holy Spirit regenerating you).
In short, stop babbling on the net about Muslims and go and sort your “Christian” country out if you really care about sexual purity – you may want to actually get advice from the Aussie Muslims and ask them to help you in this regard. It looks like you need all the help you can get.
Australians are claiming to take more sexual partners over a lifetime than a decade ago, with researchers pointing towards a liberal approach to sleeping with people.
Compared to a decade ago, people have become more open to premarital sex, abortion and homosexuality, liberating couples to engage in a varied sex life.
Researchers from the University of New South Wales (UNSW), La Trobe University and the University of Sydney have published a study which reveals that women claim to have taken nine sexual partners in their lifetime, and men claim to have taken 17.5
…’The unacceptability of women being promiscuous is slipping away.’
The study indicated that women are also more likely to have had sex for the first time during their early teens, with 16% of women reporting that they had lost their virginity before 16, up from 13% a decade ago. [Daily Mail]
You know what I’ve written has a ring of truth. It should sting and shame you. You folks are corrupt, your Bible talks about knowing them by their fruits, we know Australia is morally corrupt. You’re only “men” when you’re bashing the weakest group (Muslims). You’re “Christian” women must be real proud of you for bashing head-coverings and doing away with modest dress. You gave your young people and your country up to lustful ways and to make yourselves feel better you make out Muslims are lustful, paedophiles, rapists, etc..
And you have the audacity to ask Muslims to be more vocal about the corruption you allowed to take hold in your own country – the same Muslims many of you want to stop from getting into the continent or ship off to some other country? You people truly are cowards. Corrupt cowards. And you know it’s true. You know everything I wrote here has a ring of truth. You may not admit it because it’s a Muslim writing it and it stings.
I challenge you to do a Jonathan McLatchie and read it out without citing your reference in your church sermons and I guarantee you, you’ll get applauded by the people who have a semblance of piety in them. If you don’t get any reaction, it means you’re preaching to a truly corrupt group or you’re preaching to a bunch of Samuel Greens who specialise in silence when they have to be bold.
Categories: Homosexuality, Islamophobia, Liberalism
Also see: https://bloggingtheology.net/2017/10/19/bishop-converts-to-islam-turns-church-to-mosque/#comment-59192
LikeLiked by 1 person
What horrendous babble Yahya. Particularly venomous for you. Full of so many false generalisations about Christians, men, women and Australia.
When the media tells you Muslims are silent you say nothing. When fellow Muslims admit to being deliberately silent you say nothing. When a Christian tells you Muslims are silent all hell breaks loose. Weird.
False generalisations? Green’s buddies should know about that considering they do it to Muslims all the time.
And for the record, I don’t believe these are false generalisations. In the CoE more Christians are pro gay marriage than not IIRC. That figure would be similar for Aussie Christians.
The majority of ppl would identify as Christians there right or from a Christian background? They are the majority and have produced a den for fornication, abortion, porn and other debauchery.
Don’t get me wrong, this is the same for most countries – certainly for many traditionally Christian countries.
But for the Christian there’s a theological issue as they believe they are the body of Christ and have the Holy Spirit regenerating them. If they can’t produce an upright country then is that not evidence they don’t have the Holy Spirit with them? And is it not further evidence the events recorded in Acts are fiction?
LikeLiked by 5 people
You blame Christians for not doing more in the past, but find it completely appropriate for Muslims to remain silent now. Don’t you see the hypocrisy and illogical reasoning in that?
Why are Muslims allowed to be silent but Christians are to be blamed for not doing enough? Why are Christians blamed for societal moral problems but Muslims excused? I don’t imagine you accept this reasoning in Muslim majority nations? A Muslims to blame for poor education and health standards in Indonesia? After all, they are the majority. Are Muslims to blame for terrorism and extremism, given these are huge problems in majority Muslim nations. Don’t you see how poor your reasonsing is?
And, yes, you generalised horribly. Facts are that our police force has had to establish a deliberate “middle eastern taskforce” to deal with the crimes and problems brought forth by these communities. You might think that is racist but it’s plain facts. It’s a huge problem in the areas of high Muslim population. But somehow Muslims at the victims in all this? Not a chance.
Paulus, bro you’re talking about unfair generalisations when a few days back you took the whole situation out of context and you were generalizing against muslims by saying that they are using Taqiyya to advance their cause due to the fact they sided with the left….if the right wing want to muslims to speak louder against Ssm then they should try to be more friendly with ’em instead of bashing them, it’s simple logic right? If muslims really cared about their “Islamic Morals” and stuff they would’ve certainly climbed on their roof or took on the streets to shout against Ssm but as we can see it’s not the case at all which means they’re thinking about their safety of their families first…let me ask you one question, are you married? Do you have a wife that you love and care for? Do you have kids for whom you spend most of your time thinking about their future?
Yahya this post and discussion is a good example of the consequences of Islam’s lack of a serious doctrine of sin.
Christians believe that fundamentally humanities greatest problem is the problem of sin. Moral deficiencies are fundamentally a sin problem. Since Islam lacks his theological perspective Muslims tend to blame people foremost as evidenced in this post.
Christians have an exaggerated sense of sin. They believe it is a problem for God to forgive it. But most people’s sin is not cosmically significant. It is easy for God to forgive sin. He does not need to die first.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Brilliant rebuke Yahya!
LikeLiked by 5 people
Yes excellent rebuke, it needed to be said.
If christians need our help standing against the moral decay in their community, all they need to do is to ask.
Ask and you shall receive as the good book says…ask and you shall receive.
But first you need to admit that you guys have a problem.
So let Samuel Green – or any other Christian – repeat after me “Dear Muslims, please help us with our flock”
LikeLiked by 3 people
No, the reasons Muslims have been silent on Ssm marriage is because they don’t want to create enemies out of their current liberal leaning allies. It is all about furthering Islam, not tackling moral issues of the day. This has been admitted by Muslim leaders in Australia.
Miuslims and Christians should be close allies in the so called “culture wars” and on issues of morality. But instead of reaching out to Muslims on on equal basis, most Chrstians have chosen to attack, antagonize, scapegoat, and spread misinformation about Islam and pushing their natural Muslim allies far away.
It seems that many Christian Missionaries are more concerned with trashing other peoples faith traditions, than they are with standing together with like minded people on shared morals and values.
Yahya is right it is time for cowardly Christians to get their priorities straight.
I agree. But on ssm the Muslim leaders in Australia have stated that to side with Christians would be to side with their enemies against their current allies (i.e liberals who peddle islamophobia with them).
So who is really to blame?
Muslim leaders are not interested in morals on this. They are interested in their Islamic cause and in this case it is better for them to actually stand with the homosexual lobby ironically. So who is compromising morally?
If you don’t want our help then why are you dragging us into your internal problems?
Do you see Muslim leaders making a song and a dance about Christians not standing up against homosexuality in the Muslim community?
“Yahya is right it is time for cowardly Christians to get their priorities straight.”
the religion tells it followers that all the crimes have been transferred and BEATEN on “god the son”
the believers of this religion fear no divine consequences. they think they are free from divine consequences.
i mean look at one of the frauds here
“Christians believe that fundamentally humanities greatest problem is the problem of sin.”
and whats the solution? bull s to yourself that ALL your crimes have been TRANSFERRED .
Good point. Agreed.
Apologies for the delay. I have been working over the weekend.
Yahya, your concerns are noted but your post has moved well beyond my original comments. Many posts ago Paul posted a poster of three men kissing and the title of the post was something like “The West Today”. A Muslim commented that we will be waiting a long time to hear from the church on this matter. I replied that the church has indeed been very active in protesting against this and that the mainstream Australian media has noted the absence of the usual Muslim presence from the public debate. I provided a link to a Muslim leader being interviewed on this matter and his explanation for the situation. All of my points still stand because they are just the general observations of the media in Australia. The sequent posts have not disproved the comparison between the church’s response and that of the Muslim community.
As for Sam Shamoun and myself having a fight, I would never fight Sam because he has studied too much Bruce Lee 😉
As far as Bruce Lee is concerned your wrong. I think Shamoun is actually schooled in the Scottish martial arts.
“You know, Scotland has its own martial arts! Yeah, it’s called FA-QUE! (pronounced in a profane manner) It’s mostly just head butting and then kicking people when they’re on the ground.” ~ Mike Meyers in “So I married an Axe Murderer.”
Your original comment was that, “Christians are the only ones speaking up for traditional marriage in Australia. We are getting insulted and shut down but we are active. The Muslims have been publicly silent.”
Both Paul Williams and Yahya Snow disproved your comment. They even highlighted a major press release issued to all the Australian media, press, tv, online, etc upholding traditional marriage. It represented all the imams of Australia.
Even you, yourself admitted that, “There are orthodox Muslims who have spoken up and this is great.”
So your comment that Muslims have been publicly silent is false, refuted and disproven.
Try to be man enough to just admit your error and move on.
LikeLiked by 1 person
” When you have a bunch of wild maniacs (some/many of whom are Christians) attacking your women and old folk, burning your mosques down, depriving you of jobs”
You are a complete liar. None of this is happening in Australia.